Project: The TDC Community Project
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Posted By
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Message
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Neuro
Ludologist
Registered
29/10/2006
Points
437
   
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I don't think we can just go ahead and pick a genre we like and hope people agree. We should make what we can realistically achieve, and how we can best fit content produced by members of a range of skill level, from beginners to veterans, and people with varying amounts of free time to work on the project.
I'd love to see this really get off the ground, and I'm sure with the right approach we can really make something great. Brainstorming and the picking most favored ideas doesn't seem like the right approach to me.
There will potentially be a LOT of people working on this, which allows for a vast amount of pure Content. I'm guessing there would be a global engine that would allow content to be added quickly and easily. We basically have no limit to how many characters, levels, items etc. there will be in the game - all they'd need is graphics, sound, and a little behavior code to work with the global engine (even if it's as basic as stats like strength and speed). Even Story can be broken up in the variety of areas, so that people who like to create storylines can have their individual work represented - sub-stories within the main storyline.
Weapon customization works pretty good with this - many people creating different shot types, methods of firing, crazy weapon parts - so I think we're already on the right track. Would also allow for a large number of player characters, if only different heads or space ship sprites.
Open exploration would be a good aspect to have, too, since we'll have a lot of people contributing to different areas and different enemies and items in the areas. Perhaps a linear branching progression, if not completely open. Or at least lots of secret areas and routes.
Personally, I see a Platformer with customizable characters, and hundreds of abilities to choose from, executed in a style akin to the Smash bros. series (attack + up = upwards attack ability, for example). This allows for a lot of different types of content (particularly the variety of unique abilities designed by the community), and we'd end up with a pretty deep game that always presents something different. There's also a great opportunity for different game modes - more content in a very different way, that also allows a lot of integrated sub-genres.
Maybe that's a little too detailed, but I think it would work with the main strengths of having a community working together on a project. Having a good reason behind the genre we pick is key to the game's popularity with the community - how much interest it generates, therefore how many people will come to help rather than shrug it off as an attempt that will surely fail.
I hope I've been able to make some good points, and haven't been just rambling.
Thank you :]
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aphant
Registered
18/05/2008
Points
1242
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"Personally, I see a Platformer with customizable characters, and hundreds of abilities to choose from, executed in a style akin to the Smash bros. series (attack + up = upwards attack ability, for example). This allows for a lot of different types of content (particularly the variety of unique abilities designed by the community), and we'd end up with a pretty deep game that always presents something different. There's also a great opportunity for different game modes - more content in a very different way, that also allows a lot of integrated sub-genres."
I personally think that this is a terrible approach to take. Regardless if this project includes multiplayer or not, every character would need to be balanced. Otherwise, people will find the one that's most overpowering and just breeze through the game. Balancing takes a lot of time to do. Not only will work have to be done on all of the characters to make them generally equal, but the levels would have to be designed so that every character's special traits would make them viable choices. For example, having a fat character that can roll into a wrecking ball down a slope wouldn't be viable if there aren't any sections with slopes to roll down (and presumably enemies to clobber). Likewise, such a section would almost require there to be another solution.
I also think that since Gamemaker's post, everyone's starting to get ahead of themselves with their thinking. But it also seems like the discussion on genre is done; Nearly everyone has expressed interest in an action-oriented platforming (side-scrolling) game, as well as in an RPG game. Now, if we go with the popular vote, we're looking at a side-scrolling action game with RPG elements, not an action RPG side-scroller. Which is me getting ahead of myself with my thinking.
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Jon Lambert
Administrator
Vaporware Master
Registered
19/12/2004
Points
8235
     
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Yes, Adam Phant, you are right. People are jumping the gun, we do seem to have reached a general consensus, and that customization does possibly pose a problem. I said it earler that people are going a bit far with the initial ideas, as the original purpose was to simply come up with a genre. Such development of ideas is important, but not what we are doing right now. Save those ideas for the later discussions.
Adam, you seem pretty interested/invested in this project. That's good! Just the kind of member we need, but of course you did want to start one of these yourself.
So the customization poses a problem unless we put limits on such things, like a certain amount of points that one can use as stats, or points that certain skills are worth, and one can only give skills and stats until they run out of points.
But we leave that until later. Our general consensus, as Adam Phant said, is right now a side-scrolling action game with RPG elements. Anyone looking to disagree with this can comment until sometime tomorrow, when I shall return and confirm the genre.
Good work everyone!
Sandwich Time!Whoo!
JoyCheck & KeyCheck Widgets
For easy implementation of customizable joystick and keyboard controls.
http://www.create-games.com/download.asp?id=8364
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Gamemaker2010
Registered
22/10/2008
Points
31
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A side scroling action game with rpg elements sounds good to me Jon Lambert
Whats a goon to a GOBLIN?
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Neuro
Ludologist
Registered
29/10/2006
Points
437
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Sounds like a great starting point.
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Matthew Wiese
The Fencer
Registered
01/02/2009
Points
149
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By side scrolling action, you mean similar to Contra?
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Aptennap
Registered
23/04/2004
Points
916
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Could live with that.
Oh sweet mary.
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Jon Lambert
Administrator
Vaporware Master
Registered
19/12/2004
Points
8235
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All right then, it looks like everyone is okay with the idea of a side-scrolling action game with RPG elements. So that will be our official genre now. Yay! 
Next order of business is to discuss style, such as side-scrolling, top-down, isometric, etc. The side-scrolling aspect has already been determined, so camera angle is done now. This part of the discussion will primarily concern itself with things like pacing (how fast the game moves), level scope (short small levels or big long levels), and other particular elements. If that makes any sense.
After this part is done, we will move on to themes (like dark, speedy, joyous, colorful, gritty, explosive, interactive, etc.) features and design (like on-rails, flying, saving and loading options, online, multiplayer, etc.), then story, graphics, sound, and programming. But not now! Please keep to talking about style.
The project is moving great, everyone!
Sandwich Time!Whoo!
JoyCheck & KeyCheck Widgets
For easy implementation of customizable joystick and keyboard controls.
http://www.create-games.com/download.asp?id=8364
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aphant
Registered
18/05/2008
Points
1242
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I think a moderate pacing would be ideal. If on your first play through it takes you 4-6 hours to go from start to finish, then that's a good pace. If it's your 100th playthrough and you can clear the game in 30-60 minutes, then that's also a good pace. (If anyone plays a Klik game more than twice.  )
If it takes more than 2 hours just to burn through the game, then it's either too big or too slow; Such a pacing would mean your first playthrough could take 8-10 hours, and as such might be considered time padding.
The good pacing (4-6hr/30-60min) would be facilitated by good level design, not how big or small a level is. A huge level could be found rather short if it's designed poorly, just as a short level could be found rather long.
Considering the genre of game, the optimal level scope should probably be huge levels, or areas. Metroid games and newer Castlevania titles, for example, make use of areas. Basically a series of interconnected levels with the same unifying theme. Whereas a game like Megaman uses just levels, with one theme for each level and not some sprawling expanse.
Personally, I think it'd be really interesting to combine the two ideas, but this is probably getting ahead of the discussion. Have a handful of areas, 4-6 of them, and within them have 2-4 "levels." Each area would have a starter level, and you could travel between the "starting point" of those levels to a central hub. This hub would basically act as a "level select" level, where as you progress you can jump to the other levels at will. Or if you're feeling adventurous, you could skip the hub and just travel between levels and/or areas on your own, and explore the in-between zones. For example, you have Area A, and Area B. You could use the hub to get from A to B, or you could explore and find a path from A to B (and maybe pick-up some goodies along the way, but that's getting ahead of discussion again.)
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7Soul
Registered
12/08/2008
Points
167
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I thinking about something more RPG and less action... like zelda or something, theres the action of kiling the enemies, but theres also lots of exploration, item-using and puzzle solving
So talking about the pacing, the game could have some big areas with enemies, where you can fight and fight and fight... then you find yourself in front of a locked door and you need to find the key, so you go exploring (some enemies on the way)
So i think there should be just one big level, or small connected levels, with a world map
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Gamemaker2010
Registered
22/10/2008
Points
31
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im thinking a slow pace would be nice. A good way to slow the pace that i never really have seen in many games is to make the kills challenging and rewarding. Dont just fly hrough the level killing hundreds of enemies if we can find a way to stretch out individual battles the would be awesome because kills will be rewarding.
Whats a goon to a GOBLIN?
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aphant
Registered
18/05/2008
Points
1242
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Stretching out battles isn't the best idea. That would mean having to have less enemies total, otherwise combat will be a chore instead of fun. It could very well become frustrating. "Ugh, ANOTHER enemy? I just want to do something other than fight." The reward wouldn't be how you go about killing enemies, but just that you don't have to fight anymore. If you'd rather not spend 15 minutes (exaggeration) fighting one enemy, then you'd sooner just stop playing than have to grind through yet another encounter.
Also, stretching out battles will just pad the game time. Might as well just have flat stretches of hallways that take hours to get to the end. No enemies, no interesting changes to the flow, just hours of holding an arrow key down. That way, the game can boast 40 hours of "gameplay"!
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Gamemaker2010
Registered
22/10/2008
Points
31
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Adam, i never said that all there is to do in the game is fight and I meant that i would like a slow pace and offered a way to slow the pace by making individual battles more challenging instead of easily killing tons of enemies. For example left 4 dead is a great game but you can take on 15 zombies with no worries by emptying a clip or two of the uzi into all of them. With resident evil 5 if you are up against 15 zombies at a time you better have a great weapon or else you run(At least i would). That is what i meant by making individual battles more rewarding, this sounds cliche but i tred to say quality of fights over quantity of fights.
Whats a goon to a GOBLIN?
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aphant
Registered
18/05/2008
Points
1242
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I know what you were saying. But you can't make an individual battle feel rewarding unless you feel like you've accomplished something. Likewise, you can't stretch these battles without decreasing the number of them, otherwise it'll feel like all you do is fight stuff. And then at that point you run the risk of these battles feeling so out of place that they wouldn't be fun to take part in; Then the question of "why bother having fights at all?" can be raised.
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tetsuya_shino
Registered
12/08/2004
Points
491
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Adam Phant: "I also think that since Gamemaker's post, everyone's starting to get ahead of themselves with their thinking." >_> Riiiight. So no one was 'getting ahead of themselfs' before Gamemaker's post, right? You did realize I was being sarcastic in my last post right?
To everyone else, I don't think you understood the point I was trying to make. I love anything RPG related, but including such elements in the game will greatly slow down the progress. Now maybe I'm at fault, because I assumed this game was one that was going to be finished and released in the near future. The more complex you make this game, the greater (in theory) it could be. However, the more complex you make it, the longer it's going to take to finish. Is this something anyone stopped to consider? That's why I suggested making an action game. So I guess suggesting to make a game that could actually be finished quickly is 'getting ahead of myself', right Phant?
Now, Mr. Lambert, if you had meant this to be a long term community project, that's cool. I have nothing against that. A side-scrolling action game with RPG elements sounds like a game I'd like to play. However, my question for you is what kind of time frame did you envision when you started the poject? Now don't get me wrong, I'm interested in helping. However, it might be helpful to have a projected release date.
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Jon Lambert