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Posted By
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Willy C
Registered
14/02/2004
Points
1524
         
 
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28th April, 2004 at 09:00:36 -
How to do Midi music without noting experiance?
I want to make my own music for my games, but as you all should know it has to be in midi. Is there a good music-program I can use to make my games with? Or maybe a Mp3 to Midi converter, cos` I have Hip Hop eJay and shuch, but they arnt exactly the best tool to do game music with.
http://www.robocaptain.com
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Lazernaut
Registered
08/09/2002
Points
1103
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28th April, 2004 at 10:59:30 -
Well, you can't really make any good music without experience.
You have to start from the beginning and practice. Music doesn't come by itself (unless you use those cheesy Ejay programs, but making music in those isn't really your music and it's sorta like wanting to make your own puzzle and then just buying one from the shop so you don't have to draw the pic yourself).
Secong thing is, i recommend you use modules or other freeware music for games instead of midi because midi's sound quality depends on each individual computer where modules and stuff sound like they do on every computer.
I have personally used a program called Impulse Tracker (search google) since '98....be warned that it can be a bitch if you don't know anything about music and never tried this program before.
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Max
Registered
02/01/2002
Points
1570
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28th April, 2004 at 11:53:14 -
Never, EVER use converters that convert MP3s to MIDIs. No one of these programs work nor could they ever hope working at all. It's theorically impossible to convert a mp3 to midi because the program would need to know what kind of instrument is being played by the waveform and it just can't be done. It only retrieve the range, position and length of the notes and nothing more.
The only way to make good music without noting experience is to experiment, experiment and experiment. Listen to a lot of music and pay attention to the way they're being built, then try incorporating similar tricks in your own work with your own ideas. I've practically started composing music like this and it took me almost a year to make a decent midi. I'm doing pretty well now, though. 
As for MODs, I don't really think it's a better bet for a newbie to music composing. It's less accessible than MIDIs (MODs are crap if you don't have decent samples, and finding good samples is hard and can even be pricey) and it's also more time and ressource exhausting. I can make a pretty good sounding MIDI within 1 single hour or less whilst tracking a decent MOD could take me days or weeks. There also are a whole load of tracking commands and tricks to remember and the interface of a tracker isn't really intuitive to someone who's not used to that sort of thing. I personally find the purpose of making MOD music too mechanical to my tastes plus MIDI end up being better whenever you have decent musical hardware. There's not a lot of professionals that actually use MOD for music-making purposes, MIDI's usage is quite more spread through the music business, whether used in the professional or entertainment field.
Swim with me into your blackest eyes.
http://junkman.vze.com
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Nick of All Trades
Possibly Insane 
Registered
03/09/2002
Points
2312
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28th April, 2004 at 11:58:42 -
Try to make jingles. They use to be good for me, and have bent since the first one I created.
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Willy C
Registered
14/02/2004
Points
1524
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28th April, 2004 at 12:31:32 -
So what you are all saying is that I have to learn to compose with notes, freakin notes. Damn thats hard, oh well, guess I just should start off by learning them
http://www.robocaptain.com
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David Newton (DavidN)
Invisible
Registered
27/10/2002
Points
8322
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28th April, 2004 at 13:29:32 -
Well, notes are really what fundamentally make up music... they're difficult to avoid.
If it's actual musical notation you're worried about, then Impulse Tracker and Modplug Tracker (my own personal favourite) don't use that way of looking at it, but it helps to be familiar with it.
http://www.davidn.co.nr - Games, music, living in America
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Cazra
Crazy?
Registered
24/07/2002
Points
4472
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28th April, 2004 at 15:11:55 -
Notes aren't really that hard. The whole notes, 1/2 notes, etc. notes are just for timing really.
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Max
Registered
02/01/2002
Points
1570
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28th April, 2004 at 20:47:38 -
It isn't. You obviously never tried such a program yourself to come up with such a unfounded conclusion. Would you dare pointing me to such a program that actually work? I've tried dozens, and none of them worked in a decent enough fashion.
It's easy to convert a MIDI into an MP3. All of the notes are split into channels in which they can be worked on individually as MIDI events. The program just need to pick up all of your MIDI events and controllers found in your channels and will trigger these events in the order they do appear using specific instrument banks. All of this combined data is converted afterwards into a singular waveform.
The opposite can't be done, though. Unless you're trying to convert a song that only contains 1 instrument, you can't do it. Unlike MIDI, a MP3 do not contain informations about the instruments used into the song, it's a simple compressed waveform. With the millions of sounds used in songs, do you really think that a program can recognize certain waveform data as a particular instrument? It can recognize the pitch, volume and length of notes, but it's impossible for a program to recognize the instrument used. You'll never find anyone that'll mount an universal waveform recognition database, it's not worth the time or effort. Sounds in music are always ever-changing from song to song and artist to artist thus would render such a project impossible to fulfill.
It wouldn't know either how to split the notes into different channels; it'll cram all of the created MIDI events in one single channel, thus making any kind of manual editing close to impossible. Whenever you want a MP3 converted to MIDI, the only way to go is to use your ears and sequence the whole song in a MIDI program by your own means.
Automatic MP3 to MIDI is impossible. End of story.
Swim with me into your blackest eyes.
http://junkman.vze.com
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Willy C
Registered
14/02/2004
Points
1524
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29th April, 2004 at 04:32:13 -
Ok then, forget mp3 to midi. Is there a program simlar to the eJay programs that can make midi music instead of Wav?
http://www.robocaptain.com
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David Newton (DavidN)
Invisible
Registered
27/10/2002
Points
8322
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29th April, 2004 at 05:41:35 -
I don't know of any like that myself... but it's theoretically possible 
What's the basic sort of layout of the eJay programs - is it taking individual samples and drumloops and dragging them in to your tune to piece it together? Because if that's right, you're halfway there already... MOD/MID programs use the same sort of idea, only with individual notes instead of entire samples.
In the case of MOD, you can even use longer samples so that it works in exactly the same way as the program you're familiar with.
http://www.davidn.co.nr - Games, music, living in America
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David Newton (DavidN)
Invisible
Registered
27/10/2002
Points
8322
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29th April, 2004 at 05:43:20 -
Also, I think I can sum up the "theoretical" argument here... MP3 to MIDI conversion is theoretically possible because there are programs that attempt to do that. In practice, however, it's impossible, because they don't work!
http://www.davidn.co.nr - Games, music, living in America
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The Chris Street
Administrator
Unspeakably Lazy Admin
Registered
14/05/2002
Points
48487
    
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29th April, 2004 at 06:29:53 -
ANVIL STUDIO.
n/a
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Willy C
Registered
14/02/2004
Points
1524
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29th April, 2004 at 07:48:57 -
ANVIL STUDIO, looked into it, looks exactly what Im looking for, free to. Il download it when I come home
http://www.robocaptain.com
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