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MMF2/TGF2 Build 248 Beta - Java included
News posted 16th December, 2007 by Flava  
It was announced at the click convention that Clickteam would be adding the ability for users to save their applications as Java applets and Java applications. This is a huge step for MMF2/TGF2 as it means that applications can now run on multiple platforms such as Mac, Linux and handheld devices. Jeff has posted on the Clickteam forums with links to download the 248 beta for TGF2, MMF2 standard and MMF2 developer.

You can save your applications as java applets in all versions of TGF2 and MMF2. However you can only save as actual Java applications if you have MMF2 developer. It's important to note that build 248 is only a beta at the time being, and so it's important that you backup any versions of your games before installing this update.

Click here to download TGF2 Build 248 update
Click here to download MMF2 Standard Build 248 update
Click here to download MMF2 Developer Build 248 update
Click here to read the forum post

Posted by »xerus 16th December, 2007

Only developer can save java applications... come on ;(
Posted by Rikus 16th December, 2007

Wow what a great weekend
Posted by Pixelthief 16th December, 2007

This is incredible news, bogged down by the "NOT FREE" thingy.
Posted by Jason Orme 16th December, 2007

So whats the difference between a Java Applet and Java application?
Posted by Jason Orme 16th December, 2007

Apart from £220...
Posted by LIJI 16th December, 2007

Java applets run from browsers and Java Apps are like exe files.
Posted by Guru Rinpoche 16th December, 2007

That's crap--I just made a school project with MMF2 and it would've been nice if it could've worked for macs, but I only have the standard version so it doesn't even matter.
Posted by Phredreeke 16th December, 2007

You can still make an applet and run in a web browser on a mac. You won't be able to save files to disc though.
Posted by Dr. James MD 16th December, 2007

Yea, would have been nice on MMF2 Standard users.

Until more extensions are ported over to Java it's of no big deal to me anyways.
Posted by Jason Orme 16th December, 2007

It should be for Standard MMF2, as its unfair to buyers which had no idea that this would be a feature of MMF2 Dev.
Posted by AndyUK 16th December, 2007

well it wasn't when we paid for it
so this is like a bonus
Posted by Johnny Look 16th December, 2007

When I thought klikteam would let us make mobile games, here's another disappointment.
Great, thanks for nothing.

That's a really stupid and selfish move.
Why can we only create java apps with MMF2 Dev ??
Posted by Ski 16th December, 2007

Hmm you can always upgrade to Dev, although I must say, I do think everyone should be able to make the apps, when people bought MMF2, Java wasn't even one of the features for Dev to have such privileges.
Posted by Ski 16th December, 2007

wow Im pretty, crap when, it, comes, to, using commas, lol.
Posted by The Chris Street 16th December, 2007

I totally agree with what Clickteam are doing. It's not called MMF2: Developer for nothing! The more you pay, the more features you get. It's the way life works, and Clickteam aren't doing anything different to other companies.

Take, for example, Adobe.

Adobe Premier = £700ish - you get absolutely everything you ever need.

Adobe Premier Elements = £70! A very stripped down version of Premier.

Honestly guys I don't think you have a reason to complain, it's marketing.
Posted by Ski 16th December, 2007

Yes but Java isn't what people paid more for in the first place, no one knew about it.
Posted by Jason Orme 16th December, 2007

any idea how much it is to upgrade to MMF2 Dev from Standard? Can't seem to find any prices on the site.
Posted by Silveraura 16th December, 2007

Developer costs so much because of the royalty free license, not all the extra features. The extra features are bonuses to people who paid the extra $200 for it.

I agree though, not being able to build Java Apps is a pretty selfish move. Let's hope we don't see limitations like this when the implement Hardware Acceleration.
Posted by Pixelthief 16th December, 2007

Its a *reasonable* move, in that it is a means parallel to other companies means of how to make a profit from a product that most people will only use the stripped down model of; it encourages people to pay more money. In a financial sense, it makes sense.

In the real world, it does not. How many java editors require you to buy the full licensed version to compile projects? I mean $#%!@#!#$ seriously. Imagine if you needed to pay $300 to use the currently free version of eclipse?

The licensed developer version should remain just a requirement to developing licensed products.
Posted by alastair john jack 16th December, 2007

Wonder if Construct will do java things.
Posted by Radix 17th December, 2007

I was going to make a commment about it being a free market, and then it occurred to me... maybe CT like to deliberately kick their userbase in the balls periodically to prevent it growing large enough to stimulate competition. Genius.
Posted by DaVince 17th December, 2007

Ooh, finally.

There's no sense in making applications available for the developer version only, as it's really easy to bypass (make an executable that creates a browser window with an applet in it, seriously)...

lol, alspal.
Posted by MasterM 17th December, 2007

Posted by nim 17th December, 2007

"maybe CT like to deliberately kick their userbase in the balls periodically to prevent it growing large enough to stimulate competition. Genius."

hahaha, that just about sums it up. They could've told us months ago that Java apps were going to be for Dev only.
Posted by LIJI 17th December, 2007

Actually I've suggested Clickteam to do it the other way with Java: MMF2 Standard should only be able to build apps and MMF2 Dev will be able to build everything Java-related.

And Mobile Phone games are coming in the final release of Java Runtime, as they announced in the convention.
Posted by Dr. James MD 17th December, 2007

Bloody hell, yea they better not break HWA for us Standard users. Ouuuch!

Just don't give it to TGF2 users
Posted by Johnny Look 17th December, 2007

haha in that case I would ask for a refund.
Posted by Silveraura 17th December, 2007

I highly doubt a huge percentage of people would have paid $200 more for developer, if they knew that in the future, they would’ve been able to build Java Apps, but not if they only had standard. It just doesn’t seem logical to tease standard users with a new feature, but only give them a half assed compiler, as a way to “encourage” them to get developer.

Again, I severely hope that they don’t rip apart HWA like this, because that’ll be a shame. This whole Java thing really isn’t a big deal to me, but HWA is.
Posted by Liquixcat 17th December, 2007

If you're so interested in HWA, use Construct.

Who gives a rats ass what they do. Eventually it'll come to you guys too, seriously.

"me r CT and us make java only 4 developar, screw usarbass dey not importint. I marcet 2 no1 and b riche!"

no offense Jeff (who will read this), but you can't afford NOT to release it to standard users.
Posted by MasterM 17th December, 2007

whats HWA again?
Posted by AndyUK 17th December, 2007

well we've already paid for it. so... they can afford to.
Posted by Johnny Look 17th December, 2007

oh and btw i'm switching to construct which is getting updated with a huge number of fixes and additions fairly quickly.

the possiblity to export to java applications was the only advantage mmf2 was going to have, and yet they managed to blow it away.

Congratulations clickteam !
You proved your wallet is more important that your users.
Posted by Liquixcat 17th December, 2007

ah ffs Johnny that was sarcasm. Pay attention. Construct isn't even close to ready to compete.
Posted by Johnny Look 17th December, 2007

If you tried the last build you would notice that Construct can do the same as MMF2 but with HWA, pixel shaders etc...
Just isn't quite as stable.
Posted by LIJI 17th December, 2007

I'm getting sick of people who go crying "I'll get Construct ;_;" whenever Clickteam does something they don't like. Use Construct and deal its problems and leave us alone with your ranting.
Clickteam keeps adding new features to MMF2 and MMF2 Developer for free. You never paid for these features, you get them now for free as a bonus.
To thank Clickteam for their generous freebie you go crying "No it's not good enough".
Just to letting you know, Java was originally meant ONLY for MMF2 Developer, but they were kind enough to add partial support for MMF2 Standard and even TGF2.
It's right that adding Java Applications instead of Applets to the lower cost versions would be a better idea, but it still doesn't change anything.
Posted by Ski 17th December, 2007

I am making MMF 3 in MMF2 standard edition. Buy it, it's out soon
Posted by Pixelthief 17th December, 2007

MMF2 will make money as long as new people are attracted to the klik market. I never bought a copy of MMF1.5/2/whatever its on now. Just KNP/TGF/MMF.

After I realized TGF could pretty much do everything MMF does, and do it faster, I skipped out. And when I saw MMF2 with hardware acceleration and java in the future, it looked like it might actually have enough features to merit buying it. Fat chance now, however. And thats the kind of people clickteam have to attract; people who are judging MMF2 up against competing products.

Clickteams reaction is to make its own product worse artificially, and throw bogus law suits after its competitors.

Posted by Steve Harris 17th December, 2007

I can't believe all you guys are moaning. When you purchased MMF2 you had no idea you were going to get any form of Java support. CT have done a lot of work implementing it for no money... they could've just left it as it was or charged for the upgrade like some companies would.

Also, what's the point of owning MMF2 Dev if you don't get some nice juicy features that the standard feature doesn't have?
Posted by David Newton (DavidN) 17th December, 2007

Clickteam: "Here are some free extra features."
TDC: "You're all bastards."

You lot are unbelievable.
Posted by »xerus 17th December, 2007

Heres how I see it ;p

Clickteam: "Here are some free extra features for the people that paid more."
People that didnt pay more: "You're all bastards."
Posted by Tim 17th December, 2007

Yeah, that pretty much sums it up.. As much as I don't like to admit it, it's fair enough really.
Posted by Pixelthief 17th December, 2007

MMF: TGF with a few more options and a prettier look
MMF1.5: MMF with a few more options and a prettier look
MMF2: MMF1.5 with a few more options and a prettier look, and some major features like HWA and Java that you probably can only get if you shell out $$$$$

I didn't buy MMF2 in the first place because it wasn't even a remotely significant improvement over the last $100 product. And when that improvement comes along, it costs an addition $200 on top of that? Nty, sirs.
Posted by Guru Rinpoche 17th December, 2007

I demand free stuff that I don't deserve; that's the American way.
Posted by Pixelthief 17th December, 2007

If the softwares not going to be maintained, no sense buying it in the first place. Imagine developing in TGF/MMF that had absolutely no extensions?
Posted by Ricky 17th December, 2007

thats pretty much what TGF2 is
Posted by Pkeod 17th December, 2007

When you purchased MMF you didn't NOT purchase anything beyond the version that you were given license for. Clickteam is under no obligation to give you updates to the version that you have a license for. Clickteam is a really great company and what they are doing, continuously updating and giving more features away to the people who purchased originally, is really awesome. Did you know there are companies that require you to pay for every single update to their software?
Posted by Pkeod 17th December, 2007

I posted before reading my message :x should say "did NOT"

It's just so ridiculous for you to assume that you deserve more than you paid for!
Posted by Guru Rinpoche 17th December, 2007

Well, you should expect updates and bonus features to a certain extent. The bottom line is, there's plenty of companies that offer free add-ons and stuff all the time--it's an incentive to buy their next big program, knowing that you'll be getting bonus stuff as time goes on. Maybe its inherently unreasonable, but that's how it is these days; there's so many competing companies that consumers have a little more power, and get to expect more. Granted, it's hard to expect more from a smaller company like Clickteam, but if you haven't seen, this "Construct" thing seems to have some followers, and if Clickteam wants to keep everyone around they need to give out freebies whether its intrinsically "fair" or not.
Posted by Pkeod 17th December, 2007

It's Clickteam's choice as to what they will do. When you made your purchased you were not promised updates, so you cannot expect free updates or bonuses even if everyone else is doing it. Thank goodness that Clickteam does give free updates and bonuses!

For those of you who are whining here is a repost of something I said a few days ago on the CT Forum: Support Clickteam and upgrade to Dev if you need Java support . My reasoning is this: people who would find it useful are using MMF to make money. Generally, I assume that people who do not have Dev are not using MMF to make money. It's possible... but then why not show how much you appreciate Clickteam's work and get Dev?

I don't believe the excuses that people don't have the money to get dev. If you're young then there are ways to make money if the extra features mean that much to you. If you're over 18 and can't afford it then you're doing something wrong with your life.

In my opinion, as Construct is now, it is no threat to Clickteam's software.
Posted by Ricky 17th December, 2007

Whats the point in shelling out all that money for Dev. when mmf3 is going to come out in 2 or 3 years
Posted by Pkeod 17th December, 2007

For those of us who are serious about game development, we can leverage what MMF can do and make a lot of money from it. For people who just want to keep making crappy freeware games, then go ahead and wait for MMF3.
Posted by Guru Rinpoche 17th December, 2007

You're right, it IS Clickteam's choice--whether or not they want to go bankrupt. They gave MMF2 standard Java apps, which is better than nothing, so people shouldn't complain. But you're living in a dream world if you think people are going to be happy with what they've purchased--the world doesn't work that way.
Posted by Pkeod 17th December, 2007

From what Jeff has alluded to, Clickteam is financially doing outstanding. They are not going to go bankrupt over the bawling of a few selfish people. QQ and go back to making games however you wish to do so.
Posted by Guru Rinpoche 17th December, 2007

That's my point, they've given out free bonus stuff and they're very helpful, which is why people like them and keep buying their this too complicated to understand?
Posted by Pkeod 17th December, 2007

This -> ...they want to go bankrupt... But you're living in a dream world if you think people are going to be happy with what they've purchased--the world doesn't work that way.
Posted by Guru Rinpoche 17th December, 2007

Posted by Eternal Man [EE] 17th December, 2007

My god...
Stop bi***in already.
Posted by Pixelthief 18th December, 2007

i really could care less what the /b/tards think. I'm not shelling out my money for a half-assed product thats got no advantages over what I already bought from clickteam.
Posted by Ricky 18th December, 2007

Pkeod: " For people who just want to keep making crappy freeware games, then go ahead and wait for MMF3."

SO freeware games are crappy now? Why even come to this site if you don't like freeware games.
Posted by Pkeod 18th December, 2007

Ricky: "Whats the point in shelling out all that money for Dev. when mmf3 is going to come out in 2 or 3 years"

Not all games that are published here are crappy freeware games (some are good freeware games). So, I may still come here when I want to?

But I really only originally logged in to tell some of you guys that your expectations are absolutely ridiculous =
Posted by MasterM 18th December, 2007

"I'm getting sick of people who go crying"

i also still dont know what HWA is
Posted by Ricky 18th December, 2007

I'm not complaining, I'm happy with the product I have.
Posted by MasterM 18th December, 2007

oh right Hardware Accelerators. i hoped it would be Horror Writers Association though
Posted by Ricky 18th December, 2007

HWA is when your graphics card does its job instead of the processor. It allows for more objects on the screen with ink effects, high frame rates, and really smooth scrolling.
Posted by Muz 18th December, 2007

I don't use Java, so I don't really care.. but IMHO, I think it makes more financial sense to allow Java apps for MMF Standard. Right now, the only problem MMF 2 has is finding people who'd use it. Java means that plenty of people who normally wouldn't use MMF would pick it up. The price tag on MMF Dev is definitely going to scare off a lot of potential casual customers...
Posted by DaVince 18th December, 2007

Pkeod: in the real world, there's usually some competition to make both parties work as hard as possible to let their clients choose them. This is working adversely.

"For people who just want to keep making crappy freeware games, then go ahead and wait for MMF3."
What about the people who just want to keep making AWESOME freeware games?
Posted by thewreck 18th December, 2007

I'm kind of surprised that no one has spoken about the the confusing situation this is putting developers in. Vitalize or Java applet? On one side, clickteam wants vitalize to me widely spread and used by everyone, but it doesn't work on MAC, nor is it very wide spread in browers. Java applets on the other hand, are well spread, and do work on MAC, but it doesn't grow clickteams brand. What is the end goal here? Should we made arcades with 2 versions of ours games, one vitalized and one java? Or should we just wait until the java applet one can make everything that a vitalized can? Or should we hope that vitalize one day becomes Mac compatible, and hopefully also widespread?

Just some thoughts that are going through my head.
Posted by Steve Harris 18th December, 2007

Java all the way baby!
Posted by Eternal Man [EE] 18th December, 2007

Man, I love your avatar...
Posted by Stephen [NeonairGames] 18th December, 2007

Darn it... Java is terrible for graphical programming. The cross-platform translation makes it terribly slow compared to other languages.
Posted by Pkeod 18th December, 2007

@thewreck: Clickteam can ultimately control the speed of Vitalize, where as Java applications will always be 50% slower than regular MMF applications and nothing will change that at the moment. However, the Java runtime is really the only hope to put games onto other operating systems. So, the smart developer would take advantage of both.
Posted by Pixelthief 18th December, 2007

Java compatibility is what can bring MMF to a larger audience. Right now, in the programming circles I know, all the people that use C++/Java, which is like 90% of them, think MMF is a joke if theyve even heard of it. With the ability to produce Java apps, it actually risks becoming a popular authoring tool. With an extra $300 pricetag, it loses another 90% of that potential market. Theyd almost certainly make more money if they just got MMF2 to be the attractive product it could certainly be with HWA/Java; 10000 people buying a $100 product is far better then 10 people buying a $300 product.

Then again, it might become popular against clickteam's wishes via bittorrent. There would be a large chunk of people who only want to author shareware games, and therefore need not worry about licenses, but want the java compatibility. Odds are if MMF2 becomes better known, cracked and modded versions will be bountiful :/
Posted by thewreck 18th December, 2007

also, on a side not. I am assuming HWA and java will not be compatible.. right?
Posted by Pixelthief 18th December, 2007

Java supports HWA.
Posted by Guru Rinpoche 18th December, 2007

But when you use HWA, you will transcend reality and your infinite body will be unable to use Java.
Posted by Steve Harris 18th December, 2007

Exactly! Can't wait.
Posted by MJK 18th December, 2007

This is simply fantastic news. HWA is great, but for me this Java runtime is something superb, if it will fully realize in the future. A lot of big question marks still in the air, e.g. regarding extensions support, speed and mobile trying not to count my chickens before they are hatched.
Posted by Assault Andy 18th December, 2007

I can't believe these discussions are even taking place. David said it best:
Clickteam: "Here are some free extra features."
TDC: "You're all bastards."

If you want java, just pay to upgrade to Dev (That's why it's called Developer, it has more features). You won't lose any money.

Either way, it is super news that Clickteam have implemented java support.
Posted by Pixelthief 18th December, 2007

For the last time, its not a free gift to people who haven't bought MMF2 yet. And to those people that won't buy MMF2 at all, now.
Posted by alastair john jack 18th December, 2007

Assault Andy that is not extremely generalised view.
Posted by alastair john jack 18th December, 2007

Assault Andy that is an extremely generalised view*
Posted by Ted Boomerang 18th December, 2007

wait wait. you guys are complaining because you can convert to java for use on the internet, but can't make an application?

....HELLO?! having a java applet export is the greatest thing. most people don't want to download games onto their hard drive, they want games on their browser. Clickteam just handed TGF and MMF2 standard users the ability to spread your games far from the old EXE standard and all you do is complain?! most of you guys make simple games with high scores: the applet is perfect for you!
Posted by Pixelthief 18th December, 2007

The MMF2 developer version is a license fee you pay to make profit from games. What happens to people who just want to actually compile a project? This is obviously aimed at strongarming people into paying for a license they do not need and will never use.

If clickteam wanted to release it as a seperate, $20 add-on back, that would be perfectly acceptable and precedented. Tying it into the commercial version is just a cheap way to make a buck.
Posted by Windybeard Games 18th December, 2007

Posted by Eternal Man [EE] 18th December, 2007

I second that!
(the yawn)
Posted by Pkeod 19th December, 2007



No, it's not just a quick way to make a buck. Clickteam makes no extra money from the people who have purchased developer already. If you think extra features is strong arming people into buying more software, then you are wrong; who is forcing you to do so? You've already said that you are not going to purchase MMF2 at all... so why does all of this matter to you?

Look at this feature sheet:

There isn't much different between MMF2 dev and standard. What is different there is strictly aimed at people who likely wish to develop commercial software; therefor, they are the people who are willing to pay extra for Clickteam's hard work. Don't you think Clickteam would only continue to release Dev specific features if they would really only be useful to commercial developers?

Personally, I think it's fair that we, the original developer users, get a few nice dev specific things here and there even if that's totally irrelevant to this discussion. Also, you're a cheap bastard.
Posted by Johnny Look 19th December, 2007

@ Ted Boomerang
That was a pretty dumb statement.
Java applications = for the PDAs, cell phones, etc... Not windows applications lol

Java Applet = slow alternative to vitalize.
Because you Vitalize existed, right ?
Posted by alastair john jack 19th December, 2007

Pkeod your last comment was unnecessary and unkind.
Posted by Guru Rinpoche 19th December, 2007

So how 'bout them Yankees?
Posted by Pixelthief 19th December, 2007

Yeah, well I say it the way it is. I'm not a shill for clickteam nor a tool of construct or any other programming language. Clickteam is withholding a feature they KNOW is their only chance at mainstream popularity, and placing it into a package where people are forced to pay for a developer license. In practice, the idea is that people will be attracted to MMF2 as a java compiler, and come and buy the developer version for $$$. In reality, if everyone isnt already scared off enough by the price tag, it will just become a hot download on bitorrent. Its not just a cheap way for clickteam to make a buck, its a BAD cheap way.

Let me remind you, the userbase for java is about 100000x large as the userbase for clickteam products. Making MMF2 into a java compatible compiler is a huge step forward. Not a single java programmer is going to come and say "hey all those features on MMF standard merit buying it, even though it can't compile java without an extra $200". People new to clicking are going to want java support. And they sure as hell aren't going to like the idea of shelling out for a license.
Posted by markno2 19th December, 2007

What is the problem? It's only $220 anyway.
Posted by Stephen [NeonairGames] 19th December, 2007

Free Java compiler:

I've been using this all semester for java programming classes. Works pretty well.

Posted by Guru Rinpoche 19th December, 2007

Plus, giving Java isn't going to make Clickteam mainstream--I think most people end up using flash to make little games anyway.
Posted by David Newton (DavidN) 19th December, 2007

OK, now that the discussion's calmed down I can see it boils down to the price that you're paying to get the application portion of the Java feature.

First of all, johnny Claus (and anyone else who is as confused) - the Java applications are for computers and other devices that can run the standard Java versions (J2SE). The mobile version of Java (J2ME) is what runs on mobile phones, PDAs and the like, and this hasn't been completed yet, as apart from the name the two versions are very different. Clickteam has yet to see how easy it'll be to produce one unified mobile Java runtime - it's more likely that different versions of it will exist for different devices. And it hasn't yet been decided where those will be available.

Pixelthief, there has been some discussion of a separate "Java upgrade" for the Standard version, but I don't know what's come of that. I don't know quite where you got the idea that Clickteam are out to get you. (While I'm on the subject, despite the seemingly high price of Developer, I can't think of any comparable software that's cheaper.)

People new to clicking do have Java support. Just not the ability to compile as a stand-alone JAR.

About the torrents - this happens to all software regardless of price. However, Clickteam seem to be more adept than most at blocking out the pirate serials that are floating around, and preventing them from getting the free extras that the genuine versions have. Although this isn't very difficult, because judging from the people who come into the forum complaining about non-working bonus packs, most of the pirates are moderately stupid.
Posted by Pixelthief 19th December, 2007

My main miff is that java compiling opens to door to attracting a MUCH larger crowd that 'click' based programming currently has. We're looking at attracting people who are unfamiliar with event-grid based programming but familiar with java. But putting a $220 price tag in front of that ids a major bar for any interest it could garner. And thats why I think; like you said, a seperate "Java upgrade" pack *would* be a good idea, but packaging it will the developer version is very silly. The developer version should be nothing more then a licensed, professional version as is commonplace in development software. It would be nice to see an upgrade pack in the future.
Posted by Josh Whelchel 19th December, 2007

Well, here is some insight from me.

First of all, in regards to Clickteam making a "quick buck." It seems a little weird that you would use the word "quick" to describe a feature that has taken the development team at Clickteam several months. I would imagine that the 'quick' buck is a well deserved 'buck,' anyway, if you could consider how monumental it is to take a program developed in C++ with all of the advantages of the Windows API and try and squeeze it into JAVA's graphical API. Impressive.

Second. You can still build Java applets with MMF2: Standard. Quick question for you, have you ever RUN a java application? Do you know the difference? Java APPLETs are what you have running on your webpages, cellphones, and the like, not Java Applications. In fact, Java Applications are sort of a means by JAVA's developers to wrap up a JAVA applet in a pseudo-standalone environment.

You're not missing out on anything in Standard. Clickteam will not be pulling any plugs with HWA, but reasonable expectations might be not seeing a built in Shader editor in Standard and having to cope with doing things in Notepad. OH NO, because guess what, you still get the same runtime support... oh wait? What's that? Just like the JAVA support?

Stop complaining.
Posted by d_ 19th December, 2007

Guys, with java and hardware acceleration the clickers will move one step ahead! A new era of clicking is starting. I haven't buy any click products so far but I will buy MMF2 DEV now and I think Clickteam deserves every single euro
Posted by Pixelthief 19th December, 2007

No matter how you phrase it, how you commend it, its the same thing. If you want to compile a java application, you'll need to buy the version of MMF2 and pay for a commercial license.
Posted by Stephen [NeonairGames] 19th December, 2007

no, if you want to compile a java application, JUST LEARN JAVA!
Posted by X_Sheep 19th December, 2007

Posted by Josh Whelchel 19th December, 2007

Haha Pixelthief. There is no rephrasing or anything. You can COMPILE a java APPLET, which is essentially a JAVA APPLICATION.

What java applications have you used, and what are you missing without them? When you can tell me that, let me know.
Posted by Superfunk 19th December, 2007

I'm waiting for a more complete version of the Java improvement and for all extensions to be converted before I upgrade.
Posted by Steve Harris 19th December, 2007

Pixelthief = idiot
Posted by Pixelthief 19th December, 2007

Well if I'm an idiot I guess that puts you on the level of fucking retard?
Posted by Muz 20th December, 2007

"Odds are if MMF2 becomes better known, cracked and modded versions will be bountiful :/"
If MMF2 was better known, it'd make a hell lot more money too, the modded/cracked versions are an unfortunate side effect.. but the extra purchases should cover that.

I'm not against Clickteam making a quick buck. They need it. But I'm against making a quick buck against making lots of long-term bucks. Let's face it, Vitalize won't ever become a world standard. The big, ugly "CLICK" scares off all my friends from playing it, because it looks like a virus. Many of my friends don't even download Java, they use it because it's 'built-in'.

But.. you can make Java applets with MMF2 Std. So I don't really see what the problem is. Why does anyone want Java apps?
Posted by Eternal Man [EE] 20th December, 2007

I want Java apples!
Coffea and fruit, the perfect snack!
Posted by Superfunk 20th December, 2007

"Why does anyone want Java apps?"

I want them because then I can make games for Linux, Macintosh, and mobile devices. And I have the develper version.
Posted by Steve Harris 20th December, 2007

@ Pixelthief: Correct! I thought nobody would ever notice!
Posted by Pixelthief 20th December, 2007

Serious Muz; All the programmers I hang out with, take classes with; "Klik" is like a swear word. You say it and people laugh. And when you consider that probably over half the people who have vitalize installed are people who write klik games, it makes you appreciate how much the java applets can give a further reach. And thats all well and good for developing online games, but what % of klik games are browser based? :/ by far the majority of homebrew games end up as applications, and it would be very nice to see them run on mac/linux/mobile.
Posted by Josh Whelchel 20th December, 2007

Those mobile applications you speak of are actually applets. Funny.

Klik may be a "swear" word to serious programmers, but only judgmental ones who don't really realize what Clickteam products stand for. If you can program something better for your own needs, by all means, go ahead and do it. I think that Clickteam products have numerous limitations, and by design, of course they do.

Your point is a valid one Pixelthief, that it kinda sucks that you have to pay a little extra for something that you feel should be a standard feature. At the same time, there are plenty of features in Photoshop CS3 that I think should be in CS3 Elements, and plenty of features in MSVC2005 that should be in MSVC++ Express, but they simple aren't, and that's a business model, and last I checked, it's working pretty well.

Clickteam is doing hot financially, and they seem to be doing a pretty good job of sticking to their audience.

Besides, I don't really even know what all the fuss is about Java anyway. You know what all the programmers I hang out with laugh about, Pixelthief? The words "managed code," "virtual machine," "hypocrite," and "judgmental."
Posted by »xerus 20th December, 2007

Man, PixelTheif, you need to hang out with more open minded programmers. They sound like their egos are getting the best of them.

Klik should be just as acceptable as any other game, and in fact it is just by looking at the IGF finalists. In the end, the user doesn't care if your game was made in Multimedia Fusion or if it was made from scratch on an adding machine.
Posted by nim 20th December, 2007

The reason I'm miffed is because MMF2 Dev is no longer just MMF2 "with a development license". As long as Clickteam release more things exclusively for MMF2 Dev, it'll gradually become a separate product (like MMF2 is to TGF2.)
Posted by Pixelthief 20th December, 2007

I agree klik games should be better understood by the programming community at large; I develop almost exclusively in TGF, if you haven't noticed. I sit in a lecture the other day, and the people behind me are discussing Within a Deep Forest/Knytt. But I'm also a realist; thats how they are viewed for the most part. But I think Nim is getting at the point; developer should be nothing more then a licensing fee for releasing commercial products. And Java compatibility is a huge step towards expanding klik to appeal to more programmers; people who are familiar with java will want to check it out.
Posted by Josh Whelchel 20th December, 2007

I definitely agree, it is like MMF2 Dev is separating itself. Whether it's a good or bad thing I can't really say (:


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