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mastavasta



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22nd June, 2011 at 03:20:30 -

Sorry, double post.

Edited by mastavasta

 
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Jacob!



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22nd June, 2011 at 04:23:26 -

The problem with this competition is that the engine is done, all that is left is making a game out of it, which is by far the hardest part. Finishing a game is a lot more effort than anything else. A more ideal competition would be like Clickteam's Wild Widget competition, where users were told to make the best, most useful and customisable widgets. Widgets, for those that don't know, are objects with the code inside its behaviour, so you can just drop the object in and its functionality is already implemented. Nifflas won that competition with a particle effects widget, and I got third place with a grid movement engine. There were platforming engines, a file association widget, 3D menus, screen shaker widgets, and more. One guy even made a whole level editor widget (and got second place)! There were so many entries because people could do the most fun part of a game, and not have to worry about polishing graphics or finding shoddy sounds online. It was just raw code that could be adapted and expanded on to benefit everyone

 
Have you even been far as decided to use even go want to do look more like?

s-m-r

Slow-Motion Riot

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Candle
22nd June, 2011 at 12:24:53 -

To be honest, I'm tired of seeing half-finished projects of games. I want to see a finished game, not just a component. I'm guilty enough of that myself, so I know how easy it is to simply drop a project in the works. Even if a game entertains me for just a half an hour, I'll happily play it and offer feedback.

By removing technical barriers but still maintaining some boundaries to a process, there's a better chance something will be finished. And to become a BETTER game maker, one ought to gather smaller successes under their belt, gaining good habits on staying focused, on task, and getting things done. That's the whole reason the idea popped into my head, and why I suggested it.

To cater more to the hardcore folks...What about including one engine, and half a dozen or so of the available widgets? The game-maker can pick and choose which of these six they want to implement in their game, and in what capacity.

EDIT: or have two different levels of the competition: one with a static engine (with the exception of the variables Strife indicated), and another "advanced" level where people can have much more flexibility in the components. Different sets of competitions, and the users can select for themselves where they want to participate.

Otherwise, this idea can be scrapped and someone can suggest another idea: widget-making (which takes some actual coding skills, I assume, and by default alienates the majority of the community) or otherwise.

Edited by s-m-r

 
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Disthron



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22nd June, 2011 at 12:51:13 -

@Jacob The most fun part of making a game is a very subjective thing dood. Differant people like differant aspects of game making. Some people like making the graphics, some people like designing the mechanicks, there have been plently of coding comps and there will be plenty more. I think we can at least give this a try.

@Jess Bowers Your engine is so awsome... and it even has moving platforms! Honestly of all the platform engines you see uploaded here that is one thing almost no one includes, and it's one of the basic features of a platformer.

Anyway, I've only been playing round with Jesses engine for a couple of minutes so fare but it seems really sollid. For the purpose of the compitition though I think some things should be converted from using spesific objects to using groups. For instance I just changed the vertical/horazontal moving platformes to use 2 groups (one for Vertical moving platforms and one for Horizontal moving platformes). This way people can make differant moving platforms by just cloning the object and changing the graphic. It seems to work really well. As for other stuff to be converted, perhaps ladders and convayor belts?

I'd also recommend using some counters so people can easaly change things like waly/run speed, jump strength and gravity by just changing those values. So they can make the charecter move the way they wont without having to change the engine.

Anyway, those are my sujestions. I strongly recomment people check out Jesses engine, it has a couple of small glitches but nothing that can't be easaly worked around. I am going to upload my Mode7 engine that I was working on, not sure how much people will like it but it will certanly be something differant if we go with that one.

 
"Oh, my god! A lightning monster just ripped out this poor woman's eyes, and your mocking her shrubbery!" - The Spoony One

Sketchy

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22nd June, 2011 at 13:02:44 -

I don't think it's fair to assume that anything requiring actual coding skills will alienate the majority of the community.

Anyway, a few alternatives:

A.) Could have a theme-based contest, and if people want to use a ready-made engine, that's up to them, but it's not compulsory.

Could have an engine-based contest, but give people more choice:
B.) Choose one of a few specified engines (1 x platformer, 1 x shooter, 1 x RPG, etc)
C.) Choose any engine from the downloads section of TDC.

Failing that, just pick an engine and go with it - it seems like there's a fair amount of interest.

 
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Disthron



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22nd June, 2011 at 13:36:35 -

@Sketchy I don't think it's fair to say that ether. It's just that making the engine is such a large part of the prosses that by the time it's done the competition is more ether over and or you have run out of steam. By selecting a ready made engine you get a running start, so to speak.

 
"Oh, my god! A lightning monster just ripped out this poor woman's eyes, and your mocking her shrubbery!" - The Spoony One

Sketchy

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22nd June, 2011 at 14:05:10 -

Sorry, that comment was aimed more at SMR (you just your comment in first).
I don't have any problem with people using ready-made engines - the advantages are obvious. I just don't see what we have to gain by making it compulsory.
But again, if that's what the majority of people want, then do that

 
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s-m-r

Slow-Motion Riot

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Candle
22nd June, 2011 at 17:33:07 -

My initial suggestion was not about making the next best Klik game, it's about getting more people involved and finishing games (even if they suck). That's where I was coming from in terms of being in opposition to the widget competition.

And I have to admit (if it's not obvious) that my statement about making widgets/"alienating the majority" was personally biased. I have no idea of where to start with making one, and my assumption is that it would be easier to make a finished game than a widget and I personally don't have time to learn how to do some coding in C++ or whatever.

 
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Sketchy

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22nd June, 2011 at 18:21:34 -

I think you're misunderstanding what a widget is.
They don't require any C++ code, or anything like that.
They're exactly like any other MMF2 file, except that all the code is contained in an object's behavior, so users can just copy and paste that object into their game.
To be honest, I'm really not a fan of widgets - mainly because behaviors suck. I'd much rather the widgets were just released as normal example files, with the code contained in a single group within the main event list. I really hate the fact that you can't edit behaviors in the event list editor, and I think it's a very bad idea to have code scattered all over the place anyway. Plus you're very limited in what you can do in a widget, because you have no control of when the events in a behavior are run, relative to the other events.
So yeah, I'm not recommending that for a competition.

It would be nice to have a competition requiring a more balanced mix of design, coding, and graphics.

 
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s-m-r

Slow-Motion Riot

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Candle
22nd June, 2011 at 18:58:21 -

Hahaha! Yup, I totally misunderstood what a widget is. Thanks for clarifying for me.

Sorry for potentially derailing...!

 
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Sephirenn

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22nd June, 2011 at 19:24:12 -

I'm not trying to get people mad here, but wasn't the whole point of this competition to use an already made engine? If there are one or two people that disagree, you can start a separate compo where you can make your own engine. But what makes this competition unique is that the 'theme' is that you MUST use an already made engine.

Now, of course you should be able to edit some basic values, like speed/acceleration, and maybe even add in your own AI on top of the engine if you want, but the base engine should remain untouched.

At this point there are so many opinions that everyone is politely arguing their own case. I think the owner of this compo needs to just list out the rules and that's what we do (even if they are different than I am suggesting above). That way we can get started on either our games (if an engine is picked), or at least voting on what engine we are going to use. All of this 'arguing', however polite, is getting us nowhere.

 
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Strife

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22nd June, 2011 at 19:40:33 -

Idea: Maybe we could hold a competition for creating engines from scratch first, and then when that competition is over, the winner's engine would be used in the following competition where entrants have to use it to build a complete game. In a way, it would be like a collaboration of sorts.

 

Sketchy

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22nd June, 2011 at 20:40:28 -

@Sephirenn -
I don't think we're in any great rush to start the competition - nothing wrong with giving people a few days to suggest ideas, and a few days to find out about the competition (instead of hearing that there had been a competition, but they missed it).

@Strife -
OMC suggested that already

 
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lembi2001



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23rd June, 2011 at 14:19:58 -

Just to stick my two penneth in:

I think if it was a compo where the enigne was already done a lot more people (including myself) would be more tempted to participate.

There would of course need to be strict guidelines on what can be done to the engine but i think that this compo could work really well.

My suggestions for game types:

Top Down Racer (with or without realistic car handling)
Shoot-em-up
RTS?? Not sure how well this might work but we'll see

Do we have any user created racer engines?

 
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Don Luciano

Heavy combat pancake

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23rd June, 2011 at 15:29:17 -


Originally Posted by Strife
Idea: Maybe we could hold a competition for creating engines from scratch first, and then when that competition is over, the winner's engine would be used in the following competition where entrants have to use it to build a complete game. In a way, it would be like a collaboration of sorts.



I think this is by far the best idea, also it may be good afterwards for people to choose from the top 3 or 5 engines to base their game. And not just the 1st placed.


 
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