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Johnny Look

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2nd June, 2007 at 09:00:15 -

I don't like the thumbs system, I think it should be replaced by another voting system like 10/10 or something.
I don't vote anymore because every time I vote, I feel like I'm being unfair, even if I vote thumbs up, I mean there aren't only good and bad games, there are also half-bad, half-good mediocre etc...
I recently submitted a alpha of upcoming game and I received exacly as much thumbs up as I received thumbs down, and I'd like to see how much the voters liked or disliked my game.

What do you think about ?

 
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Ricky

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3rd June, 2007 at 02:35:06 -

I could go either way. I think too many people would give 10/10 to try to balance other peoples votes, making the system pointless

 
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Joe.H

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3rd June, 2007 at 05:08:28 -

Loads of people would still just randomly go to stuff and vote 0.

IMO you should only be able to vote for something after reviewing it, and if your review is removed, so is your vote.

This would then encourage people to review stuff, because nobody does that anymore.

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3rd June, 2007 at 05:28:57 -

I totally agree with that, or at least a thumb/rating should be tied to a comment.

I remember opposing the thumbs system when it was introduced and shadowcaster had a go at me for it. I was still a small boy back then.

 
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Clubsoft

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3rd June, 2007 at 06:17:20 -

I was contemplating changing the thumbs system to the same system used for the articles page, but it'd be ashame to loose all the ratings of the downloads currently on the site.

 
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Johnny Look

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3rd June, 2007 at 06:35:27 -

I agree with Joe.

 
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Peblo

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3rd June, 2007 at 07:02:32 -

I agree with joe, lose the thumbs.

 
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3rd June, 2007 at 07:27:17 -

Clubsoft has a good point there, tho when we went from a downloads-based top list to the thumbs-based one lots of people actually took time to get back to old games and rate them. Of course the site contains about 10 times the amount of games it had back then.

The thing is, some people are actually starting to get really discouraged by this thumbs system, on one side because of the abuse (people thumbing down for fun or fueled by a grudge) and on the other side because it's gotten pretty impossible to make it to the top list now as there aren't as many active members as there used to be. That list has pretty shitty games like fishhead3 on there and they will never be kicked out by actual good games this way. So maybe a brand new start wouldn't be so bad?

 
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Ski

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Candy Cane
3rd June, 2007 at 07:37:41 -

I think it the rating should go by reviews that have been written on the game. I know, I know, I suck.

 
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Hayo

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3rd June, 2007 at 08:04:19 -

yes.

 
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Candy Cane
3rd June, 2007 at 08:06:25 -

Hayo says:
lolol I agreed that you suck but I love you really *heart
Adam says:
:$ ok then ;_;
Hayo says:


 
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Dr. James MD

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3rd June, 2007 at 08:27:39 -

Actually that's quite a good idea. It might get people writing reviews again?

Or not and the whole thing is a disaster so we go back to rating a game based on downloads only because thats all we will be left with.

 
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Candy Cane
3rd June, 2007 at 08:30:20 -

Yes, and with a review its a break down, and you can see for yourself if the game is being judged fairly or not.

 
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Hayo

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3rd June, 2007 at 08:38:30 -

The problem with that is that lots of games wont get rated at all. More reviews would be really sweet tho, I miss that.

 
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Ski

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Candy Cane
3rd June, 2007 at 08:40:33 -

BUT, what if they're like the clickzine reviews? olol, we'd be back to square one


 
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Joe.H

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3rd June, 2007 at 09:29:49 -

Having a game being unrated is just the same as having someone come along and go "OLOL THUMBS DOWN" for the hell of it.

It stops people doing that, because those kind of people won't really bother writing an article explaining why they're voting so low.

Plus if you have ratings directly connected with articles, their vote can be removed if the article is a big pile of crap.

The people that do vote are given a wider range of vote to choose from, sure, saying "thumbs up" is a good way of saying they like the game, but it doesnt necasarily make it the best game ever.

Just because a game has more thumbs up than another doesnt make it better than it, it could just be more popular.

But hey, that's just my thoughts. I only play a game if I think it'll be good, and if it has more reviews etc that say it's good, it'd make me want to play it more.

 
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3rd June, 2007 at 09:41:27 -

Worrabout... Instead of a general thumb system, a rating is tied to a comment and you can see what that person gave the game. You could then chose out of 5 stars you give to the audio, visual etc. side of the game. Sort of like a mini review. Kill 2 birds with 1 stone= remove the anonymity of the thumb system and find out in a concise way how good certain aspects of your games are.


 
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3rd June, 2007 at 10:12:14 -

Yeah that would be the best way.

 
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Rikus

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3rd June, 2007 at 11:18:55 -

"a rating is tied to a comment and you can see what that person gave the game. "

You know what mr james that's really an excellent idea. That way a person who is voting would need to explain themselves on why they voted the way they did. And if needed to be or if its unfair it can be deleted.

Club what do you think about this one?



 
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Peblo

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3rd June, 2007 at 11:22:39 -

Mm, sounds like people now will have to come up with a bullshit story why they voted thumbs down, though you can't change the system to fix the problem, you'd have to fix the people.

I'm for it.

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Rikus

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3rd June, 2007 at 11:28:44 -

And peblo we can even tie it to the admin alert system. If someone gives a crappy reason for the rating the admin will have the ability to delete this.

 
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Peblo

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3rd June, 2007 at 11:34:59 -

Giving the admins even more power definitely fixes the system.

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Dr. James MD

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3rd June, 2007 at 11:38:49 -

Happy days ^^

 
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3rd June, 2007 at 12:35:19 -

Yeah let's use mr James' idea.

 
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X_Sheep

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3rd June, 2007 at 12:44:20 -

I agree. At least showing what rating someone gave next to the comment would help.

 
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Joe.H

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3rd June, 2007 at 13:04:29 -

At least include the ability to remove a rating when a comment is judged to be unfair/no reason is given for the vote.

Also make sure that the vote appears only once whilst commenting.

K?

K.

 
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3rd June, 2007 at 13:22:37 -

I forwarded this off to all the amins and clubby, lets make it happen then

 
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Candy Cane
3rd June, 2007 at 13:26:07 -

k, cute icons to put next to our names too, plz

 
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Joe.H

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3rd June, 2007 at 13:28:08 -

(K)

 
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Johnny Look

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3rd June, 2007 at 13:49:19 -

yay awesome.

 
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Duncan

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3rd June, 2007 at 14:20:30 -

It'd be like the 2001 daily click.

 
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Dr. James MD

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3rd June, 2007 at 14:49:03 -

What about the sub-rating idea? It'd be awesome to see the klik game with highest rated visuals, sound, gameplay etc. Of course they're subjective, but it'd give the creator an idea on what to improve on.

 
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nim



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3rd June, 2007 at 15:41:11 -

Attaching the comments to the thumbs up/down option sounds okay to me.

What does bother me about the thumbs system is that it wants me to immediately rate the game after I've downloaded it. It'd be nice if it was just added to a personal "review queue" (lols) sidebar instead.

 
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3rd June, 2007 at 15:48:37 -

I brought that up a while ago but nothing happened. It's silly to be asked to rate a game just after you clicked the download button.

 
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nim



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3rd June, 2007 at 15:53:18 -

Yea, it's like buying some food and the cashier saying "WELL? DID YOU LIKE THE LASAGNE??!"

 
//

Ski

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Candy Cane
3rd June, 2007 at 16:06:58 -

Lasagne ftw! \/

 
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nim



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3rd June, 2007 at 16:15:51 -

Cashiers ftw! \/

 
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Joe.H

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3rd June, 2007 at 16:16:39 -

Losing ftw \o/

 
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axel

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3rd June, 2007 at 16:56:33 -

Didn't KA have a voting system like that (ratings were tied to comments)?

 
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Hayo

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3rd June, 2007 at 17:00:51 -

yeah.

 
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3rd June, 2007 at 17:07:22 -

"What about the sub-rating idea? It'd be awesome to see the klik game with highest rated visuals, sound, gameplay etc. Of course they're subjective, but it'd give the creator an idea on what to improve on."

That would be very sweet.


 
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Peblo

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3rd June, 2007 at 17:14:24 -

I very much agree, I actually wouldn't complain at all about that idea.

 
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axel

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3rd June, 2007 at 17:36:30 -

I dunno. I guess that's what we have reviews for? It's easier to just give an overall rating.

 
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Peblo

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3rd June, 2007 at 17:52:44 -

No one writes reviews though.

 
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DaVince

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4th June, 2007 at 06:09:40 -

As long as there aren't too much thumbs... Maybe an overall thumbs thing and then some optional thumbs?

Speaking of which, we need an "okay" thumbs thing. Sometimes I can't vote because I don't like or dislike a game.

 
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4th June, 2007 at 06:31:26 -

Obviously, there are several issues with the whole voting/review system.
But when you say you want to attach a comment to a vote, isn't that effectively the same as writing a review?

In my eyes, it seems that though you guys don't like the review system just as much as the thumbs system - so how can we change the reviews and thumbs system to make it better? Would you simply like the word count for reviews to be reduced to a few words so that you literally just add little comments and then score them (rather than writing huge long reviews)?

All suggestions are welcome and everything

 
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4th June, 2007 at 07:01:43 -

Ditch the reviews system, and instead, attach ratings to comments. That's what I'd say.

 
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4th June, 2007 at 07:10:12 -

To the comments themselves? Just I know lots of you like leaving more than one comment so might cause confusion? (Afterall we would limit you to only rate each game once). Or do you want the ratings to have their own comments and then have the comments system seperate? Or what?

 
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4th June, 2007 at 07:14:36 -

Optional voting when you post a comment, and detection whether you voted before already, duh. Maybe make it display what you voted once you click the post button.

 
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4th June, 2007 at 07:16:48 -

Well the rating which was given by each user could appear as a sort of "signature" in each of the comments they make on that game.
The first comment you give would ask you to rate the game (or defer your rating), after which every comment you make on that game
will include a line saying "<User> rated this game 6/10" as a signature, which could appear before all other lines of your signature.

 
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DaVince

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4th June, 2007 at 07:24:57 -

Or just a thumbs/rating icon next to the username. Plenty of space there.

 
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Has Donated, Thank You!Code MonkeyVIP MemberThe Cake is a LieThe Spinster
4th June, 2007 at 07:28:42 -

Right so here is my idea based on all the suggestions/ideas you've given us..

Firstly, we get rid of the reviews system (unless you feel that it is necessary to keep this?), as well as the thumbs system. Then below the comments box, you're given the option to give a rating between 1 and 10 (and then that comment must contain an explantation for your rating). And obviously, you'd only be able to give one rating per game (and also the option to report ratings that are unjust or silly).

You just want it something like that then?

 
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4th June, 2007 at 07:58:42 -

Sounds cool. But it's only us two who suggested this, better ask others' opinions too.

I post too much in this topic

 
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4th June, 2007 at 08:20:49 -

Jimmi's sub category voting idea was good, but only have 4 things or whatever like:

overall - 5/10
graphics - 5/10
music/soud - 5/10
fun / gameplay / bleh! - 5/10

Apart from that sounds like a much better idea, too much comment spam anyways . Forums are for mucking around .

 
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Candy Cane
4th June, 2007 at 08:21:58 -

I could judge everyone's games fairly

 
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nim



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4th June, 2007 at 08:43:22 -

Sounds like a good idea, but I don't see anything there to ensure that each member actually writes something constructive. There are going to be a lot of comments being reported and I hope you're prepared for it! Don't get rid of the reviews completely if there's no reason to; quick comments and 1-10 ratings hardly replaces them.

 
//

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Has Donated, Thank You!Code MonkeyVIP MemberThe Cake is a LieThe Spinster
4th June, 2007 at 09:03:34 -

I can't really think of any other way to make sure that comments are constructive - I'm sure the admins would be fine with dealing with reported comments too. And I do agree with you about not getting rid of reviews.

 
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4th June, 2007 at 09:24:10 -

Yeah let the reviews stay please. Especially bacause the old reviews are fun to read sometimes.

 
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4th June, 2007 at 09:39:44 -

Well, at least allow shorter reviews, then.

 
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Johnny Look

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4th June, 2007 at 11:57:58 -

"Firstly, we get rid of the reviews system (unless you feel that it is necessary to keep this?), as well as the thumbs system. Then below the comments box, you're given the option to give a rating between 1 and 10 (and then that comment must contain an explantation for your rating). And obviously, you'd only be able to give one rating per game (and also the option to report ratings that are unjust or silly).

You just want it something like that then? "

Looks perfect to me.
This would also prevent fake accounts from voting on their games.

 
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Fifth

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VIP MemberGOTW JULY 2010 WINNER!Kliktober Special Award TagGOTW HALLOWEEN 2011 WINNER
4th June, 2007 at 12:29:44 -

Well, you could keep the reviews, but have them worth a bit more than a comment-vote in the game's overall rating, or something.

I dunno if it'd be considered fair, but then taking the time to write a review would make your opinion of the game worth a bit more...

 
Go Moon!

Deleted User
4th June, 2007 at 12:35:30 -

You could convert the current thumb ratings to 10 or 0 votes for a start, that way everything wouldn't be unrated.

 

Clubsoft

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Acoders MemberHas Donated, Thank You!May contain nutsVIP Member360 OwnerI'm an alien!Code Monkey
6th June, 2007 at 09:33:53 -

I can convert the thumbs into ratings, its just very hard to have an accurate top rated games list:

Heres the problem;

You have a game that gets 200 ratings, 5 negative and 195 positive (97.5%)
You have a second game that has 0 negative and 10 positive.. (100%)

With the old/current system, the game with 195 positive ratings would receive title of best game...

However, using a system such as 10/10, with the scores acculimated above, the game with 5 positive ratings would win ahead of the game with 195 as it has 100% positive (10/10) over 97.5% positive (9.75/10), which is a little unfair since it has so few votes.

Someway to combat this would be a minimum vote number before its ranked in there, but its still a little bit of a pain

Another problem is how to convert thumbs into ratings, one way is to average out the thumbs, eg.. if a game had 4 negative and 6 positive, it'd be 6/10 or 60% average, and then have 10 votes of a rating of 6/10, probably the best way to do it without loosing all the data

Idealy itd be best to start from scratch but I'd really not want to loose all the ratings we already have

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Joe.H

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  19/08/2002
Points
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6th June, 2007 at 12:05:05 -

Could you not just convert the top 100 games of each year or something? (or those with more than 50 votes)
it would save a lot of time, as those with less than 50 ratings haven't really had enough votes (unless all of them are positive, which I doubt)

 
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AndyUK

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  01/08/2002
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Game of the Week WinnerSecond GOTW AwardHas Donated, Thank You!VIP Member
6th June, 2007 at 20:03:10 -

I bet there is a very large proportion of dead links in the downloads section.
So converting every score might not be so vital.

Although i guess there would still be a large amount of games with no ratings.

 
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Liquixcat

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  08/12/2002
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VIP MemberLikes TDCKitty
6th June, 2007 at 23:49:40 -

This sounds like a much better system. The thumbs work fine, Club has a good point about it. The problem isn't the thumbs, but the insincerity of voting. Giving a reason for your vote is so much better.

It'd also be nice to make a cookie (or something) to say if they can comment or not. When they click download, then they can comment. When they comment they vote. People commenting without downloading is retarded. Only Admins should comment on "more info please". I can't think of any reason to comment without first downloading.

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