The Daily Click

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Talking Topic #14

News posted 25th April, 2007 by The Chris Street

In your opinion, what is the most technologically advanced klik game, and why?

This is the discussion for this weeks Talking Topic, courtesy of Intergrality.

Your answer could be based on, for example, games that make use of Mode7 to great effect, or games that have basic engines but work well online. What games do you feel are well coded?

Please submit your opinions in the comments thread. Remember to keep things clean, and please respect the opinions of other individuals. And, if you have any ideas for the Talking Topic, feel free to mail them to me! Happy debating!

Click here to view previous Talking Topics

Posted by Phredreeke

25th April, 2007

Neonair Racing, because it's the only (AFAIK) of its kind made in klik software. axel was going to make a similar racer based on the SS games, but he stumbled upon a bug and it died.

Mind you, Advanced!=Good, there are lots of better klik games, but this was about the most advanced. Oh well...

Posted by Ski

25th April, 2007

I played that game yesterday, its poor in my opinion :S The POWER-UPS got smaller as I went towards them omg.

Posted by Hayo

25th April, 2007

I would say Neonair racing too because of the mode7ess, but the actual 2d engine could have been alot better, same for the sprite scaling. Still it's the only mode7 game in klik that's an actual game.

Posted by Hempuli

25th April, 2007

hmmh. Neonair Racing, yes.
hmmh... I think Spirit engine is also very advanced. The game is simple, yes, and becomes boring quickly, yes, but still the battle engine is VERY nice.

Posted by Dr. James MD

25th April, 2007

What looks to be the most advanced is probably something like Terminal Orbit.

Posted by Nobuyuki

25th April, 2007

I'm going with the Underside, cause advanced custom tile engines (ones that load files externally, not from mmf objects) used to be really freaking hard to do.

Posted by axel

25th April, 2007

Neonair Racing, technically advanced? Far from it. It's pseudo-3D, that's it. People seem to think that Mode7 is extremely complex and hard to use, but they're wrong. Neonair Racing could've been much more advanced.

I'd say Ben Mercer's Stuckengine. Or maybe Terminal Orbit. I know what a hell it is to make an RTS in MMF

Posted by Dr. James MD

25th April, 2007

If it's so easy then what makes it advanced?

I'd go with anything by that Fifth (Firth?) guy. That wolf demo he released was pretty nifty.

Posted by axel

25th April, 2007

Nobu: The Underside is quite cleverly programmed, yes, but loading tiles from external files isn't that hard to do. I'd much rather do that than program a complex physics/shooter engine, or a real time strategy game. But I guess that's me.

Btw Phred, I fixed that bug later on. I canned SS Racing for other reasons. But who knows, I might just try again some time, if I don't have anything better to do =P

Posted by ncsoftware

25th April, 2007

Caveman's World is one of the most technologically advanced klik games around. If you've never seen it, you can check out an older test version at http://www.gamefun4u.nl/page13.html

Posted by nim

25th April, 2007

My vote goes to The Underside, too. It's not any one element in particular that makes it impressive, but the way it combines all those nifty tricks like external files and its modular structure that make it very impressive.

A couple of other games that set my klik technical achievement sense a-tingling: Euro 2K, Darkwar 2 and Famulet (an isometric engine by Alonso)

Posted by Beau

25th April, 2007

Machines of Destruction was pretty crazy. Having custom cars, guns, advanced AI that can navigate levels properly and a mostly functional online engine was pretty impressive. But I still think any good online game is impressive. I wish Flan 2 still had a community...or still existed.

Posted by nim

25th April, 2007

Hey Beau, what's Flan 2? I tried searching but only found recipes.

Posted by Flava

25th April, 2007

Ben Mercer's Orphanage demo - I've seen more advanced engines, but I don't think I've seen an actual game that is more advanced. The lighting effects, gore and the enemy AI is near-perfect in my opinion.

Posted by The Chris Street

25th April, 2007

Flannville, made by The Hill Gigas / Shroomlock...

whatever his name is nowadays

Posted by Pixelthief

25th April, 2007

Underside had an amazing modular engine yeah, but I think in terms of overcooked classic cooking Terminal Orbit takes the cake. And poor Tigerworks, but I think that cake is way overdone.

Posted by Guillermo (Cc)

25th April, 2007

I agree, Shroomlock's online games are well coded (the online part, at least). As for the others, I still see many flaws in most of them.

The only good thing about having a really old computer, like mine, is that it shows you who can code and who cannot

and I'm sorry to say most people belong to the latter group.

Posted by Joshtek

25th April, 2007

SmileyHouse Online RPG was/is pretty advanced.

http://www.puchisoft.com/SH_Features.html

Posted by Del Duio

25th April, 2007

Ben Mercer's Orphanage demo

Yeah, really!

Posted by axel

25th April, 2007

Seek & Dread online is also pretty well coded, I think.

Posted by Hayo

25th April, 2007

Are unfinished games allowed?

Posted by Hempuli

25th April, 2007

Seek & Dread, yes.
I'm trying to create advanced light effects

Posted by Sne

25th April, 2007

Terminal Orbit for overall complexity.

Aliens Infestation 2 for very nice AI (IMO), but the game was never completed

http://www.natomic.com/hosted/marks/

Posted by Superfunk

25th April, 2007

I'm answering with Gool 2 for it's strong 3D and Mode 7.

Posted by Silveraura

25th April, 2007

I'd have to say SKS because of all the special effects with weapons and stuff. Getting all the homing information and such to properly transfer over the server and still have a minimum amount of lag. LOF is purely graphics and a decent amount of objects, the basic complexity of the engine is relatively simplistic. You have to give him credit for making it in Moo2, making it more technically complex, but advanced? Far from it.

Posted by

25th April, 2007

Perhaps not the most advanced, but Mark's TSE2 is ridiculously meticulous when it comes to scripting and tile-layering, from what I've seen.

Posted by Reno

25th April, 2007

The most technologicly advanced is the unreleased Hells Awakening online

The moo servers died and I can't physically host a server so it died

. HAO was a MMOFPS somewhat ahlthough it had bugs with more than 2 people so then it became 1 on 1 and co-op :\

I will release it someday

Posted by Jimbob

25th April, 2007

Project: Rhapsody. Don't think anyone has nailed the RPG properly on the head yet, but I think Blake has, along with every bell and whistle imaginable (in the engine at least).

I really liked Fifth's platformer as well. But I don't how technologically advanced it is other than external level loading. (And I really wish he'd update us on that

).

Machines of Destruction gets one of my votes as well. That seemed insanely complex (in my brain), so kudos to Ben, wherever he may be now.

Posted by Tigerworks

25th April, 2007

Ahahaha, this is a funny post to stumble across

I think Terminal Orbit's demo was released about five years ago, which would pretty much make it the Duke Nukem of click. That takes me back.

I have plans to bring it back with a new engine some time in the future. Who's been paying attention and knows what engine that's gonna be?

Posted by Chrisbo

25th April, 2007

super ken senshi for sure

Posted by BeamSplashX

25th April, 2007

Famulet and Machines of Destruction.

Posted by alastair john jack

26th April, 2007

Mr Stumps Dentures seemed to amaze me.

Posted by Muz

26th April, 2007

Hard to say. ED for advanced platform engine, MoD for allowing almost everything to be customized, and doing it almost flawlessly (the minimap was nice too). TO was overall good, had learning AI if I'm not mistaken, and a nice engine that didn't lock up unlike the other RTS engines. TSE didn't really seem that complex, something I could do and planned to do but somehow failed.

Posted by

27th April, 2007

Pardon the offense, but I very much doubt you can get something done that even dimly rescembles TSE.

Posted by Ski

27th April, 2007

Nothing is impossible if you put your mind to it

And if I thought like that normally, RR would be alot better LOL!

Chisbo, your avatar is cute

Posted by MasterM

27th April, 2007

haha good lord
you admin/moderator people are certainly picky
stop being SUCH awful nazis

i want a counter for all the comments and threads you guys deleted.
that must have been at least comment number 9

Posted by Pixelthief

27th April, 2007

Aside from the pretty graphics, TSE's basic gameplay was about on par technologically-wise with the most basic RPG model; I've seen that kind of engine thrown together in an hour. Just because a game is good and has great graphics doesn't mean its complex, persay. Look at fishhead; great games, and hell it used the built-in platform engine.

Posted by axel

27th April, 2007

/me agrees

Half of all the comments here seem to be based on the game's graphics, not its engine. ITS TECHNOLOGICALY ADVANSED COS ITS GOT NICE PIXELARTS!!1

Posted by Ski

27th April, 2007

t0t/\11Y /\GR33!

Posted by David Newton (DavidN)

27th April, 2007

Nazis: Responsible for WW2 and the deaths of millions
Admins: Responsible for deleting a few clearly offensive posts on a website

Not really comparable, are they?

Posted by Johnny Look

27th April, 2007

Nazis sucks.

Posted by axel

27th April, 2007

Die Schutzstaffel will get you for that, Johnny!

Posted by Johnny Look

27th April, 2007

I want to see that.
Fick Dich to him.

Posted by Hayo

27th April, 2007

how is "technologically advanced" only about engines?

Posted by axel

27th April, 2007

Technologically advanced colored pixels

Posted by Hayo

27th April, 2007

Well, graphics is not just the pixelart or whatever art you are using. You can do loads of funky technical stuff to make it look better or more dynamic. And I am not talking about using stupid photoshop filters but actual ingame stuff. You can make perfect pixelart and put it in a game and it will look really boring and static.

Aside from that, I still can't think of a game that's actually finished that stands out for it's technical advancement. I just played some of Bernies games, totally loved them and they feel technically advanced but I already saw the GDG (game design gestapo) bash them for not being advanced/balanced so I really don't know shit about it and will shut up now and actually have fun with this hobby

Posted by

27th April, 2007

"Aside from the pretty graphics, TSE's basic gameplay was about on par technologically-wise with the most basic RPG model; I've seen that kind of engine thrown together in an hour."

Oh, please. I'm not discussing pointlessly, but there's --trust me-- a lot you don't see and do not thus become inexistant. If you were not to open directories or hear word from authors, then you might as well say The underside is built conventionally. Beside the fact that it was released years ago, I was talking about its sequel (which is not released, I've noticed).

Posted by axel

28th April, 2007

"Well, graphics is not just the pixelart or whatever art you are using. You can do loads of funky technical stuff to make it look better or more dynamic. And I am not talking about using stupid photoshop filters but actual ingame stuff. You can make perfect pixelart and put it in a game and it will look really boring and static."

And how is that not game engine related? An engine can be more than just player movement, you know? But I get your point. The water effect (the way the background changed) in BnH was quite funky. But still, I like to draw a line between graphics and programming when it comes to these kind of questions.

Posted by Dustin Gunn

28th April, 2007

Either of Ben02's games. Machines of Destruction had really nice AI and extreme flexibility with somewhat reliable netcode, while SKS is still the only online cooperative klik game with properly synced squads of enemies and everything.

Posted by Dustin Gunn

28th April, 2007

And TSE was NOT simple, it was a fairly deep game with lots of dynamics and I didn't run into a single bug.

Oh and the Orphanage is shaping up to be really progressive in terms of klik.

(Oh yeah, The Underside's single frame, custom scripting engine system is pretty amazing too)

Posted by ben mercer

29th April, 2007

Thanks flava and the others that commented on my game. I've added more lighting and blood effects since the last demo, I'm working on levels again now.

I don't know if anyone remembers Sam Dillards Deepside demo that was released on DC ages ago, but that was pretty technologically advanced.

Posted by Chrisbo

29th April, 2007

Thanks adam

Posted by Plooscva

30th April, 2007

I'd have to say The Underside, all the external scripting is really impressive.

Also Seek and Dread is a great achievement for Klik, probability the best online Klik game in my opinion.

Between these? Bleh.

Posted by Jack Galilee

30th April, 2007

That cars game by FAIND. I can't remember its name.

Posted by Muz

30th April, 2007

True, TSE has depth, but I've done similar things. I'll agree that it's a lot of hard work, though, like TO. TSE's depth is based on good use of its engine and a great design, not on technical complexity. The lack of bugs are thanks to the author's good programming skills and hard work, not on technical complexity.

In fact, less complicated games are much less likely to have bugs. Anyone who's tried to use a good engine on multiple objects in MMF should know what I mean

. Heck, it's almost impossible to do something time-based in MMF since the whole damn thing doesn't synchronize well.

Not that TSE wasn't a fun game though. Probably the game I respect most in the community.

Oh, and graphics sometimes mean complexity. I know BES uses engines for explosions, those were complicated back in the old days, but just about everyone knows how to do one now. And ragdoll physics, newtonian physics adds nice graphical detail, but aren't easy.

Jack, FAInd cars game was MoD

Posted by Chrisbo

1st May, 2007

oh how could I forget, Lyle in Cube Sector!

Posted by axel

2nd May, 2007

Lyle isn't technologically advanced. It's just generally awesome.