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MasterM



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6th March, 2011 at 12:23:49 -

so ive watched hostel last night and while ive got to admit some of the ideas in that film are good i think it is just TOO violent. im still shocked about some scenes and surprised it wasnt really cut on tv.

so my question is: do we really need such violent movies?

i personally think a movie can be pretty good without displaying all that violence and it is kinda sickening.

 
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6th March, 2011 at 13:03:57 -

Can't say i need them, personally, but i do enjoy them - the gorier the better! Everyone has their own personal threshold, and the gore-threshold is no different. No doubt there are people out there who say "do we really need games?", and we know those people are crazy old fools.

So i say "yes".

(BTW, Hostel 2 is tamer and crapper in comparison to Hostel 1)

 
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6th March, 2011 at 13:18:56 -

i mean i enjoy violent video games like dead space and gears of war but dead space 2 is just so exaggerated and they trimmed to cram as much violence into it as possible it just becomes dumb.

just like hostel i think. it tries to shock you that much and yeh i kinda got sick by the stuff in it and if the story is great the movie could do without those effects but oh well

 
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6th March, 2011 at 15:09:43 -

Obviously the story isn't going to be good enough to stand on its own - it's not trying to be big and clever, it's just a bit of fun.
I personally like gory horror movies (although admittedly I do prefer Asian style horror movies - more psychological horror - eg. The Ring, The Grudge, The Eye, etc).

I watched "All the Boys Love Mandy Lane" last night (Mmmm... Amber Heard), which I thought failed (partly) because it wasn't shocking enough. There was neither gore nor suspense, and you really need one or the other (if not both) to make a good horror movie.

I find it kind of funny how people like my parents really hate strong language in films/tv - yet they watch endless amounts of shit crime dramas on ITV3. It seems they're totally fine with people going around murdering each other, just as long as they don't use a naughty word while they're doing it...
It's the same with soap operas. Violence, drugs, crime, adultery - all fine. Saying the F-word - not acceptable.

 
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6th March, 2011 at 15:40:07 -

i really enjoy the f-word topic and find it to be interesting.

i see you are from the UK so i am surprised the so called f-bomb is a problem. in fact lets just say "fuck" see im german and we guys probably dont have any manners. we dont need a silly word like "n-word" or "f-bomb" to hide we actually mean "fuck" we just say fuck all the time and our language and movies tend to have swearing in it- like hell even the word "swearing". i wasnt really aware of it until i learned it in english. i just thought it was a common thing and it comes naturally here.

different cultures are different i guess so yeh interesting to hear this coming from a brit. always assumed only yanks get butt hurt over it

also what horror films are pretty good then? any suggestions

i like 30 days of night
the evil dead series (including army of darkness)
brain dead (which is pretty violent but in a hilarious way)

 
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6th March, 2011 at 16:06:00 -

I refuse to watch the Saw movies, final destinations and Hostel films. Ive seen the Hostel 2 and some of the final destinations. They're excuses for gore.

 
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MasterM



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6th March, 2011 at 16:19:18 -


Originally Posted by -Adam-
I refuse to watch the Saw movies, final destinations and Hostel films. Ive seen the Hostel 2 and some of the final destinations. They're excuses for gore.



good point.

 
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6th March, 2011 at 16:56:08 -



also what horror films are pretty good then? any suggestions



You should check out the Wicker Man from 1973!

 
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6th March, 2011 at 17:00:50 -

No, we do not need violent movies. Here's a list of other things we don't need:

- Jazz Music
- Romance novels
- The Bible
- Pokémon games
- Beer

The list can go on and on. My point is even though we don't need it, some of these things can be nice to have. I don't listen to Jazz music, but I don't go around saying that we shouldn't have any Jazz music just because I don't enjoy it myself.

If someone watches Hostel then kidnaps a girl and tortures her in his basement it says more about their personality than the movie itself.

 
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6th March, 2011 at 17:02:09 -


Originally Posted by Duncan


also what horror films are pretty good then? any suggestions



You should check out the Wicker Man





this?

Edited by MasterM

 
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6th March, 2011 at 17:28:23 -

Well, there are two ways (and I'm probably limiting things) of showing violence in films. One is through mimesis, where you quite literally just show the action of violence. This can be from very effective verbal violence, like "Who's afraid of Virginia Woolf?" or "Scenes from a marriage", to James Bond or Saw. The former two also contain the other type of violence: diegesis. With it, instead of showing the violence, you only talk about it. You'd immediately think it boring, but since you don't see it, you have to imagine what happened (and here's where things get strange, since you project your personal vision of violence into the film). This is, to me, the more effective form of violence, and also the most elegant. Showing blood will never compensate for good dialogue, and it certainly isn't as cathartic.

 
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6th March, 2011 at 17:39:10 -

That's the Wicker Man remake (which i did enjoy), but it's not as good as Christopher Lee in his original version

 
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6th March, 2011 at 17:42:03 -

On another point, what about violent sports? Do you consider them on the same level as films (realism in sports vs. gore-factor in films)?

 
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6th March, 2011 at 17:52:57 -

They remade it? With Nicholas Cage? What were they thinking?!
Anyone see "Ghost Rider"? Just watched it last week - truly terrible film!

I always liked the remake of "Texas Chainsaw Massacre" (the one with Jessica Biel - much better than the original / sequels). Also:
Anything with zombies (don't really count them as horror though - that's kind of a genre in itself).
Anything with rednecks/cannibals (eg. "Wrong Turn" - and "Wolf Creek", sort of).
Any Asian horror movies.
Most teen horror movies (always hated Scream though).
Anything of those movies that combine horror and soft-core porn.

I generally don't like the "classic" horror movies that are always on people's top 10 lists - stuff like "Halloween" or "The Shining" are just really boring to me.

 
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6th March, 2011 at 17:58:11 -


Originally Posted by Marko
On another point, what about violent sports? Do you consider them on the same level as films (realism in sports vs. gore-factor in films)?



I'm not a big sports-person, but as long as it's between consenting adults I'm ok with it.

 
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6th March, 2011 at 18:04:51 -

I agree with almost everything you said there, Sketchy Can you believe Scream 4 is being released this summer though??

 
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6th March, 2011 at 18:05:39 -


Originally Posted by Phredreeke

Originally Posted by Marko
On another point, what about violent sports? Do you consider them on the same level as films (realism in sports vs. gore-factor in films)?



I'm not a big sports-person, but as long as it's between consenting adults I'm ok with it.


Is it not similar between a consenting film maker and consenting adult audience too though? That was my thought on it

 
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6th March, 2011 at 18:31:38 -

speaking of halloween i did rotoscoping for some shit upcoming horror film no one on this planet is ever going to watch but the interesting thing: the editor of the original halloween edited that movie so it was very interesting to look at the time line and how he cut the whole movie.

also i think stuff with rednecks is cool. i did enjoy wrong turn a lot but sadly part 2 just sucked.

ive also gotta admit alonso got a good point there. often showing the actual violence is a cheap trick and its cooler if the movie projects pictures on your mind without showing you the pictures and you will think up stuff yourself.

its probably a bit like aliens in movies. like if creatures are always just hiding in the shadows and body parts get briefly displayed in the dark- thats way more scary then well showing you the whole thing.

also what sports are violent?

does cloverfield counter as a horror movie? i really love it.

i also think blair witch project is quite scary and it shows pretty much nothing. i watched it with a friend in the cinema when it got released and it bored me to death and i hated it- 6 years later i watched it on tv and i suddenly found it to be scary as hell.

 
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6th March, 2011 at 18:44:02 -


Originally Posted by Marko

Originally Posted by Phredreeke

Originally Posted by Marko
On another point, what about violent sports? Do you consider them on the same level as films (realism in sports vs. gore-factor in films)?



I'm not a big sports-person, but as long as it's between consenting adults I'm ok with it.


Is it not similar between a consenting film maker and consenting adult audience too though? That was my thought on it



Read my post again I never said I was against gorey movies. It was a literal answer to MasterM's question.

I guess I should be more clear. I'm not a fan of gorey movies, but that doesn't mean other people shouldn't be allowed to watch them.


Originally Posted by MasterM
also what sports are violent?



Wrestling, boxing...

 
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6th March, 2011 at 18:44:40 -

Some people like gore in films. It makes you squirm and feel uncomfortable and some people seem to get a thrill from that.

 
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6th March, 2011 at 18:50:46 -

Well, there are two sides of the "violent movies are bad" argument.

The first is that some insane kid kills his mate after watching a violent film. It's not the movie's fault, the kid was unstable to begin with. The Bible has killed more people than any horror movie ever has.

The second is that it's just not tasteful, which is an opinion. I find the idea of people telling other people what to think disgusting, cause it reminds me of this guy.

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6th March, 2011 at 19:04:38 -

Trash is fine so long as I don't have to watch it, but I'm outraged when exploitation masquerades as being highbrow. Look at bloody Hannibal, which is stuffed with inept, utterly hollow signifiers of sophistication - it's just taking advantage of dumb viewers. Or Pan's Labyrinth, which uses tasteless violence as window-dressing in a story so one-dimensional it'd be funny, if it hadn't convinced the world that it wasn't a big old shitheap.

Peter Greenaway made a couple of particularly gruesome arthouse films - The Cook, The Thief, His Wife and Her Lover is awesome, whereas The Baby of Macon makes Salo look like a laugh riot.

My list of good horror films: The Wicker Man 1973 director's cut, The Shining, Dawn of the Dead

 
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6th March, 2011 at 19:09:38 -

That guy was a baaaaaaaad man! And Phred, sorry mate - i misread your post and thought it was MasterM replying! My bad!!

Also, violent sports: i would say UFC is most violent that i can think of (sports widely recognised, that it - there are worse but they are generally unknown to most people of the world), especially the earlier ones when there was no time limits, no gloves, and hardly any rules.

Here's an example - UFC 4, Keith Hackney throwing punches to the groin on Jo Son (all within the "rules"):

 
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6th March, 2011 at 19:45:46 -


Originally Posted by MasterM

does cloverfield counter as a horror movie? i really love it.

i also think blair witch project is quite scary and it shows pretty much nothing. i watched it with a friend in the cinema when it got released and it bored me to death and i hated it- 6 years later i watched it on tv and i suddenly found it to be scary as hell.



I enjoyed "Cloverfield" too, but a lot of people seem to really hate it. I've actually seen it on a few people's "top 50 *worst* film" lists, and never really understood why.

"Blair Witch" was just dull.

 
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6th March, 2011 at 20:57:09 -

This is one of those situations were you can always just stay away from it if you don't like it.

 
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6th March, 2011 at 21:14:37 -

If you don't like them, don't watch them. Most people don't enjoy them. They're cult films for a reason, only a select few watch them, and they really really like them.

I do like Saw because of the way the storyline plays out, rather than the gore, but it's just not for everyone. It'd actually be a better film without the gore, but oh well. Silence of the Lambs was very, very violent, but were not gory on screen, so a lot of people actually liked it.

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7th March, 2011 at 04:54:27 -

How much of what exists in this world, do we actually need? A lot less then any single person is even capable of admitting, much less willing to. So do we need violent movies? Absolutely not. But just like people who want to watch a movie with way too much sex or making out, there are people who want to watch overly violent movies.
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7th March, 2011 at 08:56:51 -

Violent horror films are just rubbish and boring. Why would I want to watch obvious blood-filled props being broken open for one and a half hours? You can just go to TheYNC and watch actual gore. On the other hand, violent action films (like Total Recall) are the awesomest.

 
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7th March, 2011 at 09:46:50 -


Originally Posted by marky_2
Violent horror films are just rubbish and boring. Why would I want to watch obvious blood-filled props being broken open for one and a half hours? You can just go to TheYNC and watch actual gore. On the other hand, violent action films (like Total Recall) are the awesomest.



Lets not mistake your stated opinion as a stated fact. I personally don't find mindlessly violent movies appealing either... but there are a lot of things in this world that I've been shown to not understand about people and their tastes.

 
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7th March, 2011 at 12:05:20 -

house of 1000 corpses
the devils rejects
splinter
the crazies
the texas chainsaw massacre (the original. i disagree with sketchy. ALL the remakes and their sequels were shit)
[*Rec] (not Quarantine. it wasn't as good imo)
The Signal
The Host
Versus
The Devils Backbone
Let The Right One In (The original Swedish film. Haven't seen the american remake)
Funny Games (German OR American Remake. They are the same movie scene for scene just with different actors)

Theres probably a lot more i just cant think of and aren't on my netflix rated movies list. I think you'll find that foreign films do a better job at horror (and movies in general). by foreign i mean non English spoken movies (French, Spanish, Japanese, German, etc.)

Also going off hearing what someone recently said, bloody gory violent horror films for the sake of being violent (sometimes called torture porn) are never as good as horror movies about the triumph of the human spirit, Intelligent horror films. Now i love violence especially when it is portrayed realistically or artistically stylized, so i enjoy movies like hostel and saw, but i enjoy intelligent horror films so much more.

 
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7th March, 2011 at 12:14:26 -

What does everyone think of Paranormal Activity and its sequel? I loved the first film when i saw it forst at the cinema, but it lost it's appeal on DVD. Saw the sequel for the first time on DVD this week too; it was good, but not great. I think the whole "watching it at home but keeping the volume/bass down so as not to wake the kid" thing ruined it a bit

 
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7th March, 2011 at 13:09:07 -

I used to be much more into blood and gore than I am now these days. There's plenty of violence and ugliness ready and available, so I really don't need to seek it out in some hollywood blockbuster (only to walk out of a movie theater and feel I've been cheated out of enough money for a decent dinner, but still left with an empty stomach). I'm still a fan of suspense and horror in the sense of the "ghost story" or fairy tale. I would much rather watch a movie that had violence as part of the progression of the story, as opposed to violence for violence's sake (Grindhouse, anyone?). As long as a story is compelling and the actors aren't dreadful, then I'll sit through pretty much any film at least once. Spectacle needs something else to hold my attention.

I have a high regard for the earlier films in the zombie genre: Night of the Living Dead, Day of the Dead, Dawn of the Dead (my favourite of the three); Return of the Living Dead was a well-done riff off Romero's original trilogy, with solid ideas of its own.

Some very creative films you all may enjoy would be the classic seven with Morgan Freeman, Kevin Spacey, and Gwynneth Paltrow, among others. That film was an excellently-executed example of accessing the audience's imagination to create the more violent, blood-drenched parts.

I also saw a film with Willem DeFoe last year called Antichrist, which was an incredible thriller, and quite gory. There were things in that film that I had never seen before in my life, or in my imagination. Highly recommended, but at times difficult to watch.

I've not seen Saw, Hostel, or the re-make of I Spit On Your Grave. The original ISOYG was a genre-defining film, and worth watching at least once if you're into violent, bloody films. It was difficult for me to make it all the way through the beginning, however, as it was pretty much a 40-minute gang-rape scene. It was/is the benchmark film of the "revenge killer" sub-genre. I've watched it only once, myself.

Probably my favourite horror film (which I would rather classify as a fairy tale, and arguably a chief inspiration for Pan's Labyrinth) is Suspiria, made in the late 1970's. The first fifteen minutes of that film are truly unforgettable. Pretty much anything directed by Dario Argento will have equal amounts of spectacle and epic storytelling.

And I'm surprised no one mentioned Lucio Fulci yet...! Look him up on IMDB or something. His film Zombie is immortal. If you've ever wanted to see a drill press go through someone's skull, rent out City of the Living Dead (AKA The Gates of Hell here in the 'States).

In terms of blatant gore-fests, someone already mentioned the slapstick Brain Dead (or Dead Alive), but for a more serious and atmospheric side of things, go with The Necronomicon, which is a high-budget compilation of H.P. Lovecraft stories from the late 90's, I think.

I have a number of ghost story films I would recommend too, but those are perhaps best served in a different thread, as they lack the gore you folks are seeking.

 
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7th March, 2011 at 14:43:45 -


Originally Posted by Marko
What does everyone think of Paranormal Activity and its sequel? I loved the first film when i saw it forst at the cinema, but it lost it's appeal on DVD. Saw the sequel for the first time on DVD this week too; it was good, but not great. I think the whole "watching it at home but keeping the volume/bass down so as not to wake the kid" thing ruined it a bit



I saw the first one, and it was complete crap. Not only was it not scary (no matter where you see it or how late, dark, quiet, etc. it is), but the actors were horrid, and the characters they played were even worse. The characters were complete morons, borderline retarded, and gave the viewers NO reason to connect with them, on any level. It got to the point where i actually got tired of waiting for them to die. and then i don't think they even did? the girl "disappeared" and the guy only died in the alternate ending.

no interest whatsoever in seeing the second one. straight to video DVD crap probably anyways.

 
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7th March, 2011 at 17:51:43 -


Originally Posted by Cecilectomy

Originally Posted by Marko
What does everyone think of Paranormal Activity and its sequel? I loved the first film when i saw it forst at the cinema, but it lost it's appeal on DVD. Saw the sequel for the first time on DVD this week too; it was good, but not great. I think the whole "watching it at home but keeping the volume/bass down so as not to wake the kid" thing ruined it a bit



I saw the first one, and it was complete crap. Not only was it not scary (no matter where you see it or how late, dark, quiet, etc. it is), but the actors were horrid, and the characters they played were even worse. The characters were complete morons, borderline retarded, and gave the viewers NO reason to connect with them, on any level. It got to the point where i actually got tired of waiting for them to die. and then i don't think they even did? the girl "disappeared" and the guy only died in the alternate ending.

no interest whatsoever in seeing the second one. straight to video DVD crap probably anyways.


I agree completely. What a waste of time.

 
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7th March, 2011 at 18:38:44 -

Not a fan of horror movies - mostly because they tie themselves to a single genre and a single motive for existing ("hello, I'm going to scare you now"). It just isn't clever. But I can watch films with horror themes in them; Silence of the Lambs is great, I liked the Shining, Alfred Hitchcock's horror-esque ones are always worth a watch. But I hate the Saw series, Texas Chainsaw Massacre et al.

 
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7th March, 2011 at 19:17:48 -

Not fans of Paranormal Activity then guys? lol

 
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Candy Cane
7th March, 2011 at 21:15:19 -

Deep Blue Sea was another excuse for gore. Although nowadays the CGI is terrible, and it had more of a substantial storyline than the Hostel series or the Final Destinations. Still, the death scenes were shown in detail, down to the convulsing torn of limbs of the victims floating through the water -_-

 
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MasterM



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8th March, 2011 at 00:25:46 -


Originally Posted by -Adam-
Deep Blue Sea was another excuse for gore. Although nowadays the CGI is terrible, and it had more of a substantial storyline than the Hostel series or the Final Destinations. Still, the death scenes were shown in detail, down to the convulsing torn of limbs of the victims floating through the water -_-





 
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Phredreeke

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8th March, 2011 at 01:02:57 -

That's supposed to be gorey?

 
- Ok, you must admit that was the most creative cussing this site have ever seen -

Make some more box arts damnit!
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Sumo148

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8th March, 2011 at 01:14:06 -

hahaha first the shark barely eats the man, then his mouth is big enough to eat a boat load of people. Love it!

 
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Sketchy

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8th March, 2011 at 01:44:16 -

"Deep Blue Sea" wasn't gorey. It was pretty stupid though - giant sharks swimming in knee deep water, with just their dorsal fins showing...

Anyone ever see "Perdita Durango"? Seemed to combine very graphic violence, rape (of a man, by a woman), etc - with real slapstick comedy. Very strange...
Kind of like a Tarantino movie, only not shit.

 
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MasterM



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8th March, 2011 at 12:31:31 -


Originally Posted by Sketchy
"Deep Blue Sea" wasn't gorey. It was pretty stupid though - giant sharks swimming in knee deep water, with just their dorsal fins showing...

Anyone ever see "Perdita Durango"? Seemed to combine very graphic violence, rape (of a man, by a woman), etc - with real slapstick comedy. Very strange...
Kind of like a Tarantino movie, only not shit.



that looks actually pretty good. i even think the rape scene was in it. also the trailer got the theme from the dating game lol
indeed it looks like non shit Tarantino - i always found him to be massively over hyped and didn't get whats so great about him. as a matter of fact I hate death proof. i don't even think im not smart enough for it - it just happens to be shit and you can't give me "its supposed to be like this" as an excuse. I've watched a lot of exploitation films and I did enjoy them but Mr Tarantino just made a shit film - planet terror isn't even any better. hell its one of very very very few movies of over millions of movies I have seen in my life I just turned off because I found them to be that shit.

speaking of really fucked up and violent movies: Antichrist by Lars von Trier, starring Willem Dafoe and Charlotte Gainsbourg filmed in my area.

 
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s-m-r

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8th March, 2011 at 21:43:39 -


Originally Posted by MasterM


speaking of really fucked up and violent movies: Antichrist by Lars von Trier, starring Willem Dafoe and Charlotte Gainsbourg filmed in my area.



I totally agree with this...I left the theater astounded. I still want to see Stalker directed by Andrei Tarkovsky, which was apparently the chief inspiration for Antichrist.

 
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8th March, 2011 at 22:04:18 -

I totally forgot about that film, Antichrist. I'm going to buy it and watch it.... now!

 
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Sketchy

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8th March, 2011 at 23:13:57 -

Another thing that stuck in my head, without actually being gory - the slow stabbing scene from "Saving Private Ryan". I found that quite unpleasant...

Also, the bit from "Watership Down" when all the burrows are being filled in, and the rabbits all suffocate. That was fairly disturbing too - especially for a movie about cartoon bunnies.

 
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Sumo148

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9th March, 2011 at 01:39:36 -


Originally Posted by Sketchy
Another thing that stuck in my head, without actually being gory - the slow stabbing scene from "Saving Private Ryan". I found that quite unpleasant...

Also, the bit from "Watership Down" when all the burrows are being filled in, and the rabbits all suffocate. That was fairly disturbing too - especially for a movie about cartoon bunnies.



I loved Saving Private Ryan, a bit gory like they opening scene on Ohmaha beach and the stab scene, but it was a great movie overall. During that scene I was yelling at the other guy waiting at the stairs to go help him But I understand he was paralyzed with fear, so whatever.

 
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Sketchy

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9th March, 2011 at 02:27:06 -

Yeah, see that's what I mean.
I was totally fine with the opening scenes, where limbs were being blown off all over the place - I guess I'm probably used to seeing that in movies - but I found the stabbing scene far more unsettling.
Guns seem too detached to be really horrifying, whereas knives/chainsaws/hooks/etc are so much more "visceral".

Edited by Sketchy

 
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Ski

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Candy Cane
9th March, 2011 at 02:44:21 -

I hear they're remaking Watership Down as a CGI film.

 
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Ski

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Candy Cane
9th March, 2011 at 02:49:48 -


Originally Posted by Sketchy
"Deep Blue Sea" wasn't gorey. It was pretty stupid though - giant sharks swimming in knee deep water, with just their dorsal fins showing...

Anyone ever see "Perdita Durango"? Seemed to combine very graphic violence, rape (of a man, by a woman), etc - with real slapstick comedy. Very strange...
Kind of like a Tarantino movie, only not shit.





How is that not gory? Granted the special FX are looking dated now (like stated before), but its still gory.

 
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Marko

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9th March, 2011 at 05:11:15 -


Originally Posted by Sketchy
Yeah, see that's what I mean.
I was totally fine with the opening scenes, where limbs were being blown off all over the place - I guess I'm probably used to seeing that in movies - but I found the stabbing scene far more unsettling.
Guns seem too detached to be really horrifying, whereas knives/chainsaws/hooks/etc are so much more "visceral".


"Guns for show, knives for a pro" - Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Barrels

 
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Sketchy

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9th March, 2011 at 15:52:39 -


Originally Posted by -Adam-
I hear they're remaking Watership Down as a CGI film.


Oh dear. I bet they try and make it family-friendly, and cut out all the trippy / traumatizing stuff. It'll probably end up more like "The Animals of Farthing Wood"...

I guess DBS was a bit gory after all, but probably no worse than most creature movies. It certainly never stood out as being anything out of the ordinary when I watched it.

 
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Rob Rule

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19th March, 2011 at 00:59:49 -

CGI Watership Down? Oh god, terrible news.

And yes, we do need violent films - porn just doesn't cut it for me anymore.

 
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