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New MMF2 Build 249 and HWA Build 3
News posted 13th March, 2009 by Assault Andy  
Clickteam today released a new build of MMF2, build 249 (beta). They also released the third public beta of their Hardware Accelerated version of MMF2.

Build 249 contains some really exciting features especially "the final version of the Java runtime, a new Java Mac build option (MMF2 Developer), and a new Java runtime for mobile devices and BlackBerry (MMF2 Developer)." This is in addition to a huge range of bug fixes and optimizations including maintaining aspect ratio in fullscreen applications on widescreen computers.

The new build of HWA contains the ability for fullscreen applications as well as a new display mode and pixel shader version.

Get MMF2 Build 249 here

Get MMF2 HWA Build 3 here

A new build of TGF2 is also available which features many of the same bugfixes as the MMF2 update:
Get TGF2 Build 249 here




Posted by Jonathan Lake 13th March, 2009

first! awesome!
 
Posted by MJK 13th March, 2009

The Java mobile runtime is a milestone in Click history, if it just works / if they can continue improving it.
Comment edited by MJK on 3/13/2009
 
Posted by W3R3W00F 13th March, 2009

Awesome! I was wondering when they'd get a new build!
 
Posted by Peblo 13th March, 2009

I'll have to see if it works on my BlackBerry. Someone wanna donate MMF2Dev?
 
Posted by alastair john jack 13th March, 2009

Just get someone who has Dev to compile for you.
 
Posted by -J- 13th March, 2009

Did they make it so you can use the expression editor to calculate the position of creating an object? So far you can just use "Relative to" or an exact position.
 
Posted by Cecilectomy 13th March, 2009

finally!!
 
Posted by Johnny Look 13th March, 2009

omg omg omg omg omg fucking finally
 
Posted by Ecstazy 13th March, 2009

Awww, I was so excited I didn't read properly and thought the build is final. Image
Comment edited by Ecstazy on 3/13/2009
 
Posted by Eternal Man [EE] 13th March, 2009

Heh, most people get excited over new builds, not turned off. I think you're gonna miss out on something nice.

And way to go clickteam!
That's the only good thing about being a poor student, by the time I can finally afford MMF2 they have had time to implent a lot more new and exciting stuff!
 
Posted by OMC 13th March, 2009

Amateurish? O__o Ok.

Now I just have to save up for MMF2 and I'm set!
 
Posted by Blue66 13th March, 2009

F*cking finally! HWA+Fullscreen = <3
 
Posted by nim 13th March, 2009

Do you need the CD to install this new build?

Edit: ffffffff yes you do. My CD is in the UK.
Comment edited by Nim on 3/13/2009
 
Posted by Dr. James MD 13th March, 2009

The latest HWA is buuuug-eeee.
 
Posted by Dr. James MD 13th March, 2009

And WTF! them new qualifiers are rubbish. Going back to 248 until they're fixed.
 
Posted by UrbanMonk 13th March, 2009

Everything works fine for me! It is awesome! Lots of my projects that didn't work with HWA work now!
 
Posted by Dr. James MD 13th March, 2009

Other way round for me! Gradients still aren't supported it seems, but also the Window Size thingy object doesn't work either (think it used to?), alpha channels are broke. Plus theres one hell of a funky motion blur.
The older beta used to display alphas okay for me.
 
Posted by W3R3W00F 13th March, 2009

I'm thinking about installing 249, but I'm too lazy atm. I just downloaded HWA but I couldn't see a big diff. :|
 
Posted by Cazra 13th March, 2009

I'll update when I get back to the university. My CD is at the dorm. =(

The Java builds are cool, but I'd rather just hardcode Java. Javax.swing ftw.
 
Posted by Silveraura 13th March, 2009

Woo! ArcaneTale is finally seeing full screen for it's first time. I love it.
 
Posted by Codemonkey 13th March, 2009

Sweet, installing them now...
 
Posted by Clickers 13th March, 2009

"Maybe that was the goal (the whole selling to schools business)"

@RayRayTea, It was posted very much incorrectly on the Daily Click a few months ago that selling to schools had an impact on the development of the product... this was untrue...it has no impact as the people doing the selling do no development at all. Just wanted to clear that up

If anyone has any bugs with the latest beta software, I recommend if possible uploading an example file to the clickteam forums.
 
Posted by MJK 13th March, 2009

The Java mobile is absolutely great. I'm having a blast playing "Earthquake Madness! 2" on my N78. Sure it's slow and some extensions are still missing, but hey, it's mobile. This will open a whole new era for Click developers and Clickteam themselves. Two thumbs up.
 
Posted by UrbanMonk 13th March, 2009

I tried making a java mobile app run on an java emulator called pspkvm on my psp, but it didn't work.
 
Posted by Johnny Look 13th March, 2009

ok after playing with the new build all afternoon and considering I was waiting over a year for this update, I can't help but feel disapointed with this update. Sure it's a beta but not much will be done until the release a stable version. To start: the possiblity of exporting java games for mobiles (which was something I was really looking forward to) is full of problems. Sometimes the exported apps work, sometimes they don't, and I don't quite understand why. But the worst is, because of the architecture of MMF2, the java apps are slow as hell. This means you will not be able to compete with games on the mobile market, as you can only use few objects to make a playable game. Another bad thing is that the players won't be able to save.
Also the qualifiers as already stated, they simply suck. The fancy icons and names are useless and they can't be renamed.
The HWA build has still a lot of problems, and judging by some people, has gotten worse and brought more bugs.



To sum up:

I'm very disapointed.




Comment edited by Johnny Look on 3/13/2009
 
Posted by Ricky 13th March, 2009

what do you expect Johnny, it was released Friday the 13th Image
Comment edited by RickyG on 3/13/2009
 
Posted by OMC 13th March, 2009


 
Posted by Dustin Gunn 13th March, 2009

Anyone excited about the new HWA build really needs to check out the latest release of Construct. It'll blow your mind how much better it is. There's literally no reason to use MMF over it when it comes to hardware acceleration.
 
Posted by Ricky 13th March, 2009

I have a good list of reasons.
1. I'm used to MMF2
2. It would be too much work to copy all the work I've done in MMF to construct
3. Construct isn't stable yet (is it?)
4. Using construct is immoral
 
Posted by Dr. James MD 13th March, 2009

As I said in my project update-

The biggest problem is organisation. Previously they were ordered. Now they're just random, not alphabetical, not numerical. Nothing. Just hope you remember where a group was when trying to make a game.
IMO that's a really stupid design oversight.
But why did we need new fixed names? We didn't! We wanted editable names, and at a pinch qualifiers in global events and behaviours.

So. Construct HWA is better? After my current project I'll give it a proper go.
 
Posted by OMC 13th March, 2009

D:
 
Posted by Ski 14th March, 2009

"Anyone excited about the new HWA build really needs to check out the latest release of Construct. It'll blow your mind how much better it is."

Even if it's better, that's like giving a power tool to a bunch of women, or trying to make a dog and cat interbreed.
 
Posted by Ricky 14th March, 2009

LOL
 
Posted by Silveraura 14th March, 2009

I've used Construct on more then once occasion, and have kept going back to see how it's improved and have found absolutely nothing but pure disappointment.

Multimedia Fusion 2 is matured over generations of past software, and is a remarkable application. How dare you bring such trash to this website. That's like coming over and saying Game Maker is better. Pathetic.
 
Posted by Ski 14th March, 2009

"How dare you bring such trash to this website." Well unfortunatley that's what's happening now. Rikus is even changing the name just to suit the minority, and mainly because he wants more site traffic. It doesn't matter how many years we've used Clickteam products, apparently loyality doesn't come into it.
 
Posted by Jon C-B 14th March, 2009

Yay! Just downloaded it and I'm very pleased!!! Huzzah!
 
Posted by Blue66 14th March, 2009

lol Jon is pleased with Construct! Burn him alive!!!


...oh wait, he meant the new update. Well, don't burn him then. (for now)...
 
Posted by Rikus 14th March, 2009

hey how come i was thrown into this lol.
Comment edited by Rikus on 3/14/2009
 
Posted by Pkeod 14th March, 2009

http://create-games.com/project.asp?id=1447&view=news&fid=1604

Early alpha of FS running on a Nokia 6120 Classic using the new MMF update!
 
Posted by Dr. James MD 14th March, 2009

Rikus you'll never know.
But I think expanding the site would be a good idea. We don't get many new regulars here, would be nice to broaden the audience and get more visitors.
 
Posted by OMC 14th March, 2009

PFFFFFFFFF!
 
Posted by Dustin Gunn 14th March, 2009

It's just tools, there's no need to have loyalty to them one way or the other.

I dismissed construct until last week, but it really is getting so easy to use and it doesn't choke-hold high end users. It also has the advantage of being made with graphics cards in mind, so sprites are automatically polygon-based with great built-in shader control.

You make your own "qualifiers" (called families here), name them, give them icons, and more importantly, they can be used globally. Event sheets are also not associated with frames so can be used like objects are in C++, which is awesome.
 
Posted by Cecilectomy 14th March, 2009

is clickteam down right now? keeps "server is not responding". cant download ;___;
 
Posted by Assault Andy 14th March, 2009

You're right, it does appear to be down now. It was working a couple of hours ago.

Edit: Now it's working again.
Comment edited by Assault Andy on 3/14/2009
 
Posted by Cecilectomy 14th March, 2009

it is indeed. i didnt notice the (beta). seems like theres too many bugs, unwanted differences. ill wait till an official build release.
 
Posted by Marko 14th March, 2009

Moving off subject slightly, i do think catering for other users who use MMF-rivals as dev tools is a good thing for this site if the community is to grow. Sure it's expected to divide opinions of existing community members, but i liken it to evolution; things don't improve if they fail to evolve. Sure i'd like this to remain Click-only and have the community expand every week, however the reality is that isn't going to happen any time soon.

Therefore for the community to thrive we must look at alternatives to keeping it Click-only. And great work by Rikus for almost single-handedly keeping this site updated over the last few weeks/months Image

Just had an idea, Rikus; how about a poll for people to vote on whether they prefer the new builds/updates/betas or not?
Comment edited by Mark Radon on 3/14/2009
Comment edited by Mark Radon on 3/14/2009
 
Posted by Ski 14th March, 2009

"would be nice to broaden the audience and get more visitors."

Clubsoft informed me the site usually gets around 5-10 sign ups a day as it is... why does the site need more?
 
Posted by Dr. James MD 14th March, 2009

And as I said; "We don't get many new regulars here"

Would be nice if the comment sniping stopped too but we can't have everything.
How many people who have posted on this page been here more than 1 year?
 
Posted by Ski 14th March, 2009

Comment sniping? I was merely picking up on something clubsoft had told me last thing last night, James. Why you think the whole world revolves around you, I don't know
 
Posted by Dr. James MD 14th March, 2009

Then why end informing with a question? And why the sniping in projects and downloads? I only ever see you replying to the same people and as someone told me it's always a condensing comment.
Comment edited by Dr. James on 3/14/2009
 
Posted by Ski 14th March, 2009

Or just yourself, because that's all you think about... And by comments on downloads you mean Tom's game, then yeah, my reply to you was really quite valid. You knitt picked over the tiniest minor "problems" that weren't clearly even valid to the majority of people.
 
Posted by Dr. James MD 14th March, 2009

*Nitpicked, like each of your posts on my project page? I'm very picky and I go into depth with my comments on the games I play rather than just posting something as unhelpful as "OMG i wuv this!".
Kind of how like some people were on a certain project that just resulted in you lambasting them who were offering constructive criticism with some personal attacks thrown in for good measure.
Comment edited by Dr. James on 3/14/2009
 
Posted by Ski 14th March, 2009

"I'm very picky and I go into depth with my comments on the games"

Um.. you came out with some complete nonsense on Tom's game, about how you couldnt differenciate between two types of water, when it's perfectly obvious which one you weren't supposed to enter? And that you didn't know the spikes were dangerous, even though they blatantly are? I didn't think the thousands of red particles in Tormishire were dangerous until I realised that's how you make the game hard
 
Posted by Dr. James MD 14th March, 2009

Yet something as popular as Yoshi's Island had opaque water up front that you're able to swim in. Going off my experience in that game I was lead to believe I would at least float in that water. Games don't normally have both, but wtf this is an argument for his download page so bringing it up here is as crazy as bringing up Rikus and Tormi
Btw in psychology and nature red=warning, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red at the Symbolism chapter
 
Posted by Ski 14th March, 2009

Yoshi's Island? Im getting confused now, talking about that AND Tormishire at the same time As for colour theories, they can be rainbow coloured for all I care, my point is that you have hundreds of them at any one time and expect players to avoid them
 
Posted by Dr. James MD 14th March, 2009

My new testers seem to be capable enough, and for performance reasons they've always been limited to 20. *shrugs*
 
Posted by Ski 14th March, 2009

"Yet something as popular as Yoshi's Island had opaque water up front that you're able to swim in. Going off my experience in that game I was lead to believe I would at least float in that water."

Believe it or not, James, games do differ Follow the fruit trail, fall in the water and lose a life, or hit a spike and lose a life- it's a learning curve yet it's still made perfectly apparent.
 
Posted by OMC 14th March, 2009

For the record, I went, "PFFFFF" because that will never happen. If we try to expand, some/most of the clickers will despise the constructers and the snobbish constructers won't have anything to do with us. Yes, MMFers can be snobbish too. But in trying to be objective in such observations, I have found that many times constructers beat us out in that area.
 
Posted by Marko 14th March, 2009

@-Adam- the site needs more because it doesn't feel like we're getting enough new members who are regular contributers and/or regularly active on the forums. There seems to be 15-20 regulars who are the most prominent. I would love to see closer to 60!
 
Posted by Marko 14th March, 2009

OMC is right, there will be 'fall out' if more none-Click users join. However, the night is darkest before the dawn and i believe the 'snobs' (of which you and i are defo not!) will eventually disappear or change their attitudes to fit in and the site will benefit in the long run.
 
Posted by Ski 14th March, 2009

60 prominent posters? I wouldnt. And good luck keeping them in check with the admins here.
 
Posted by Marko 14th March, 2009

Personal preferrence i guess. And there would need to be more admins too, true. However with 60 prominent posters, i'm sure you'd have plenty of volunteers!
Comment edited by Mark Radon on 3/14/2009
 
Posted by alastair john jack 14th March, 2009

People put their games on sites that they
 
Posted by Johnny Look 14th March, 2009

This sentence made me lol pretty hard:

"How dare you bring such trash to this website. That's like coming over and saying Game Maker is better. Pathetic. "

rofl why is it pathetic ?

It gets increasingly funny to see all the clickteam fanboys shitting their pants because of a free dev software that is still in it's beta stages. That sounds way more pathetic to me.
 
Posted by Dr. James MD 14th March, 2009

"Yes, MMFers can be snobbish too."

Can? Look up for evidence on this page alone.

Fact is CT charge for a good app that is sparsely updated (how long from 248>249 beta?).
Fact is Construct is constantly getting better, is free and (apparently) more powerful than MMF2.
 
Posted by Marko 14th March, 2009

Both valid facts. I'm only still using MMF2 because it fulfills my current desires and i already own it, not because i think Construct is crap (because i'm actually impressed by it) or because i have any loyalty to Clickteam, why would i? That would not be in my own best interests.
 
Posted by Silveraura 14th March, 2009

The only reason Construct is even free is because Clickteam laid the law down on their ass. So that's a pretty weak rope to throw Construct considering it's already fail-prone for a number of other reasons without people trying to save it with flimsy hope.
 
Posted by OMC 14th March, 2009

I have faith in Clickteam. There's nothing wrong with supporting them for the sole reason of supporting them, and to a degree I feel I owe them for making such fantastic products that have pioneered game making. I have got WAY more out of TGF than I paid for. These really are genius tools.

I'm not a constructer secondly (first is Ricky's reasons) because of the downright annoying attitude I was confronted with at scirra. They all dissed Clickteam and its community treated me like I was coming to the bright side. I want no part of that crap. Especially when the tool is not worth switching to. There really is no feature in construct that makes it look good to me.
 
Posted by Dr. James MD 14th March, 2009

So it's cool to 'diss' Scirra back?



Personally I hold no loyalty to any software. If a rival to iTunes came along that was a 1:1 clone but with the ability to autofill video I'd use that. I see no reason in limiting myself if there is a better product on the market because then it's only me that suffers.

Tis why I use both OSX and XP, why I play both DS and PSP, why I put both chalk and cheese on my toast.

Just seems to me that there's a lot of immature rumblings going on with this on both sides, but beyond the politics Construct is getting better. With them forming a potential software rival all CT can do is make their own software better... Which is why I find the CT fanboys who slag Scirra off quite hilarious.
Comment edited by Dr. James on 3/14/2009
 
Posted by OMC 14th March, 2009

I'm not dissing them. I'm saying I was frustrated that they tried to tout construct as a superior program for superior-minded people. I don't do that with MMF. Heck, I don't even have MMF. But construct was made with a mindset I don't want. (Nothing against Ashley, he's a cool dude. It's the other people)

By the way, if you don't like "clickteam fanboys" you can go if you want. Pretending that you're reasoning outside of the argument makes you look silly. There are constructers, MMFers, and then the weird people in between who try to look good for both sides and laugh at MMFers for not appreciating Construct, but don't just jump in and leave MMF behind. "Current projects" yea, whatever.
Comment edited by OldManClayton on 3/14/2009
 
Posted by Silveraura 14th March, 2009

Your logic makes sense in writing James, but where it fails to actually hold water is the fact that Construct is not this piece of Godlike software you speak of. It's actually quite the exact opposite. It's most prominent use is for making tech demos that make other people who make tech demos, piss their pants in joy of what they can now do. No one has ever actually completed anything of any decency with that software.
 
Posted by Dr. James MD 14th March, 2009

I don't speak of it as godlike. I speak of it as a continually improving piece of software. As it stands today I'd much rather use MMF2 but I'm not holding a baseless loyalty to CT if Construct does manage to overtake.
 
Posted by Marko 14th March, 2009

Ditto to what the Dr. said. MMF is king now but if it is overtaken, i'll be switching!
 
Posted by OMC 14th March, 2009

Why is this a problem then? If construct isn't worthy of switching to yet, why don't we just leave it alone until it is? Sounds like construct is really inflated, even by people who pretend not to inflate it.
 
Posted by Dr. James MD 14th March, 2009

Why is it a problem? Just by mentioning it brings some users up with a nasty inflammation.
As a doctor I see this problem on a frequent basis.
 
Posted by OMC 14th March, 2009

That is a good point. But why bring it up if it's not worth arguing over yet?
Comment edited by OldManClayton on 3/14/2009
 
Posted by Blue66 14th March, 2009

People I think some of you need fresh air. I would love to see some more people on this site because most 'old skoolers' here tend to fight eachother more than they help the new people.

Second fact is the update rate of MMF2. It plain sucks. Construct gets updated multiple times a month, which is really good. MMF2 ...well, one update every year? That's way too slow. The Clickteam devs are obviously primarily working on their new product and they more or less have abandoned MMF2. That's the sad truth. And if the new product will not attract a very high number of new users, Clickteam will go under.

If things stay like they are now I will leave MMF2 behind as time will show Construct (and all other dev programs) will keep getting better and better with every update and MMF2 still struggles getting basic things running (as HWA or global qualifiers which should be an absolute MUST these days).

I hate to say that because I like working with MMF2. But if things stay like they are now, MMF2 will go down. And this site will go down with it if you don't make up your minds (or Clickteam does, but I highly doubt that).

Just my 2 cents.
 
Posted by Silveraura 14th March, 2009

Construct is updated multiple times a month because it actually needs it. MMF2 is matured. That's like expecting an adult to grow just as fast as a prepubescent teenager who's balls haven't dropped yet.
 
Posted by Codemonkey 14th March, 2009

This new HWA is worse then before... ;_;
 
Posted by Marko 14th March, 2009

Just like McLaren's new car. Let us hope both are fixed soon!
 
Posted by W3R3W00F 14th March, 2009

I'm gone for one night (And of course, I forgot to log off again. ) and 82 comments already! ':| As for Construct, I think I'd stick with MMF2 just because I used it longer, and personally I believe it's better. Plus, I've never even USED Construct.
 
Posted by Marko 14th March, 2009

Hello W3r3w00f!
 
Posted by Ski 14th March, 2009

To be honest it's all down to talent in the end. If you've got the skills you'll be able to make something like Noitu Love 2 or Project Roller Coaster even, and make a name for yourself. If you hardly make anything decent and just like to sit around marvelling over the "wonders" of construct, get a job in sales.
 
Posted by OMC 14th March, 2009

Yes, we're back to the usual, "Let's make games!" resolve.

I agree with this novel idea.
 
Posted by Rikus 14th March, 2009

Oh my 83 comments after falling to sleep, lol! For the site me and club are always looking to grow and improve, first step to do that is the upcoming very cool Arcade!. (yay) Secondly the name of the site has to change in order for us to grow and attract new people, advertising create-games instead of the tdc name makes much more sense for outside people in reality. And besides if you want the name of the site to remain you will be able to pick a tdc skin problem solved But if you think about it, it just makes sense to do so.

My opinion of the build, when push comes to umm click, it is only a beta, granted maybe clickteam should only test out betas to a certain group of people who sign up for such a service and report back comments and bugs directly to clickteam instead of having the entire community "try" this beta out.

I do agree with others that I wish there were more updates in the course of the year. Other then that I am always glad when the software gets updated and I hope this beta version quickly moves into a real production version that is solid.
 
Posted by Marko 14th March, 2009

I don't think that's a fair comment - you could also say that "if you've got skills then you'll be able to make something like Counter Strike or GTR, and even make a name for yourself. If you hardly make anything decent and just like to sit around marvelling over the "wonders" of MMF, get a job at Clickteam."

Clickteam have had a 15-odd year head start on Construct, give it some credit even if you don't like it. Like i do.
 
Posted by Eternal Man [EE] 14th March, 2009

Hubba! That's a lot of comments for one day!

I on my part feel perfectly calm. I'm an "MMF Fanboy" if you will. I'll continue using MMF, ecause I love the interface, until there is no way that I can make reality of my current visions about a project with it, i.e when MMF's real limitations show.

And there's where the joyeous truth lies. I won't get good enough at utilizing MMF's real potential in a very very long time! I'm still working to perfect projects in MMF 1.2! I'll be like a kid on christmas when I switch to MMF2, with it's enormous capabilities compared to what I'm used to. So I have a loooong way to go before I have to even think about switching development app.

I think people should use the tool that best fits their skill/need. Switching to Construct just because you can make real nice effects easily is a waste if you can't make a decent game to put them in yet.

And feeling loyalty to Clickteam isn't bad in any way. You can still feel loyalty towards Clickteam even if you change dev-app to construct, as long as you don't switch mindset along with the dev-app. You simply switch cause you need to. Not any more complicated than that.

And about this community, sure, it would be nice with an all-klik site, but the ste would grow way faster if you made it a gamemaking site instead of a klik site. It would of course mean quite the warring for a time during the shift. But it would settle, it usually does.
 
Posted by Blue66 14th March, 2009

A program being 'mature' is a lazy excuse. MMF2 lacks major features of modern competitors and you say it's 'mature'? There is much room for updates and if they don't come more frequently in the near future there is no need anymore to stick to MMF2 - except you're making a new pong game... which will run fine if you have at least a 2gig processor...
 
Posted by Marko 14th March, 2009

Good points; you surely "ain't no fool, sucker!"

(this is to EE, BTW)
Comment edited by Mark Radon on 3/14/2009
 
Posted by Jeff - Clickteam 14th March, 2009

Thanks for your comments on the new beta builds.

The programmers at Clickteam appreciate the bug reports so they can hammer out any remaining issues.

The information and reports you have sent in have been helpful in tracking down problems.

I do have one wish -- I wish at least once a thread at TDC about what Clickteam is doing didn't become a flame war between users of different products.

If you have found a product you like to use more by all means go use it. I am not sure if a thread about the new build of TGF/MMF is the place to argue with others who have chosen a different product to use.

 
Posted by Rikus 14th March, 2009

!!This just in from the clickteam news section!!!

From Jeff: I am glad to announce Ross P/Greyhill has joined Clickteam as a programmer.

Ross has been working with us for a long time converting extensions over to the Java runtime and continues to work in this area converting more extensions.""
---------------------------

Would be nice if we could get a introduction, but I say the more programmers the better! Thumbs up!

 
Posted by Marko 14th March, 2009

Sounds great, congratulations Ross!
 
Posted by OMC 14th March, 2009

*Jigs*

 
Posted by Dr. James MD 14th March, 2009

If this will help improve MMF2 then

Btw just tried out them new Construct demos, those are some mighty fine effects. Skybox, fire and 3D car engine? Wowz.
Comment edited by Dr. James on 3/14/2009
 
Posted by Silveraura 14th March, 2009

I think you're missing a major aspect of MMF2 that Construct doesn't have. An aspect of MMF2 that makes it so much more powerful then Construct will ever be until it achieves this kind of support.

Most of MMF2's power comes from it's strong support from people who dedicate time and effort to making amazing extensions which expand on it's capabilities.
 
Posted by OMC 14th March, 2009

The reason MMF2's HWA is a bit sketchy is that it's already got a TON of history and architecture that needs to be adapted to it. Construct is built around HWA... So while Construct's HWA is more powerful at the moment, MMF2 will catch up eventually and in the longer run, MMF3 will have much better support than MMF2.

I'm not arguing for one or the other here, just saying.
Comment edited by OldManClayton on 3/14/2009
 
Posted by Dr. James MD 14th March, 2009

Whereas Scirra seem to be adding in new things right into Construct rather than rely on the community to add new features. And the trump card of expandability is that Construct is open source.
 
Posted by OMC 14th March, 2009

Open sourceness can cause trouble too. Openoffice, GIMP, and Inkscape drive me nuts because they have unnecessary gunkage and weird requirements like no docking. Open source doesn't make a difference if you don't know how to program. Extensions and direct plug-innage don't really differ all too much here.
 
Posted by Clickers 14th March, 2009

cant you just go and make your own thread or something James, rather than going on and on about another product in a CT announcement thread...lol
 
Posted by Dr. James MD 14th March, 2009

Because then we would just end up with 2 flame laced threads.
Welcome to TDClique!
Comment edited by Dr. James on 3/14/2009
 
Posted by OMC 14th March, 2009

I wouldn't associate this with Cliques. Those involve teenage girls who are condescending. Granted, some TDC members are about that mature, but it's not like that. Calling it a clique is insulting.

This is, after all, a click website. Oh look, the New York Times website isn't allowing the Enquirer readers to post about that newspaper on their website. For shame! They should expand.
Comment edited by OldManClayton on 3/14/2009
 
Posted by Dr. James MD 14th March, 2009

Oh I would. I definitely would.

It's not the whole site though; a clique is just a group within a larger group.
 
Posted by Ricky 14th March, 2009

Now I feel like playing Jeff Pwns
 
Posted by Silveraura 14th March, 2009

James, you started the whole thing to begin with by trying to advertise for Scirra. An incomplete program no less, too. Maybe you could just let it go and let people use whatever they want.
 
Posted by Dr. James MD 14th March, 2009

Ctrl+f
"Dr. James"
Number of my comments telling people to use Construct
None.

Don't confuse FUD removal as advertising and telling people what apps they should use.
 
Posted by Ricky 14th March, 2009

Dustin Gun brought up Scirra
 
Posted by Eternal Man [EE] 14th March, 2009

That Jeff is a real lurker!
Showing up in comments sections all over the place!
Feels kinda' good to see Clickteam doing some real fieldwork for feedback.

And I have never actually heard the expression Clique before, granted I am from Sweden, but still...
 
Posted by Ski 14th March, 2009

He's not a Lurker, he just probably doesnt want to be seen too much on TDC, and after this crap can you blame him?
 
Posted by AshleysBrain 14th March, 2009

Hey, I'm Ashley from Scirra if you didn't know. I just want to echo what Jeff said. I know we've had our differences in the past, but seriously everyone, this is ridiculous. If you don't want to use Construct, I welcome you to use an alternative. I actually still advise people against using it for anything serious, because until 1.0, it is experimental beta software.

I don't think any of the developers of any party here want to see this kind of wrangling. Wouldn't this place be much nicer for everyone without it? The differences between the tools available are well-documented and well-known. The new release in this news post introduces some features you'll probably never see in Construct, for example. Make your choice, but quit the arguing. Everyone knows what the pros and cons are.
 
Posted by Cecilectomy 14th March, 2009

"The only reason Construct is even free is because Clickteam laid the law down on their ass. So that's a pretty weak rope to throw Construct considering it's already fail-prone for a number of other reasons without people trying to save it with flimsy hope. "

wrong? its been free since ive known about it which if i remember was before anything BETWEEN CT and Scirra ever happened.

"Your logic makes sense in writing James, but where it fails to actually hold water is the fact that Construct is not this piece of Godlike software you speak of. It's actually quite the exact opposite. It's most prominent use is for making tech demos that make other people who make tech demos, piss their pants in joy of what they can now do. No one has ever actually completed anything of any decency with that software."

neither does yours. construct is a beta, and FACT, everyone who develops and supports it strongly reccoment that NO ONE start on a long term project, BECAUSE its in beta and is unstable (edit: see ashleys post above). stop stating things everyone already knows yet is of complete irrelevance. it IS getting better and theres no reason to get upset that anyone would point that out.

i'm starting to understand why posts even mentioning construct used to be immediately deleted. if i was an admin anyone who blatently and repeatedly mouthed off about something such as this touchy subject would be banned in a matter of seconds. its not about you. its not about me. its about the community and arguments like this need to stop, otherwise youre going to ruin the thing you love so much.

bringeth the f*ck on. construct and mmf gamemaker and rpgmaker, red and yellow black and white
Comment edited by Cecil on 3/14/2009
 
Posted by Ski 14th March, 2009

"Hey, I'm Ashley from Scirra if you didn't know. I just want to echo what Jeff said. I know we've had our differences in the past, but seriously everyone, this is ridiculous."

A few weeks ago you were fueling a thread on scirra which was solely made to slag Clickteam off. No offence but you're being a bit of a hypocrit.
 
Posted by Ricky 14th March, 2009

Cecil: "red and yellow black and white"
they are precious in his sight
jesus loves the children of the world
 
Posted by Pkeod 14th March, 2009

Cecil, it was for sale before. You can ask Ashley the full story if you want.

Development may have seemed to be slow, but really there was a lot of work done, and more than just the HWA projects that Clickteam had to take care of. Construct may have more regular updates, but it's also open source, and it's also still a product very early in development compared to MMF2 which -- this has been said before -- has years of programming put into it. I think we all owe a lot to Clickteam because their software was probably the first time most of us got into really being able to make games. I remember struggling with C++ trying to do everything, and once I found the Clickteam software it was like a dream come true.

Also... a word about HWA. It's really cool, and opens up a lot of doors, but honestly even though it's really cool it's not a huge selling point for commercial developers: the reason? Core/indie games don't sell as well as casual games. You can have the best shooter, and an average casual game will sell 10x more units. You don't need HWA for casual games.

Anyway, if anyone new wanted to get into games commercially I honestly would recommend them get into Python and Pygame, as these tools can allow you to compile to Windows, Mac, and Linux. Sadly MMF2 cannot do this, though the Java runtime has promise, until there is enough functionality and stability to run commercial games I won't even rely on it getting to that point.

Another product that's coming out soon for Windows is Unity. The Windows IDE is coming out soon, while the Mac version has been out for a while. Unity allows for cross platform compiling, is amazing in so many ways, and it can be used to make both 2d and 3d games.

I don't think this site should just be about Clickteam games. As more software comes out that makes it convenient to make games, they become more relevant, and more games get made. Still, Clickteam is awesome, and I hope everyone on here continues to support them.
 
Posted by Chloe Sagal 14th March, 2009

*sings* why cant we be friends, why cant we be friends, why cant we be friends, why cant we be friends?

does anyone want any cheese to go with their whine?
 
Posted by Cecilectomy 14th March, 2009

@pkoed - i was unaware. it seemed to be a bit quiet before the .8 betas. and it was free after that. i dont see how it could have ever been for sale since it was so early on in development. perhaps it was more of the idea of possibly selling it? i doubt ill ask since i dont really care. but if an answer comes, i'll gladly welcome it. but my other points still stand.

@pkoed again - about unity. its more or less a library isnt it? then using the unity plugin to play as browser based games.
i.e. the guys over at flashbang

Cecil: "red and yellow black and white"
they are precious in his sight
jesus loves the children of the world"

that he does. that. he. does. Image
Comment edited by Cecil on 3/14/2009
 
Posted by MJK 14th March, 2009

120 comments, good activity. Never mind the content..
 
Posted by AshleysBrain 14th March, 2009

Adam, I know. As I said, we've had our differences. On our forum I don't like to censor discussion of any topic, nor do I wish to hold back on talking about the views I hold should someone ask me. However, this has gone too far after too long. It's time to move on and accepted the status quo, and I acknowledge I would be the guilty one in being the last to act against that. For what it's worth, I promise I will never bring up these tired old issues ever again. I've now said everything I could possibly want to say on the subject. Truce, anyone?
 
Posted by Ricky 14th March, 2009

The end
 
Posted by Silveraura 14th March, 2009

@Cecil, if you don't care for the answer then why did you try to tell me I was wrong? Your reasoning was based off of assumptions, which your admitted. If I'm not mistaken, at one point, Scirra even admitted on their website that they had to release it open source because of a lawsuit.
 
Posted by Chloe Sagal 14th March, 2009

youre out of order! you cant handle the truth! you had me at hello! something about truffles or something! goddamit!

why dont you make like a tree... and get outta here. /relevance
 
Posted by Cecilectomy 14th March, 2009

i did not "tell" you you were wrong, i clearly formed it as a question attached to a personal experience. it HAS been free since ive known about it and i never heard anything about it ever being sold.

clearly that has NOTHING to do with my other points and is completely detached. stop detracting.
 
Posted by Ricky 14th March, 2009

"why dont you make like a tree... and get outta here. /relevance"

I love Back to the Future!

 
Posted by Pkeod 14th March, 2009

Unity can compile to run in the browser AND to desktop applications. http://unity3d.com/
 
Posted by Peblo 14th March, 2009

Can someone ban us all already?
 
Posted by Cecilectomy 14th March, 2009

/selfban
 
Posted by Silveraura 14th March, 2009

Cecil, I never cared about any of your other points, I was merely bringing to your attention the mistake you made, and how it involved me. I'm not detracting anything.
 
Posted by Chloe Sagal 14th March, 2009

"I love Back to the Future!"
I KNO! brandonCs avatar totally warrented a bttf quote, in fact, it should be a daily exercise ammongts tdc.
"Can someone ban us all already?"
its such a beautiful thing, and a great message of utmost peace when someone wants us all to be banned together. we should all ban together everyday!

okay im done being silly.
 
Posted by Cecilectomy 14th March, 2009

haha i love how all you do is keep digging yourself into a hole by completely ignoring the relevant points to point out nothing. i didnt even make a mistake. obviously its irrelevant to me if they were selling it or not, im not going to seek out an answer, and if i dont get an answer im fine but am willing to accept whatever it may be. all i said is it has been free as long as ive known about it and that had been since before ct vs scirra. ignorance is bliss brandon, have fun arguing with yourself im done.
 
Posted by Ski 14th March, 2009

Image
 
Posted by Eternal Man [EE] 14th March, 2009

Hilarious detail;
I've never been interested in Construct because I'm a calm and nice fanboy as I said in my former post. All this talk and comparison involving it made me type www.scirra.com just to look at it, and now I'm really really interested in it!
Oh the irony...

Still won't change until I would have the need to though, as I said.
 
Posted by Cecilectomy 14th March, 2009

tdc is a dysfunctional family. we fight all the time but we love each other.
 
Posted by Dustin Gunn 14th March, 2009

People still treat game making programs as if they were sports teams... I still use MMF2 and will use it until my large project is complete. I was just saying that if you're looking for hardware acceleration, LOOK ELSEWHERE.

There is no light at the end of the tunnel for MMF HWA. There were 13 months inbetween the last beta and this one and it's still unusable.

There's no need to bring personal attacks into discussions on software. Use the one that will best help you bring to life your game; that's all that should matter to you when picking a tool.
 
Posted by Silveraura 14th March, 2009

... Cecil, lol... I honestly don't give a flying duck about half the POINTS you were trying to make. I was simply CORRECTING you. Stop giving me something to fight against and I'll stop fighting... haha.

Duck was added by mr admin No swearing
Comment edited by Rikus on 3/14/2009
 
Posted by Ricky 14th March, 2009

I LIKE holding SHIFT
 
Posted by W3R3W00F 14th March, 2009

This is like the biggest site update ever, and it was all about a new build people were excited about, then started hating it, then somebody mentioned Construct, and so we see how a little spark can start a fire.

I mean really guys, Construct is Construct. Click is Click. Live and let.
 
Posted by Silveraura 14th March, 2009

Thank you... -.-
 
Posted by Chloe Sagal 14th March, 2009

@bc

seriously, your avatar really makes all your posts that much better. its like your shocked at everything that everyone says.
 
Posted by Cecilectomy 14th March, 2009

*claps hands* this is so exciting ^^
 
Posted by Eternal Man [EE] 14th March, 2009

I LIKED the REMARK about SHIFT
 
Posted by Marko 14th March, 2009

Like i said, time to give it a rest now -Adam-
 
Posted by Assault Andy 14th March, 2009

I'm with MJK on this. Any activity is good activity
 
Posted by Dr. James MD 14th March, 2009

So long as it improves the software and not make it worse *would look at unorganised qualifier list but is back on 248*.
 
Posted by alastair john jack 15th March, 2009

how many qualifiers do you need?!
 
Posted by Silveraura 15th March, 2009

It's not a matter of needing a lot of qualifiers, it's a matter of having something better then qualifiers like maybe classes, that are customizable.
 
Posted by Dr. James MD 15th March, 2009

I only need 50 of them. Just the lack of reference numbers that needed to be carried over to these new names, the lack of organisation and on a personal level the needless graphics and names.
 
Posted by OMC 15th March, 2009

Is this a TDC record for comments on a newspost?
 
Posted by The Chris Street 15th March, 2009

Aww guys, I wish I was still an admin, then I would lay down the law on YOUR asses

My opinion is that we should all be friends, no point bickering over which product is better, its wasted energy on both sides.

The Construct beta is free. The Clickteam Build249 and HWA betas are free. Pick one, or both, and just get on with enjoying the free privileges you are getting.
 
Posted by Eternal Man [EE] 15th March, 2009

According to the small text at the bottom of the frontpage you still are!
 
Posted by Silveraura 15th March, 2009

He gave it up for the very reason he wishes he had it right now. Because he 'always' had to lay the law down on our asses.
 
Posted by The Chris Street 15th March, 2009

Well we can't have the inmates running the asylum now can we? lol

Trying to decide if its worth asking Rikus for my job back but so much has happened since November for me... might be taking a step back.
 
Posted by Rikus 15th March, 2009

I have been keeping my 3 eyes on it, dont see any huge reason yet apart from a swearword to really step in, people have a right to give their opinion, so go for it Just keep it clean and i'll clean up the sweat! umm wait..
 
Posted by W3R3W00F 15th March, 2009

(Switching to another, SAFER topic)

So, umm... what would want to see in build 250? :|

Me? More movement extensions, bring back the morph effect from the old frame editor, and possibly more audio channels if need be. Right now I can't think of anymore.
 
Posted by Liquixcat 15th March, 2009

(Switching back to the more dangerous topic)

Wow, things have changed... Adam and James still bickering but that's all the parallels I see. Chris not being admin is kind of funny, only if for the reason of the irony of his departure being his primary excuse for returning.

On this CT vs Scirra: MMF2 is vastly superior and rightly so, it's been around for 15 years with KNP. Just because Scirra's built and based around HWA doesn't reflect well on CT basically reprogramming MMF to accommodate HWA just because you all bitch about it. Then when they incorporate HWA it's not to all of your specifications. (Have you programmed an application with HWA?)
As some rapper would say: Y'all out ya minds?

I'm not a "fanboy" to either cause as I don't really make games anymore, but seriously?

I agree on having an opinion on one program or another but bashing each others opinions is like fighting with water (it does nothing but get you all wet). I also think Rikus would do well to step in and perhaps administrate/moderate this conversation.

 
Posted by Ski 15th March, 2009

you can drown in inches of water
 
Posted by Rikus 15th March, 2009

"I also think Rikus would do well to step in and perhaps administrate/moderate this conversation. "



Not really, i do not see anything that warrents a warning, deletion or kick in the but, there are some edgie comments floating around but everyone has a right to speak his/her mind. Of course up until a certain degree of being normal. I think it would make things way worse to start deleting/editing certain comments. considering the past and the huge amound of comments on this news post as a community i think we stil did pretty good containing our emotions and being rational about the entire thing, rather then exploding into a ball of fire. Good stuff.
Comment edited by Rikus on 3/15/2009
 
Posted by OMC 15th March, 2009


 
Posted by Silveraura 15th March, 2009

Can't look at me, I've not once complained about the new HWA build. I understand the hard work Yves has been under working on this build, and if absolutely any of you actually cared about doing for the beta what the beta was ment for, actually submit your bug reports, then you'd have the same success myself and dozens of others on the form have had, in those bugs being fixed in an update less then a day after you posted the report! I mean common guys, beta software is beta software. Stop whining.
 
Posted by Liquixcat 15th March, 2009

Apologizes Rikus, in retrospect this is actually one of the better arguments I've seen on TDC.
Comment edited by Rikus on 3/15/2009
 
Posted by Rikus 15th March, 2009

just snipped of the last 7 posts with the quick werewoof discussion since we already went over that 20 comments ago Edited 1 reply so it makes sense. there ya go.
 
Posted by Dr. James MD 15th March, 2009

I'm pretty sure they've known about the broken gradients with HWA for a while but they haven't fixed that yet, or didn't in the HWA beta I downloaded.
 
Posted by Liquixcat 15th March, 2009

Ah, the true proprietor of arguments .

I'm still a little angry that java compilation isn't available for me since I don't own developer. I wonder what their policy is on having a friend making a compilation for you. (Not that I have any immediate programs that would be beneficial)

Is that against any rules?
 
Posted by Jeff - Clickteam 15th March, 2009

There are a few formats of Java the non developer version can compile.

Your friend can compile under his copy of developer for you no one would really care.
 
Posted by W3R3W00F 15th March, 2009

I just wish they'd make the Java compatible for MMF2 Standard. That would be awesome. Heh, I'd be making games twice the speed if they had an extension for Gaming consoles. Now THAT would be awesome.

Ah, well. All I've got for now is a PS2 to PC usb adapter to play my games with a Dualshock 2 controller. It's not bad, concerning it's got a second controller slot. :|
 
Posted by Marko 15th March, 2009

Did you buy it from Play? I got one from there with dual Dualshock pad ports!
 
Posted by Jon Lambert 15th March, 2009

What is this broken gradients problem? The only problem I ever had (which I still have, and it'll bother me as soon as I feel like going back to that particular project) was the fact that a gradient going from 0,0,0 to 6,0,0 only displays 6,0,0. That particular problem is here: http://www.clickteam.com/epicenter/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=17993&Number=127406#Post127406
 
Posted by W3R3W00F 15th March, 2009

Nice!

Actually I got mine at Amazon.com from some seller! I also got another Dualshock controller.
Still hasn't come yet tho...

It just feels awesome playing your own game on a Dual shock controller. It's almost like playing it on a PS2

 
Posted by Marko 15th March, 2009

I designed R.P.G. Rocket Propelled Guts! with the PS2 DualShock in mind - got some mates and my brother coming round on Sat night to have another bash at it actually! It plays so much better with the analogue sticks

Happy days!
 
Posted by W3R3W00F 15th March, 2009

Sweet! It'd be awesome if it was an online game- I'd play it consistently!

Haha at first I was trying to figure out how to use analogue instead of the direction buttons until I pressed "Analogue".

I'm smart. :3
 
Posted by Marko 16th March, 2009

D'oh! Sticks are so much easier and better than the PS2's D-pad, i think.
 
Posted by OMC 16th March, 2009

Wiimote+Nunchuk/Classic controller + Bluetooth FTW.
 
Posted by Marko 16th March, 2009

Seen the videos on how to do it YouTube - very impressive!
 
Posted by Dr. James MD 16th March, 2009

I bought a Wii controller before even owning a Wii so I could mess about with it on my PC used to work kinda well, Glovepie has built in schemes to get it working with Half Life 2 and such. Keep meaning to try out my game with the Classic Controller, just a shame they don't have rumble :<
 
Posted by OMC 16th March, 2009

If you set the wiimote to work on its side like an NES controller you can use rumble.

Programming GlovePIE is as much fun as playing games with the Wiimote to me. The drumset is genius too.
 
Posted by W3R3W00F 16th March, 2009

...Wait, you can use a Wiimote on PC too?!

Awesome.
 
Posted by alastair john jack 17th March, 2009

I didn't know that! I'm going to have to investigate this matter.
 
Posted by W3R3W00F 17th March, 2009

I should too, but I'll just stick with what I've got for now...
 
Posted by alastair john jack 17th March, 2009

Same here!
 
Posted by OMC 17th March, 2009

Yea, if you have XP you use whatever bluetooth stack came with your adapter.... But if you have Vista you can use the built-in Microsoft stack and this awesome little tool that makes Wiimote connecting a breeze. Then you can just write quick scripts in GlovePIE to test everything from X Y and Z angles and acceleration, to button presses and combinations... you can even set the LED's!

I should write an article about it.
 
Posted by Dr. James MD 17th March, 2009

Gwah?! I has XP and a Microsoft BT stack. It's all built into the system *shrugs* if that makes a difference.

I used Glovepie to set up my 360 controller as a Midi controller too well kind of. The Dpad adjusts octaves, A and B switch between instruments. Tis all fun. Love to configure my midi keyboard to be a game controller for utter madness :|
 
Posted by OMC 17th March, 2009

Well, XP's Bluetooth stack only works with approved adapters... the one I got off ebay wasn't supported so I had to use Bluesoleil. n_n
 
Posted by Marko 17th March, 2009

Re: OMC writing a Wii-mote article; I think that'd be a great idea!
 
Posted by Jeff - Clickteam 19th March, 2009

Good news! Since it was requested Yves has reported --
The next update (of build 249) will contain an option to let you use the old qualifiers.


 
Posted by OMC 19th March, 2009

That's great!
 
Posted by Dr. James MD 19th March, 2009

Bloody brilliant! Thanks Jeff

And Yves of course!
Comment edited by Dr. James on 3/19/2009
 
Posted by DaVince 21st March, 2009

"Java Mac"? They should just make sure that the code they make is cross-platform, rather than having multiple applets built for multiple OSes... What'd be the point of using Java otherwise?
 
Posted by Torava 27th March, 2009

The next update (of build 249) will contain an option to let you use the old qualifiers.

I want customisable qualifers.
 


 
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