Have you looked at the construct website recently? For those of you who don't know, construct is basically an exact copy of multimedia fusion only with many enhancements such as crazy hardware graphic shader effects and dynamic lighting effects. It is being made by a former clicker who kinda did a Judas on clickteam
But seriously, if clickteam don't get a pretty decent hardware accelerated graphics engine running soon then I think it is likely that they will go under. I mean, I don't condone nicking clickteam's ideas, but if, when I try the construct demo, it is better than MMF2 then I will get it and I will be using it instead of MMF2.
What would anyone do? If given the choice between a superior and an inferior piece of software, you wouldn't choose the inferior software just because you don't like the developers of the superior software. I mean everyone has played DOOM, and John Carmack is a git.
IMO there are four possible outcomes to this situation. Either, clickteam sit on their hands and are wiped off the map when construct is released, or clickteam take note of the serious competetition and design a new graphics engine... which would either be better or worse than construct. The other outcome is that construct has an amazing graphics engine but the coding interface is crap.
Stuckboy
JC Denton: "I know your UNATCO killphrase: Laputan Machine."
Gunther Hermann: "I - am - not - a - machi --"
JC Denton: "Sticks and stones..."
I won't be switching. Unless they can open MMF2 game files. I've worked too long on Tormishire to switch out to something else, unless it was really ossum and allowed games to be exported for OSX and Linux.
I have to admit, Construct does look like a very sweet program. I don't think the coding interface for Construct is crap though - although I haven't tried it yet - from a coding perspective, it could be considered to be a better interface. It looks as though it is a really advanced MMF to me. I love Clickteam to bits though - but I still think there is a lot of work to be done on MMF2 if Clickteam want their product to remain competitive.
Not only does Construct "apparently" have a better 'graphics' engine, but you can create functions, use ELSE statements have sub-events and looks like it has a better debug system than MMF. I think these are the little things which would make MMF2 awesome - but it'd also probably complicate it and so beginners might get more confused. I don't know. I'm sure Clickteam will look at it and act upon it though.
But looks like it's going to be one of those Construct Vs MMF2 battles. The community could die!
MMF hasn't really improved in any significant way since... well, since TGF. Admittedly that's because they got it mostly right the first time, but it still seems like they've been "sitting on their hands" for the longest time and only offering incremental improvements at the cost of a whole new version.
I see Construct as a great thing for everyone, since they have something to prove and they wouldn't be attempting this if they didn't think they could outdo MMF at what it does. I intend to adopt it when it's released, and if CT takes up the challenge to stay competetive, we'll have TWO great apps at our disposal. As always, it's a case of which tool is best for the job at hand.
Yeh agree with you completely - after reading all the information on the Scirra site and forums, there are LOTS of features which I think would make it better than MMF2. Obviously it just depends whether the program itself is stable, has no bugs .etc.
Even if Construct turned out to be the better product, I'd still probably use both Construct and MMF2. But I really do hope Clickteam decide to make MMF2 a lot more powerful. Ooo I can't wait
Its quite odd looking at the construct website, because graphical effects such as refracting water, dynamic lighting etc. that I have put a lot of effort into putting into my game can be added at the drop of a hat using construct it seems, and with no performance drop.
Stuckboy
JC Denton: "I know your UNATCO killphrase: Laputan Machine."
Gunther Hermann: "I - am - not - a - machi --"
JC Denton: "Sticks and stones..."
I wont be switching either. For financial (i.e. brought MMF2 last year and i am poor)and time reasons and becuase i like Clickteam. From who is developing it i think the interface maybe odd to say the least, maybe not tho...
I just had to validate my windoze (again) and download the directx web install (with all the extra files) to run the demos!
Actually the layout of MMF and Construct is pretty much standard for software development tools, such as JCreator and Microsoft software (visual basic .etc). So I'm not sure they'd have much of a chance with a lawsuit or anything - I'm not sure though.
It annoys me how apparently out of touch Clickteam seem to be with the modern world, and how long things take to happen. How long did we wait for MMF2? How long have we been waiting even for Vitalize4? And crucially, how long have we been waiting for hardware support? And even now, the general buzz of the CT Forum is that it's still quite low on their list of priorities.
I know CT don't want to get into the troubled world of drivers and compatability - which is going to happen if you have hardware support. But frankly, hardware is designed to be used. And with OpenGL and various other engines, it's not like they have to go it alone. Plenty of professional games and software are made with hardware support and don't spaz out on most machines. They just use an engine and complain to the engine designers when something goes wrong.
Construct is basically using DirectX 9, so any problems with hardware support can ultimately be forwarded to Microsoft. Just keep updating the runtime, and you'd be fine.
Construct has been designed with power users in mind - something CT also seem to forget frequently. The events are stored in sheets, for example, and you can use Include statements in a similar way to many scripting languages. So you can simply alter one sheet and see the changes manifested in all frames that use it.
I've been asking Clickteam for that for years, yet Scirra added it in months.
Even simple things like object selection are improved.
Hopefully CT will respond by actually pushing MMF.
Liquix, if your PC handles PS2 Effects, could you post some screenshots of their second demo? The only machine near me with PS2 support is the one at work, and I'm off work for some time.
Apparently, they've "managed to backport the lens effects the platform demo uses to PS1.4 which is even older", so hopefully they may update the demo.
Obviously, being hardware supported means if u don't have the hardware, it won't support everything. Presumably by the time Construct is complete, it'll be able to disable advanced lighting and stuff if your system doesn't support it - rather than just not running, as it does right now.
What's gonna make Construct a success is user input, so if u have any suggestions or stuff that u wish was different in MMF2, try mentioning it in the Scirra forums.
There have been loads of ideas that people have suggested which are being implemented - and probably wouldn't have been implemented if it weren't for those suggestions.
I'm currently trying to pester them into promising me an extension which lets you build a 2d polygon model, texture it, assign bones to it, then animate it. How wicked would that be!? Cos you could make a tentacle monster that kinda bent and flexed as it attacked you.
If they have simple 3d abilities like GTA1 or 2, i.e. simple overhead stuff to make buildings etc, and smoothed full screen zoom, and 2d polygon models, I will partake in the professional version .
It's just like a automatic reflex I have to the word "Madness"
Oh and by the way, the people who don't have the required graphics hardware, it is dirt cheap. A servicable entry level card will cost about the same amount as one PC game.
I got a DirectX9 shader model 3 card a few weeks ago, which is able to run most of the graphically demanding new PC games, and even that only cost me £60.
Pretty much anyone who has bought or built a new computer in the last 4 or 5 years should be able to run this.
Edited by the Author.
Stuckboy
JC Denton: "I know your UNATCO killphrase: Laputan Machine."
Gunther Hermann: "I - am - not - a - machi --"
JC Denton: "Sticks and stones..."
Personally, I could care less about the effects promoted in the Construct tech demos. I don't get why so many people bitch about MMF's lack of AWESUM LIGHING EFFECTS when they don't even intend to use them in their games (or when such effects wouldn't make their games look or play any better). What I dig about Construct is the smooth runtime, the cool programming environment, and the fact that it's going to be free of all stupid legacy objects that MMF has had since the KNP times. A big w00t for Construct, I say.
Seems cool. I couldn't try the demos out though, apparently I don't have DX9. Since it is a game creation tool that make use of DX, they should make it very clear what version of DX is needed to run your compiled game.
Defiantly interesting. I always wondered why clickteam didn't make use of even more DX capabilities. Clickteam should at least make it possible for the videocard to handle some of the memory stuff, instead of using the computers RAM.
hmm scirra website seems down. This is the first I have seen of Construct and it seems interesting. I'm making a list of things i'd like to see added as i type.
Take the number of devs working on Construct (4) then divide that by the number of people called Jeff at Clickteam (1), which leaves you with 1. Add 1 to MMF2? MMF3.
The Construct project is illegal.
Clickteam planned a lawsuit against them. (Contract breaking, (failed) hacking attempts on Clickteam's site, email abusement and of course ripping off the MMF2 interface)
I am not sure if anything goes with it now.
Anyway, Please lock this thread.
It's an illegal talk and it's a click site, not a construct fansite.
Nor is there anything illegal about the project in the first place. Breach of contract is a civil offense, not a criminal. And their breach of the NDA has nothing to do with the legal status of the project itself. And while I'm not sure of this specific case, the legality of software cloning (to the point of all functionality, including interface except in certain cases) is well established. And that other thing isn't even a word.
What an odd choice for the website - I wasn't sure i was at the right place at first. There doesnt seem to be all that much information there but it does sound impressive. MMF will look very old and saggy if they pull this off.
Funny, the majority of people on this thread saying construct looks awesome cant actually make decent games anyway, so go buy construct and add amazing dynamic lighting and OMG YOUR GAMES WILL BE AMAZING LOL! Cute
n/a
Deleted User
15th June, 2007 at 10:17:07 -
Oh shit, the click community's most respected member, the almighty LIJI, has claimed this is a naughty product!!! Everyone chip in!
That's just a default platform movement example with random effects thrown all over the place? MMF's examples are just as bad or worse if you're judging them as examples of actual games, so what's the problem?
Have you any idea how many TGF and MMF articles, examples and extensions were built by these guys?
It's one thing to complain that Scirra have an event editor (Which CT themselves admitted is similar to filling in formulae in Excel grids. Oh noes! Sue them!), but what about Clickteam? Their software and community has benefited (and still is benefited) by extensions, articles, examples and contributions made by these people.
DirectSound Object, DirectSound 2, Easy Grid Object, Isometric Grid Object, the Selected Counter Object, Image Manipulator Object, ID3 Object, Advanced Registry Object, and that's just a few of the cooler-sounding ones I've picked out. If you want a full list, look at the Click Wiki. It's eye-opening.
Construct is only a threat to Clickteam because Clickteam didn't make MMF2 into the program everyone wanted. If you've been on the forums, you'll know that many features of Construct are features that have been *requested* by Clickteam's user base. Clickteam didn't implement them, and Scirra did.
The most graceful thing that CT can do (and the better thing for the community as a whole) is just to make MMF better than Construct. That way, no one will use Construct even though it exists.
I also take issue with your comment that "it's a click site, not a construct fansite." Do not presume to tell us what we can or can't talk about on a non-Clickteam forum. This section is 'general chat about computers and the internet', so unless moderators complain, we'll talk about whatsoever we damn well please.
Second little point: it makes a real change for YOU to be accusing someone ELSE of hacking, doesn't it Liji?
Yeah, I hope it doesn't come to that, I was just annoyed.
Anyway, I personally hope that CT do rise to the challenge and shift MMF up a gear, because it broadens the developing options. Especially if they finally give us Mouse Party!
Yeah, it's a control engine that lets you have multiple mouse pointers if you plug in several USB mice. You could have a shooter game with two mice, where one mouse controls each hand!
I haven't heard of hacking attempts by Scirra developers. Why would they even do that? They are obviously smart enough to pull it off without resorting to stealing MMF source code.
I do know that GameSare negotiated with Scirra that they join forces with Clickteam, but they refused. I guess the key to whether construct is a success is this:
They have implemented all the features that would make MMF so much better, but have they implemented all the features which made MMF so good in the first place? The programming interface has some features that are new to click users, but does it include all of the features originally in MMF and hence is it more or less flexible overall? I guess we'll have to wait for the beta before we know for sure.
Oh and Yves stated on the clickteam forums that MMF2 hardware acceleration is scheduled for release in the Autumn, so it looks like its become a big priority for them. Which is definitely a benefeit to us, even if Construct fails or CT successfully sue the crap out of Scirra.
Oh and a few people have been complaining that they can't see the use in dynamic lighting effects. I'd just like to say that I can very much see the use in dynamic lighting, and not just to make the game look pretty. Lighting effects can change the way you play a game (eg. hiding in shadows, or using a flashlight to see in the dark), they can also induce tension, set the mood and even frighten the crap out of the player even when no monsters are around. Sure they are no use for retro games, but since when were retro games supposed to be immersive?
Edited by the Author.
Stuckboy
JC Denton: "I know your UNATCO killphrase: Laputan Machine."
Gunther Hermann: "I - am - not - a - machi --"
JC Denton: "Sticks and stones..."
Hardware acceleration = flicker free scrolling at full screen w/out low frame rates + much more
Why is click working on Vitalize 4 first? After they make Hardware Acceleration, won't they have to make vitalize again to support it? Thats extra work for no reason
apparently hardware acceleration is well under way and will be out this year. Jeff says in a post about build#245 wish list:
"Just before we talk more and more about Hardware Acceleration.
It won't be this next build -- It will be later this year.
I like to keep people down to earth.
One of the reason I have changed the title to my post here.
All these ideas (while great) are not going to happen in the next build -- That being said please keep posting ideas"
I've been playing around with lighting for my game, but the impact on my system when I disable one of the CPUs is huge. Hardware enabled MMF2 is music to my ears, especially since I won't have to pay extra for it.
I did some experiementation with creating 3d models in a 3d editor made in MMF, and then projecting the models onto a plane in real time to form a shadow, dependant on the position of a light source.
It had to be seriously cut down in order to work at acceptable frame rates, but it did indeed work. Just think what we could do with hardware acceleration;
Render the shadow models in hardware, import into an overlay object then use a hardware blur to make soft shadows. Of course this is just speculation but it's awesome to even be able to consider this as potentially possible in a click product.
Stuckboy
JC Denton: "I know your UNATCO killphrase: Laputan Machine."
Gunther Hermann: "I - am - not - a - machi --"
JC Denton: "Sticks and stones..."
I won't ever regret buying MMF1 and I won't be regreting the Purchase I will make on MMF 2 but looking at Contruct I will be regreting being a liscencie to Torque Game Builder, That thing is garbage in comparison to something like Blitz Basic and Dark Basic.
I don't write with grammer I write with feeling...
It looks nice but MMF2 will have hardware support and probably Pixel shader support too. With the added bonus that CT have a LOT more expirence in their type of software than this bunch.
I gotta say I still have reservations about construct, I mean it could still not work out how it was supposed to. But if these guys can implement full hardware/pixel shader support, 2d Newton game physics and all the other stuff then it leaves me wondering why they can do it so fast when clickteam took ages to release MMF2.
I mean, construct has been built from scratch, whereas MMF2 was largely just recoded into C++ (you can tell because some faults from MMF 1.5 are carried over).
Stuckboy
JC Denton: "I know your UNATCO killphrase: Laputan Machine."
Gunther Hermann: "I - am - not - a - machi --"
JC Denton: "Sticks and stones..."
Peblo Custom ratings must be 50 characters or less
Registered 05/07/2002
Points 185
28th June, 2007 at 20:59:22 -
Construct almost sounds like it does all the hard parts of coding for you. Almost seems like a waste to learn how to code well if you can just use the default platform movement.
"Isn't it always amazing how we characterize a person's intelligence by how closely their thinking matches ours?"
~Belgarath
(Note: In case anyone's dumb enough not to notice Joe's sarcasm, they're actually giving a TBC price of £45 for Lite and £99 for Pro)
Ben: I think the way they've managed to implement so much stuff so quickly is thanks to DX9. MMF is software rendered, and I believe it's Clickteam's own engine. Construct just uses a premade graphics engine, so it's a huge lump of the work gone.
Peblo: As for movements, it's important to remember that you don't *have* to use the built-ins. However, if you choose to, then they will actually work. With the event logic like For Each, and While, Construct will be superior to MMF2 in building Custom Movements (i personally don't intend to use their platform movement unless it's AMAZING). Although I think some of that functionality may also be in the next major release of MMF.
Yes,quite interesting.And looking forward to give it a try.
Wondering how long it has taken to program so far ?
A little sureprised it is written by Tigerworks and Co
I'm looking forward to any changes they can pull of with the UI, and I've already suggested a few. Simply things like tabbing, ways to control Construct using keystrokes in preference to the mouse (I hate using the mouse for the coding aspect, since I'm less accurate with a mouse than I am with a keyboard).
Thankfully, I believe their expression editor has a more intuitive system than the 'retrieve data from an object' dialog. I think you can do javascript-like stuff, like type "My_Sprite." and have all properties and functions just drop down for you to select - so you can choose "My_Sprite.x" or "My_Sprite.Angle" and stuff like that. So it's more keyboard-based, but still prompts you for options.
191 / 9999 * 7 + 191 * 7
DaVince This fool just HAD to have a custom rating
Registered 04/09/2004
Points 7998
2nd July, 2007 at 06:05:10 -
So, internally it's more object-oriented, then? Coolness.
I do suggest using JS naming conventions for that though: sprite.angle rather than sprite.Angle.
dunno, but i don't think it's relevant. I mean, if you want to make 2d games you go for construct or mmf2, if you want 3d you go for blitz or db, there's no need for sucky 3d.
Not actually relevant. They might exist without you knowing of them, or they might exist in the future but not yet. Neither is an argument for not supporting mode7-type effects.
"Not actually relevant. They might exist without you knowing of them, or they might exist in the future but not yet. Neither is an argument for not supporting mode7-type effects."
In the dark unknown future the unreal 3 engine may or may not have been ported to multimedia fusion so mode 7 is equally irrelevant
"Not actually relevant. They might exist without you knowing of them, or they might exist in the future but not yet. Neither is an argument for not supporting mode7-type effects."
In the dark unknown future the unreal 3 engine may or may not have been ported to multimedia fusion so mode 7 is equally irrelevant
In the dark unknown future the unreal 3 engine may or may not have been ported to multimedia fusion so mode 7 is equally irrelevant
Actually, even if a proper 3D engine were to be implemented in MMF, mode7 wouldn't be obsolete, since the overhead would be much smaller when you only require simple effects, and retro-style 3D (the entire point of the mode7 extension) would still also be more easily attained.
This has to be the most amazing advantage of Hardware Acceleration: (when they say 'e + g', e = time taken to process events, and g = time taken to render)
"Traditionally, both [events and graphics] are done on the CPU, so the time for one frame to process is e + g. Since the GPU and CPU work in parallel, Construct can perform both tasks at the same time, hence the time for one frame to process is max(e, g). So long as e < g, event work has no effect on your framerate.
Lol, nah, I'm just well miffed at Clickteam, cos everything that makes Construct great is stuff I've been asking CT to implement for years, LOL! It's nice to finally have someone listening
I think they're gonna release it later today (11th), cos it's only 3pm GMT at the mo (and most of their developers are from the UK).
Been reading their blog and everything they have to say - Construct sounds like a proper developer's tool, and I can't wait to get my hands on the beta to see what it can do
Been reading their blog and everything they have to say - Construct sounds like a proper developer's tool, and I can't wait to get my hands on the beta to see what it can do
That's why it's a beta test guys
I'm very impressed with the layout and the way everything works - lots of crashes, but no doubt they'll sort them out. Direct X SDK thingy wouldn't install for me neither, but the program seemed to work without it. Although that might be causing some of the crashes for me..
It crashed when I tried to delete my selection in the sprite editor, when i saved a sprite and when I created 10 of the same object through events. I don't care for it much right now, maybe I'm just too used to MMF but if feels harder to get what I want. Very smooth runtime though .
DaVince This fool just HAD to have a custom rating
Registered 04/09/2004
Points 7998
13th July, 2007 at 06:27:23 -
Geez, release 2 is out already. This app is pretty cool and comes with a LOT of (still pretty limited) objects.
I must say there are some odd bugs and crashes every once in a while, but a lot of them seem to get fixed within the span of less than a week (some I posted were fixed the same day)! Damn, they're motivated.
Hmm, for some weird reason the Construct topic has been locked. I would've thought there'd be plenty of legitimate jobs for the admins to do rather than go round randomly locking topics for no reason?
Anyway, seems Construct has gone open-source now. Could be good news for the bugginess of it all, if anybody with coding knowledge could look at the code and look for fixes. Although it kinda feels like Scirra throwing in the towel to Clickteam now HA for MMF2 is on the cards.
DaVince This fool just HAD to have a custom rating
Registered 04/09/2004
Points 7998
2nd November, 2007 at 19:42:47 -
Whoa!
Part 1: they start making Construct. People are sceptic.
Part 2: details are given. Hardware acceleration and sweet stuff. People become interested.
Part 3: public betas crash a lot, people lose interest because of this.
Part 4: Clickteam comes with hardware acceleration, interest in Construct now seems totally lost.
Part 5: Scirra notices the fallback and go to plan B, which seems to be... open-source!
I did NOT expect this last part. Pretty smart of them.
It better not be... They've had soooo long. And who actually uses Vitalize? More than the amount of people that want HWA?
I had a go on construct. Was very shiny and had a really impressive GFX engine.. but in the end, when i pressed run it didnt do anything, and it has a pretty limited range of objects.
Looks like it could be awesome, if they fixed all the little things. I just really hope CT get there first.
DaVince This fool just HAD to have a custom rating
Registered 04/09/2004
Points 7998
5th November, 2007 at 08:54:18 -
Originally Posted by Alex Wells It better not be... They've had soooo long. And who actually uses Vitalize? More than the amount of people that want HWA?
I would. Definitely. Vitalize apps are the best.
HWA should come before Vitalize anyway, or Vitalize wouldn't have all the HWA stuff...
"The decision to go open source was made during the period the site went offline. This was because we were receiving legal threats from a commercial, proprietary software company - mentioning no names, they know who they are"
I just checked it out. Pretty decent, esp the lighting effect. It can be really useful in horror games. Ill probably switch over for sure after im done with my mmf game.
I won't switch unless i'm completely soure there is nor risk it's going to crash on me for no reason. I don't want to start creating a game, and then realize i cant finnish it because of some crappy bug.
IMHO, maybe because I'm a bit biased towards Clickteam, but MMF2 isn't a bad product. The patches really fixed a lot of the little things that annoyed me (except the part where they combine integers with floats).
Still... it's coz I don't use most 3D graphical effects. I find the latest 3D graphics uglier than 2D. Maybe in 20 years it'll reach the same standards as animated movies have reached but as it is, it's blocky and doesn't really provide better gameplay half the time.
I don't want to start creating a game, and then realize i cant finnish it because of some crappy bug.
I think *every* serious game I've attempted but never finished is because of some crappy bug. Heck, I even posted a few of them online for SOMEONE to fix. They just tell me, "Hey, that's a great idea, why didn't you finish it?" even though the source of the bug is in the event editor in bright red comments.
On second thought, I may just switch to construct. This community has become a barren wasteland with TDC being the only oasis miles around. But if CT keeps up with the feature adding, at this rate, I still think we have a chance.
Disclaimer: Any sarcasm in my posts will not be mentioned as that would ruin the purpose. It is assumed that the reader is intelligent enough to tell the difference between what is sarcasm and what is not.
The reason I wanna switch is that Clickteam have consistently ignored the feature requests I asked for.
I simply don't like MMF as a coding environment, I think they could do a lot more to improve it.
Includes; user definable functions, actions and expressions, maybe even whole objects built using events; more advanced event logic; more looping options; better object selection; better handling of global objects; multiple data types, and the ability to load them from one object to another as we can in scripting languages.
From a coding point of view, I find MMF extremely lacking. It just doesn't have any of the cool features of coding, and for apparently no reason.
It's the most intensely annoying experience having to copy and paste code over, or having a page absolutely full of code because there's no way to modularise it and abbreviate it.
People CAN build awesome apps with MMF, but I find that without these things to make life easier, it becomes exponentially harder.
It's not much to ask, and it would add so much power. But Clickteam have never even replied to these suggestions, and I've been making them for years. Finally, Construct exists, and it does a lot of these things, so I'll switch when I can.
I think the main cause of not being able to use MMF to its full potential is that we cannot edit the source code behind each application.
If we could, there would be very little bugs - as we could edit the raw code ourselves and debug the problem logically. This would probably be the greatest thing Clickteam could do to improve their product, in my opinion.
The feature of 'clicking and creating' should still be at the forefront, but it should be the limitation of what it is capable of. It should incorporate both assets of useablilty and control.
Having just read through Dines' post, I see we agree there too
I too agree with the rest of what you mentioned. I think we need more of a voice to carry forward the motion so that they have no choice but to include these updates in the next build
Originally Posted by DeadmanDines
Includes; user definable functions, actions and expressions, maybe even whole objects built using events; more advanced event logic; more looping options; better object selection;
I have 2 objects planned that would do this for you.
But it took ten years and a third party unpaid coder to do it. Do you see what I mean? It's great that you're working on this (and thanks, btw), but you shouldn't have to, they should have done this a long time ago.
That's the way it works with Clickteam. The coolest features are coded by other people (Overlay redux, the original fastloop, you name it).
But thankyou again. I'll be pleased to hear when they're released
Originally Posted by DeadmanDines But it took ten years and a third party unpaid coder to do it. Do you see what I mean? It's great that you're working on this (and thanks, btw), but you shouldn't have to, they should have done this a long time ago.
That's the way it works with Clickteam. The coolest features are coded by other people (Overlay redux, the original fastloop, you name it).
But thankyou again. I'll be pleased to hear when they're released
Took ten years? Not really.
The request for these features is quite new, and developing an extension like this is a matter of a few months.
The cool extensions aren't really 3rd party, The Bonus Pack ones (And a few others) are official extensions and Clickteam paid developers to keep the source so they can convert it to the next versions of MMF.
The other extensions which are "Free" (I've released some) are just generous donations from other people that simply love that product.
Yes, but you also asked for Active Object rotations and scaling, Sub groups, Layers with parallax effects, Alpha Channels, HWA, better interface, better built in sound support, Alterable Strings, OR in events etc.
They can't do everything in one product, They will probably have your other requests in MMF2.5 or 3, or maybe in a patch even.
Tormi runs a bit slow when everything is on full. I'm hoping HWA fixes that. Better built in (this is the key I suppose, the extension devs do a fantastic job getting MMF2 to do things it should be doing for itself) controller support would be nice. In all these years they've only added an extra 2 buttons to their built in controller support. And no analogue support without extensions.
A lot should have been built in. But since we have people like Liji doing this for nothing then I'm happy. But some core things need looking into. Getting it running faster and getting HWA should be massive priorities, just things to give the game devs a bigger canvas and more graphically verbose creations. Java and the likes are good, but they're not going to make developing any better.
(That said Java is a very important feature for me. Just not at this time.)
I need this pretty badly :\ Mirage's framerate is terrible in some spots (on other computers anyway, Mine's perfectly fine ). It only gets worse with all my nice attack particles .
I'm getting less and less impressed with MMF/clickteam. The support is shocking too. If I ask a hard question, it just doesn't get answered, whereas on scirra's forums my questions are answered by the creator!
Development seems much faster in contruct than on MMF... I think I'll see how MMF's HWA is, and decide what to do then, its all quite sad really .
The only reason im not on contruct right now is that it doesn't have an online object... YET.
Thats a bit mean Alex. I like Construct too but Clickteam has excellent forums. Yves himself answers questions and if he doesn't, Joshtech probably will (unless your question is dumb).
I've tried some simple things in construct, and it has crashed on me two times for no reason. Hopefully that will be solved when version 1.0 comes out...
I think that once MMF has HWA a lot of people will forget about Construct .
Except, you know... Construct is free. By 1.0 most of the bugs should be ironed out, and all the poor kids who can't afford MMF2 will finally be able to make their own version of ChocoBreak that runs at 400 frames per second.
If Construct does what it says it will do by 1.0, the only advantage MMF2 will have is it's large library of object extensions (some which will have to be re-written to accomodate HWA). Even so, new objects will eventually be made for Construct, and if it ever caught up with MMF in that department then the main difference between them will be price. Current clickers will probably stick with MMF2, but new users will likely be few and far between. I mean, what are you going to do? Get the cool dev program that costs $370, or the one that does almost the exact same thing for free?
Construct's physics is very fun to play with. I can't wait to get a better machine so I can play around a bit more.
I installed it on my bro's work PC the other day, and made two kinds of brick. One had a mass of 1 and the other a mass of 1,000.
Then I made a wall out of the lighter brick, criss-crossing them like they do with real brickwork. Got a nice big wall made, then dropped one super heavy brick on top and it got totally obliterated!! Went straight through and sent little inferior red bricks flying!
So simple, yet so fun. In addition, Construct will eventually have support for 3d. Take a look at this:
Actually, it's probably way too early to say that construct will have true 3D capabilities. The 3D Box object used in that driving demo was, according to one of Construct's creators, "more or less a proof-of-concept. It's still a useful object, but it does prove that 3D and 2D can be intermingled in Construct's engine." The box is just a 3D overlay on a 2D object, so you can't do things like collisions with the box body itself (without some serious custom events, anyway). So, while it's true that you can mix 2D and 3D elements with Construct's HWA, something like real 3D support is probably a long way off.
Though I bet you could create something similar to Wonlfenstein with some clever use of the 3D Box object and sprite scaling, but it would take a lot of work.
3D in Construct is planned for after the 2D stuff runs solidly. The box object is a proof of concept in that it shows the plugin SDK has access to the full range of DX9's capabilities. There is no 3D mesh object, for instance, purely because someone hasn't made one yet.
But at the moment, yeah, it's pretty limited, because they're implementing it as an overlay. I'm assuming they'll probably feature a whole new layer type when they work on the 3D side of it.
Hmm free and opensource, music to my ears, especially seeing as clickteam want to make me pay 22.5% more for living in the uk. They even had the cheek to tell me it was to pay some tax that doesn't exist (or maybe Jeff just couldn't be bothered to correct the price to match the current conversion rates). Construct ftw, too bad I already bought mmf2 standard.
Do you feel you are being... watched?
DaVince This fool just HAD to have a custom rating
Registered 04/09/2004
Points 7998
19th November, 2007 at 09:02:30 -
Originally Posted by alspal Wonder how long it will take Contruct to get to a version 1.0 will probably take years.
I don't know about the speed issue. I think Construct is faster in events, but that's only because I know the event code is new. CT have backwards compatability to worry about, whereas Scirra can optimise and tweak the events with no concerns about compatability.
The real problem with forming a comparison is that CT have, so far as I know, never released any details on how fast *events* run. And even if they did, it's doubtful whether the statistics they provide would be on a like-for-like basis with those published for Construct. So it would be hard to compare them.
I can't find the post right now, but Ashley mentioned something about the speed of events by timing how long it takes to process just event, with the display disabled (so it's just a test of the event speed).
It was some ridiculous amount of events per second, but of course it would largely depend on the number of conditions, number of actions, the per-event processing overhead, and of course the nature of the conditions and actions, as well as the number of selected objects being processed.
A reliable, comparable statistic would be hard to come by.
You're taking all this compatibility thing the wrong way.
MMF2 by definition is NOT backward compatible!
You can't open a CCA or GAM file with MMF2, but you can import it and MMF2 will convert it to the new MFA format.
Therefore "backward compatibility" does not hurt the implemention of new features to MMF2.
In construct we trust (or at least i do). I think you pessimistic guys should write down a list of things you would like to have in a game-making program and post it on constructs website and hope that they includes it instead of sitting around here being negative.
The thing i'm most concerned about is this site. Will TDC accept construct-applications? The whole community is called "the Klick community", and i guess it's based on the name Klickteam, but will construct be able to be a part of the klick community, or will constructors be rejected?
Multimedia Fusion has matured into itself, it's gone through around over a decade of updating, and even though it goes by it's roots, its because they work. Construct is new and undeveloped. It has fancy features and such, but the truth of the matter is, even after beta, it will still suffer for a while, of just issues that are small enough to be ignored, but big enough to be annoying.
Not to mention, Clickteam is actually starting to listen to what we want, Multimedia Fusion has never developed so fast in a year, as it has this year. It's amazing to see it's progress happening so rapidly.
TDC wont reject Construct applications, they might not end up in the GOTW, but you can post them. Circy and I have got in many love taps about this, and I guess you could say a "compromise" was made.
So construct apps won't be of the same value here? Then the construct fans will create their own community, and those who change to construct will also change community. is that really good?
I think of MMF and Construct as completely different apps. Same goes for other programs such as "Game Maker" and "The 3D Game Maker", basically because they are. All very similar, but I can accept that each one can have it's own community. Just like different programming languages can. Or using something very different; such as Cakes - Seperated into two communities. One for chocolate and one for fruit... Hmm...
I spose although the site is called The Daily Click... it sorta contradicts that, and typically the site was also thedailyclick.com and was intended for just ClickTeam games.
Since there's a lack in games in general - I'm not really bothered. The site should probably just go 'indy' altogether
... Yes I too am certain that games made with other programs have been posted here. IF I ever made a game in something other than MMF but had a similar style to the games here I'd try and post it.
With HWA around the corner and that new fancy physics engine (Clickteam hear me well! This needs to be built into the next version of MMF! Or do your own ) MMF has really picked up. I suppose I'm thankful for Construct in that they're really pushing Clickteam to make a good application even better.
especially seeing as clickteam want to make me pay 22.5% more for living in the uk. They even had the cheek to tell me it was to pay some tax that doesn't exist
As has been explained to you every time you have complained about this in the chatroom over the last few months, the prices are different because of the tax added to their product in the UK (which, no matter how many times you insist otherwise, does exist), and because of the difference in price of manufacture of MMF in America and Europe.
As soon as it gets stable, I do think clickteam will have a lot more work to do because not only construct already have features like hardware acceleration and a built in physics engine (which is awesome, I already tested it), but also because it's free.
Originally Posted by DeadmanDines I dunno, I vaguely recall Circy or someone making the point that this is called 'Create-Games.com', and people have posted C++ games here before.
I'd be very surprised if there was a problem posting Construct apps here. If it finds its feet, then I intend to.
That was me, jumping over Circy for saying that wwww.Create-Games.com says that the site accepts all indie games, as long as the respective creator is the one who submits it. The site being called The Daily Click contradicts that argument though, which is why the compromise of submitting any indie game being allowed, but with limitations such as GOTW, was set down.
Nowadays I can not choose between MMF2 and Construct. I think the engine of MMF2 (also with HWA) is too old today. It's like TGF but with some more new things. However unlike Clickteam says you can not really make "any kind of 2D game" with it. I mean for example it's very hard to make a good and stable RTS with it.
Construct seems to be good but it's not ready yet (and it crashes often on my computer). But I think even Construct beta is forerunner in many ways. Working HWA with many new features and movements is very good.
Anyway I hope Scirra will continue developing Construct. Maybe that will get Clickteam to make something big... and better?
My opinion is that MMF2 is klik n' play v2 with a diferente interface while Construct is a buggy version of what MMF2 should've been in the first place. I must say that it's amazing to see Construct evolving so quickly, as it's very far from the broken and imcomplete piece of software it was some time ago.
Is it too late to ask for a comparative list of differentiating features that sets MMF2 and Construct apart from each other? I've taken a look at Construct and discovered something new to figure out that's a lot like MMF2 but with what may be more "programmer-friendly" terms slapped on buttons.
I'm sure its as good as MMF. But I'd also like to determine what's the best thing for me to use when starting up on a new project. Stick with the old, or bring in the new?
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I feel so inadequate.
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