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J.C



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25th December, 2015 at 25/12/2015 00:47:27 -

Just out of curiosity. I know this is supposedly a common tactic that some MMF users do when they develop their games?



 
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Airflow

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26th December, 2015 at 26/12/2015 07:43:55 -

That's very near exactly my technique. Only it kinda breaks when you do things like having a level editor. It's easier to code a level editor separately, and you may wish to use the editor again somewhere else. Suppose you have a graphic editing tool, I mean, you wouldn't build high octane photoshop utilities into your game. It's kinda like that.

 
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LordHannu



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27th December, 2015 at 27/12/2015 18:15:18 -

I like doing single frames. If the game has same rules on the frame why not.

 
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Dr James 2



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27th December, 2015 at 27/12/2015 19:43:23 -

My current project is all on a single frame. I find it exciting.

 
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AmyS3

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28th December, 2015 at 28/12/2015 04:12:41 -

im a single frame builder as well. i think most of us are.
but i do put menus and sorts into their own frames for a more clean building enviroment.
but the actual game resides in a single frame and usually uses global values/strings when doing level jumps ect.

 
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Jenswa

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28th December, 2015 at 28/12/2015 15:58:02 -

My last project: DTV Boxes was.
Just like AmyS3 I had the menu in another frame.
And the level selector, which then jumps to the level frame to load a level from the levels folder.

But most of my older games where made with multiple levels, mostly platform games in KnP/TGF, for which I could use the build in level editor.


 
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UrbanMonk

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28th December, 2015 at 28/12/2015 21:17:18 -

Single framer here as well.

That combined with a level editor is the only way to support mod-able games.

 
http://www.soapcow.com <- Flash games, featuring MMF made games!
http://www.jsoftgames.com <- Old blog I don't keep up anymore
http://www.rodentrush.com <- My best iphone game, made with Fusion.

Airflow

imafirinmahlazr

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29th December, 2015 at 29/12/2015 03:16:44 -

we are all one-framers, proves everyone is clever!

Edited by Airflow

 
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J.C



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30th December, 2015 at 30/12/2015 06:30:11 -

So, is there a limit as to how large a game can be within one single frame before it starts taking a toll on the machine/game's performance?

 
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UrbanMonk

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30th December, 2015 at 30/12/2015 19:07:05 -

The number of objects that can exist in a frame is limited by fusion itself, so there is that.

Off-screen objects that are set to only be active when they're in the frame seem to have no effect on the framerate since their collisions and other things aren't calculated. That's a trick I've used before to squeeze extra performance out of the runtime.

Most of the time though since I build everything in a separate editor, it's just a matter of splitting larger levels into smaller chunks and having the frame load it in when it's needed.

 
http://www.soapcow.com <- Flash games, featuring MMF made games!
http://www.jsoftgames.com <- Old blog I don't keep up anymore
http://www.rodentrush.com <- My best iphone game, made with Fusion.

J.C



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30th December, 2015 at 30/12/2015 22:12:08 -


Originally Posted by -UrbanMonk-
The number of objects that can exist in a frame is limited by fusion itself, so there is that.

Off-screen objects that are set to only be active when they're in the frame seem to have no effect on the framerate since their collisions and other things aren't calculated. That's a trick I've used before to squeeze extra performance out of the runtime.

Most of the time though since I build everything in a separate editor, it's just a matter of splitting larger levels into smaller chunks and having the frame load it in when it's needed.



Build everything in a separate layer? What exactly do you mean?

 
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UrbanMonk

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31st December, 2015 at 31/12/2015 17:25:00 -

Build your own editor, then load levels you built inside your main game frame.
It was mentioned a few times earlier in the thread.

 
http://www.soapcow.com <- Flash games, featuring MMF made games!
http://www.jsoftgames.com <- Old blog I don't keep up anymore
http://www.rodentrush.com <- My best iphone game, made with Fusion.

J.C



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1st January, 2016 at 01/01/2016 18:46:36 -

Oh ok.

So the question I have now is, if I were to build a single frame game with at least 10 levels each with randomly generated areas within, how would I go about transitioning between levels in the single frame? (An example file would be greatly appreciated)

Normally what I do is place all my levels in separate frames, while that is simple and effective, it is a bit too linear for my taste, and I want to try something new this time around.





Edited by J.C

 
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Jenswa

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2nd January, 2016 at 02/01/2016 11:37:50 -

@J.C.

No example needed, consider these frames for a platformer:
1 title
2 menu
3 world map
4 level
5 game over
6 end

The names of the frames speak for themselves.

In frame 4, to level that will be loaded for play there is a level ending condition.
Once that condition is met, the game can jump to frame 3, the world map and the player
can select the next level to play, which will be loaded in frame 4.

That's the basic idea behind it.


 
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Dr James 2



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2nd January, 2016 at 02/01/2016 21:57:38 -

I learnt my lesson with Tormishire, part of the reason the first attempt died was because of using lots of frames. Very silly way of doing it but it was before I knew how to make a level editor at the level of complexity I needed for the game. Big Sky was 13 frames, each settings screen had its own frame. But that was sloppily made too.

 
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J.C



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2nd January, 2016 at 02/01/2016 23:22:32 -


Originally Posted by Jenswa
@J.C.

No example needed, consider these frames for a platformer:
1 title
2 menu
3 world map
4 level
5 game over
6 end

The names of the frames speak for themselves.

In frame 4, to level that will be loaded for play there is a level ending condition.
Once that condition is met, the game can jump to frame 3, the world map and the player
can select the next level to play, which will be loaded in frame 4.

That's the basic idea behind it.



Hmm...I see. So basically to create a single frame game I need to have a level editor frame as well?

I just looked up good ol' Nivram's site and found a level editor example. Unfortunately, when I tried to open it, it turns out I don't have several extensions:

Window Control (kcwctrl.mfx)
Combo Box (kccombo.mfx)
File (kcfile.mfx)
Ini++ (INI++.mfx)

I found Ini++.mfx, but MMF2 is having trouble recognizing it for some reason (it won't register the extension)

I also can't find Window Control, Combo Box, or File Object as the links to the extensions have expired.



Edited by J.C

 
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Ricky

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3rd January, 2016 at 03/01/2016 23:35:54 -

Been doing single frame until I started using flash. I didn't realize I could store binary data inside the flash file so there was really no reason for me to stop

 
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UrbanMonk

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5th January, 2016 at 05/01/2016 06:01:42 -

Ricky isn't it time to update your avatar, you've looked the same for the past 10 years!
Also flash, isn't that on it's way out?

 
http://www.soapcow.com <- Flash games, featuring MMF made games!
http://www.jsoftgames.com <- Old blog I don't keep up anymore
http://www.rodentrush.com <- My best iphone game, made with Fusion.

Jenswa

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6th January, 2016 at 06/01/2016 15:15:08 -

@Dr Jamses 2
Nothing wrong with lots of frames, except that KNP/TGF/MMF can't keep up with them.

@J.C.
Well, you might want a level editor, it's more comfortable editing your levels.
But a text file with different characters will do for a tilemap.

For a basic level editor, you just need your mouse, some objects to select from
for placing in the level and some kind of data storage (ini object for example).
The Ini++ extension probably isn't really needed, the Ini extension could be enough.
The other extensions are probably there to fancy up the level editor, creating nice
saving dialogs it would guess.

You might want to try to create a level editor for tilemaps, those maps are used a lot
in video game consoles. Or you could create a level editor which just stores objects at
x,y coordinates.

@Ricky et -UrbanMonk-
Flash has been slowly dying since ... the takeover by Adobe?
Anyways, Macromedia did fine to sell.
But I am sure you can store binary data in MMF as well, it's just a question of how convenient
the store and retrieval process is. You can also store level data as strings inside.

 
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Ricky

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11th January, 2016 at 11/01/2016 12:32:45 -


Originally Posted by -UrbanMonk-
Ricky isn't it time to update your avatar, you've looked the same for the past 10 years!
Also flash, isn't that on it's way out?



I don't age

 
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Rick Cameron



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13th January, 2016 at 13/01/2016 22:58:29 -

Semi-Related question;

What's the highest line-count you've ever crammed into a single frame? Because I'm working on a game that's currently sitting at 2889 lines, and it's probably going to be around 5k or so by the time it's finished. Am I nervous that it will all collapse into a superdense ball of tangled Alt Values and object reference errors?

Yes. Yes I am.

 
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Airflow

imafirinmahlazr

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15th January, 2016 at 15/01/2016 03:54:35 -

the line limit is something crazy like 16k, but you should watch your event groups they are limited to about 50, i hit that limit and it was unpleasant.

 
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Rick Cameron



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16th January, 2016 at 16/01/2016 14:04:11 -

Do you mean a frame having 50+ Groups of events, or Groups open that contain 50+ lines?

Because my current WIP contains both and runs fine! The group "Attack Phase" alone accounts for about 20 groups and 500 lines.

 
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Airflow

imafirinmahlazr

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18th January, 2016 at 18/01/2016 01:01:29 -

You have 20, and the max is 50, and 50 minus 20 is 30 so you can add 30 more groups. It will stop you from adding groups if you reach that limit. It doesn't matter if groups are open or closed. The max limit is approximately 50. To my knowledge, there is no limit for the number of events in a group either.

 
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Rick Cameron



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18th January, 2016 at 18/01/2016 03:05:56 -

109 Event Groups in total so far in the frame.

...*shrug*


 
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nim



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18th January, 2016 at 18/01/2016 15:21:36 -

Not sure about Fusion 2.5 but MMF's limit is 8912 events, beyond which you'll begin overwriting the events beginning at 1.
128 actions per event.

I don't think there's a limit on event groups but if there is it'll be something ridiculous like 1000+.

 
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Rick Cameron



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20th January, 2016 at 20/01/2016 02:06:07 -

Thank's Nim! That's a relief, actually. I'm pretty sure I can fit all the rest of the code within 5000-odd lines!

 
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Rick Cameron



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21st January, 2016 at 21/01/2016 04:22:22 -

Whilst we're talking about limits, is there any hard cap on the amount of animations you can have in an active?

Not frames per animation, but actual different animations (Stopped, Walking, custom 1, 2, 3... etc)

Cheers guys.

 
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Dr James 2



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25th January, 2016 at 25/01/2016 16:46:17 -


Originally Posted by nim
Not sure about Fusion 2.5 but MMF's limit is 8912 events, beyond which you'll begin overwriting the events beginning at 1.
128 actions per event.

I don't think there's a limit on event groups but if there is it'll be something ridiculous like 1000+.


Fusion 2.5 might have 20,000 if I understand this correctly http://community.clickteam.com/threads/90940-CF-2-5-Event-and-Object-Limitations


 
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Fireline



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27th October, 2016 at 27/10/2016 12:49:13 -

For what it's worth, I picked up Fusion 2.5 in the recent humble (finally upgrading from mmf) and I've so far crammed 187 animations into a button active. Yes, a button with 187 different options. So I'm thinking the limit is either 255 or nothing. Or just stupid high.

Either way a good number.

The former rick_cameron here. I've forgotten all my login details and requesting New passwords does absolutely nothing :l

 
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Fireline



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27th October, 2016 at 27/10/2016 12:55:17 -

Oh and on topic, the wargame I'm making is split over two frames, with the game engine itself in one frame, and the menu's, army creation screens, etc in another. It's the spirit of single frame, but I want as much of the engine frame as possible free to run the engine. Not that it will be particularly intense, but more events is more wiggle room to do add in cool things and expand later if needed.

 
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Demondevilmon



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24th November, 2016 at 24/11/2016 01:04:54 -

Funny. I generally make one frame games and never used global values before... i always save with arrays and that's the way i understand it the best
I am always surprised when i hear the word "global values" from other people ^^

Greets DD

 
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Dr James 2



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27th November, 2016 at 27/11/2016 17:02:20 -


Originally Posted by Demondevilmon
Funny. I generally make one frame games and never used global values before... i always save with arrays and that's the way i understand it the best
I am always surprised when i hear the word "global values" from other people ^^

Greets DD



So you read/write to arrays and have them store values?

I like Global Values because they're built into Fusion and I like to use as few extensions as I can now, making projects easier to port. But I never thought about storing values in an array, I usually just use those to write+save or read+load with data being flushed as soon as possible. I've been considering migrating to a 3D array to store stats for each character in a high content game I'm working on but arrays scare me a bit!

 
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Demondevilmon



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30th November, 2016 at 30/11/2016 21:59:20 -

Yes i store values in arrays because if u keep the structure the same u can reload the values in all ur games i mean sometimes it is just nonesense but i like to take data and reuse it as often as possible.
F.e. my levelgenerator creates a level on a grid. I save the level info to an array. Than i can use the array to put the info in a levelviewer-tool i made to keep track if my generator is working or not. also to keep track of enemies walking around. So just to see if all works out like i want to.

greets

PS Arrays scares me all the time because if u type some input wrong i get all crazy to find the error... for like hours DD

Edited by Demondevilmon

 
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AndyUK

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29th December, 2016 at 29/12/2016 04:44:04 -

In more recent games Ive tried to keep the frames as low as possible but never actually made a game in a single frame.
The biggest problem Ive had lately is that Fusion 2.5 seems to be slower than MMF2 when it comes to using the level editor i used for years on everything i made.

But that's loops for you. Horribly inefficient.

 
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Tilly3



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15th April, 2017 at 15/04/2017 11:45:33 -

I like to make games with lots of frames.

I find its part of the challenge.

Well done, this game has 400 frames. It's more than anything else you've ever made. Have a brownie.

 
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