The Daily Click ::. News

Save the Piggy!
News posted 9th August, 2009 by Rikus  
I got some bad and serious news today folks, we are 1 month behind in payments for the site! On top of that the new ads are not bringing in the money as they should. Meaning we could really use some donations at this point! Clubsoft is paying for the provider so he is basically dipping into his own savings to keep the site going and that is ridiculous.

We have come to a point were the site gets so much traffic that the bills for running it are getting to high to be paid and the ads are not cutting it. I am hoping we see some donations to get us trough the next couple of months but this is a serious problem for the future.

I would love to hear your ideas on how TDC as a community can bring in enough money to keep it going without us begging for donations every so often. Myself I was thinking of maybe a TDC's version of the klikdisc were people can decide themselves how much they are willing to shell out for a cd/dvd full of goodies. That way you are kind of donating but getting something in return and you can decide how much the cd is worth in your eyes.

Anyway let me know your ideas but if this does not change soon we perhaps might not even be here by this time next year, and that folks would be a pretty darn shame.

Posted by OMC 9th August, 2009

I do wish I could spare some money for the site, because it would definitely be worth it. :\

Thanks and sorry Clubsoft, that you're paying for the immense fees.
Posted by DMT 9th August, 2009

That's sad.
Posted by Hayo 9th August, 2009

I personally think it would not be a good idea to have a TDC-disc. It won't contribute to the quality of both Clickdisc and TDC-disc. It will get harder for Kisguri to get content for the Clickdisc and a TDC-disc just to get the money will not sit well with a lot of people. The community is just too small for it.

The first thing I would do is look into ways to save bandwith (I am sure we have people here who know a lot about that). Another thing I wonder, what is eating the bandwith right now? It seems games don't get as many downloads as they used to. Do we get a lot of visitors from outside the community who just look at screenshots?

That said, I am willing to donate a bit. How much is needed for another year of TDC?

Posted by DMT 9th August, 2009

Maybe a DVD release of Klikcast instead. With that footage of you dancing as a bonus.
Posted by Otter 9th August, 2009

I think we could have a TDC Music Disc, where artist like Josh(Spirit Engine 2 Music) and Mr. Pineapple(Tormishire Music) who already have music CDs for sale for games they made music for, could have a couple good songs from there albums on it. It would say would say what game it's from, where they can buy the full CD, and that suff. That way TDC could get donations, and these artist could get advertissement.

Probably a weak idea, but it's still an idea.

I know it would be a little on the rude side to ask, but how much is CT making of Click Disc? If it's not much, is it really worth looking into? Will the TDC Disc bite into Clickteams Click Disc sales(That's the LAST THING we want)

If there is a TDC Disc, I think it should have a seperate Click just for it. Reviewing all of the games on the disc, plus some other stuff like extra previews. Not only would people have to buy it, but they'd have to keep buying it over time.

I would like to donate some, but I'm really a tight wad. I've got some really expensive stuff I'm saving up for now, so I'd be lucky if I could give $10.

Good luck to you TDC! I'd probably quit clicking without you guys. After all, you're the only community I use with clicking.
Posted by Rikus 9th August, 2009

I'm sure club can share way more then I can about it, but a lot of bandtwith goes into the usage of the site itself, view pages, posting on the forums, projects downloads, viewing pages. Surprisingly most people that visit the site do not even post but just lurk check the pages, lots of bandwith even goes into that. Argument could be made to transfer to php but with the stats the site is getting i dont know if that really would make such a huge difference.

On another comment a DVD release of Klikcast sounds kinda cool to
Comment edited by Rikus on 8/9/2009
Posted by nim 9th August, 2009

I agree that Clubsoft shouldn't be paying for it himself, that is ridiculous.

I think a TDC-disc would be a good idea, and - sorry to sound harsh - I'd rather a community site got the money than one person.

Also, I'm sure Clubby knows this very well, but all the html tables must be bulking up the site a lot. Also, there's a lot of repeated information on each page (polls). I don't know what goes on behind the scenes in the ASP right now, but I'm sure a CSS layout would help. It's not anything special to be able to make div layouts anymore but I'd be happy to help with that.
Posted by nim 9th August, 2009

Donated. Don't bother with all the front page hoohah, though. Should get us to September.
Posted by Rhys D 9th August, 2009

Posted by Cecilectomy 9th August, 2009

dvd with the first 2 seasons of klikcast with bonus features like rikus dancing, anything cut out of episodes, etc.

didnt there used to be a tdc store? tshirt prints, coffee mugs, stickers, etc. i'd definitely buy some stickers.

thanks nim.

i'd donate too but im kinda in debt atm.
Posted by Rikus 9th August, 2009

Thanks for anyone who has already donated! All the donation emails go to club so I wont know who did what but I should know when he wakes up (he went to bed already
Posted by Xhunterko 9th August, 2009

Yet another reason to get a paypal account set up. The only problem is I fear I would give away too much. Hopefully I'll get one set up this year.

(And about your adds, i don't think many of us enjoy fashion girl dress up on every other page. I suggest project wonderful maybe?)
Posted by Rhys D 9th August, 2009

I was also thinking, maybe you can set up some kind of click game advertising service? say $10 gets you an ad rotation of a month or so in a special advertising section just for click games.

I'm sure the studios such as Gamesare etc would be glad to help support the site and advertise their games/products for cheap on a site which is aimed at users of click products.

I know I for one would use this service monthly I suppose it really depends on how many adverts would be too much to rotate through to make it worthwhile.
Posted by MBK 9th August, 2009

You should have the site classified as a non-profit organisation for the betterment of the minds of the socially inept or something.

Without this site, alot of us would stop kliking
(I personally would just start using GameMaker)
(and consequently quit using ClickTeam products)
But yea ... maybe there's some sort of way to get government funding for the teaching of logical materials, I mean this is more than a good place to download free games, it's also a learning base and free-form school for coding, art, writing, and other creative wonders. Here we are all both teachers and students of the nature of logic and the goal to master it beyond a reasonable doubt.

Is anyone out there a lawyer and/or knows about US government grants and how to acquire them and the reasons they are granted and why they are allowed to be obtained by some and not by others? What has to be done for such a process?

Maybe you can get McDonalds to sponsor the site or something? It'd make everyone here hungry for a Big Mac all the time, but it'd be well worth it to save the site if they'd go for it.

Posted by markno2 9th August, 2009

Clickteam should bail TDC out whenever it desperately needs help. It's only the cost of three copies of MMF2 Dev to run TDC for a whole year, and without TDC, most of us never would have bought MMF2. Thanks to everyone that donated.
Posted by [DELETED] 9th August, 2009

Do the ads bring in money as people click on them? If so, they are not bound to make a lot of money for the site because I think the majority of the TDC users would know better or not be interested in them.
Posted by alastair john jack 9th August, 2009

If I was making an income I'd like to.
I do have 100 TDC points though, maybe I could donate them!
Posted by Fanotherpg 9th August, 2009

Rikus I was writing about this to you month or two ago and you din't reply on it And about CT help, TDC is 'supporting' from some time also other game editors games and it isn't good.

I think that MMF2 Dev Flash mochiads would help because you could use it on page as self promotion for example in TDC Arcade section!
Posted by Marko 9th August, 2009

I support Rhys D's idea - maybe it would push more people into selling their quality games (like Dr. James just did) and increase the credibility of Click games as a whole. People who don't feel like doing this can carry on as they do now. Just a thought.

BT, this site closing would be very sad news
Posted by Strife 9th August, 2009

Wow... I had no idea that TDC had such immediate financial woes. It would certainly be a travesty if the site was forced to go down. D:

I could certainly save up a little bit of extra dough in case of rainy days like this.
Posted by maVado 9th August, 2009

Layer more ads. When you click on a download also bring up a pop under and show ads. And put the donation button into a seperate section on top, like top right with some text. You could incorporate this also to te download pages. Like "If you like this game please donate and help our site keep to maintain" or something like this.

Sell TDC points for paypal $ and make the prices for all the bonus things more thought trough. I think you gave away too much points for gotm and such so the whole system is kind of overfed with points. Add more hardcoded stuff to projects and downloads so people can unlock extra screenshots and or buy frontpage listing and such for there points.
Posted by Rob Rule 9th August, 2009

On other site/forum combos I frequent, 'super memberships' are pretty popular; generally they're a yearly subscription that gives you a member category with a few extra features/abilities.

Perhaps buying extra DC points would help, too.
Posted by Strife 9th August, 2009

The TDC's equivalent of "super memberships" are VIP memberships, actually. Though in my opinion, I think some extra money could be earned if VIP membership wasn't so easy to acquire as it is right now. For example, members could pay a one-time donation for unlimited VIP access, while spending DC points on VIP access would only grant it to them for a limited time period.

By the way, I noticed that the army guy in the top banner of the site is now grayed out. Oh noes!
Comment edited by Strife on 8/9/2009
Posted by [DELETED] 9th August, 2009

Perhaps the cost of VIP membership in DC points could be refunded back to VIP members and the VIP option is changed to a yearly/half-yearly subscription fee.

But of course, there really needs to be some improvements in the VIP access/features for this to be worthwhile.
Posted by Hayo 9th August, 2009

If we get so many people from outside the community, what about a selling platform for clickers? You could make a section where people pay for downloading games (that are of a certain quality), and a part of the profit goes to hosting costs, the rest to the author of the game.
Posted by maVado 9th August, 2009

Rental is a good idea, bring in time limitation with all items. Like vip for a month costs 300 points or so.

Those who have much points earned them in the past and they will last a while and new people have to earn them.

Here is a general idea: People who sign up start with 200 points and there is no possiblity to send points to other accounts. However you can still award throphies.

All those bonus icons cost from 50-150 per month. Vip cost 300 per month. Weekly Spotlight 200 and so on. Those are just examples that whole system needs to be thinked through carefully.

Submitting a download costs 50 points. submitting an article cost 50 points, submitting a project cost 50 points.

A forum post rewards 1 point, exclusing off topic and admins should be harsh on spam.

Each month you get a TDC point income of 1 point per week of membership at the TDC.

1 year member = ~50 points per month.

Rating games are equal to the sum in points. 5 stars = 5 points. If your game or article is rated you get the points for it. However the rating account loses the number of points. A favorite is worth 10 points to the game maker and substracted from the person who fav'ed the game or project.

People could submit game to public beta test on vip or similar, cost 100 points one time and cannot reoccur for one project. Sing-in cost 25. Sign-out rewards 50 points and a one month bonus badge for beta testing. You could add more stuff like this. Just reward the active ones that keep the community alive.

The site itself remains free, lurkers can lurk around and download, view boards, read articles and more.

However getting active means you have to invest. So you either contribute high quality games or you pruchase points packages from the site via paypal donations.

Just make sure that points earned and spent are balanced. And make weekly community challenges to earn points.

All in all you rewards to active players, those who are longer a member have a slight benefit from it. Starters have a solid start and Lurkers can still lurk around.

Posted by alastair john jack 9th August, 2009

That sounds awesome hayo might start to see more quality games coming here (hopefully)
Posted by Ski 9th August, 2009

"On another comment a DVD release of Klikcast sounds kinda cool to"

Why would people pay for something they can watch for free?
Posted by OMC 9th August, 2009

To support TDC.
Posted by Ski 9th August, 2009

People may aswell just donate? If I bought a Klikcast dvd it just wouldn't be watched.
Posted by BeamSplashX 9th August, 2009

How about having a "click on ads" month? Everyone just click on ads and close the window and TDC will be FILTHY RICH*.

Posted by OMC 9th August, 2009

Probably the same here, but I guess people like to donate when they get little prizes in the mail. Like public broadcasting donation drives. >_>

"Pledge $50 and we'll give you a ham salad maker!"
Posted by Solgryn 9th August, 2009

I've already started clicking on ads every now and then =
Posted by OMC 9th August, 2009

Yes, I've clicked a few too. But I suddenly remember an old plan I had. Make an XP virtual machine with no network connections and click lots of ads in it! So you don't have to worry about infection, and you can just choose not to save the changes to disk! O
Posted by W3R3W00F 9th August, 2009

The only idea I have is a lame one, but I'd say staple a bunch of papers onto poles around our town.

I wish I could donate, but I don't got alot cash floatin around.
Posted by Steve Harris 9th August, 2009

How about paying $1 or $2 to access the link to the klikcast everytime?
Posted by Rikus 9th August, 2009

Thanks for all the comments folks. I really like the idea of having some higher quality games we could sell here were part of the amound will go to the author and the other to TDC. When you buy a game you would support 2 things at once, and that might be a push for some people to buy the actual game. Any comments on that?
Posted by OMC 9th August, 2009

Only that there aren't enough of those games and not enough money in most Clickers' pockets.
Posted by RedEnchilada 9th August, 2009

It would be nice if those people who advertise their shareware on TDC donated a percentage of their profits here. I know I would.

On a side note, I wanna try donating something sometime, but I don't have any money. How much does it cost to run the server?
Posted by Hayo 9th August, 2009

Well, I meant there might actually be a lot of visitors who are not clickers. Half of the lurkers might be people who just go here to play the games, just like they might go to them freeware sites. They are an audience and market for our games. Why pay ourselves if we can let other people pay? We could make the itunes of click games here.
Posted by Cecilectomy 9th August, 2009

to those thinking clicking on ads a bunch of times is a good idea, youre wrong. google ads has policies that prohibit that kind of abuse. if they see tons of ad clicks from an ip thats gonna look suspicious and is probably violating some sort of terms (not clicking your own ads, offering reward/service/money for people clicking on ads). yes tdc needs money but we dont want tdc to get into trouble either.
Posted by Disthron 9th August, 2009

You could always try uploading click cast episodes onto Blip TV. They have an advertising system where content creators can earn money from the advertising on there shows.

You'd probably wont to add the older video ones one per week at first and maybe have a shorter, say 5 minute, weekly click cast after that. The members here could advertise the show on whatever other sites they visit to help get people watching the videos.
Posted by Hayo 9th August, 2009

Yeah clicking ads won't do shit. We tried that with Iklik-it (in 2002), which died a month later.
Posted by Disthron 9th August, 2009

Yea, but the videos will be on Blip TV. Not on The Daily Click. So they should get more traffic.
Posted by Hayo 9th August, 2009

Oh. That was meant to be a reply to cEcil.
Posted by DMT 9th August, 2009

Well, I think that the idea of higher quality games is a very good one. It's far better than my idea. How do you get money for ads anyway? Amount of people who see it?
Posted by Johnny Look 9th August, 2009

Selling stuff and receiving donations will only delay the site's inevitable death.
If a company is financially unstable, the first thing to do is to cut the costs as much as possible, and not looking for alternative profits.
I know a .asp host can be quite expensive, so my suggestion is simply to start the whole site from scratch.
Either re-write the site in php (there are tons of cheap and free php hosts), or use any existing CMS software.
Sure, this would be a huge change, but still way better than no TDC at all.

Posted by Rikus 9th August, 2009

Converting the site to php is on Clubs mind after the arcade is finished. However it might take a couple of years to convert but we will get there in the end Actually in fact the entire arcade portion of the site is already written in php. It is the time in between now and then that we have to fill.
Posted by MBK 9th August, 2009

I like Hayo's idea for a selling area here at TDC.
Not only would it give klikers some much needed inspiration to make their games to completion, but it would also give them an easy way to make money for both themselves AND for their favorite site,
The Daily Click!

I too have an idea. An online pay 2 play TDC penny arcade! Each play could cost 25 points. Then that idea where people pay real cash for TDC points would make more sense, because there would be something to spend the points on besides trophies and images.

Also, we could hold Cash Prize contests where everyone has an entrance fee, and half of the sum of all the entrance fees is the prize while the other half gets donated to TDC. Then invite indie game developers from other sites (and their money), to come compete in the game-making contest.

The rules should be set in stone though, so make them right the first time. None of that changing them after the contest is almost over crap like I've experienced before. I hate that, and I'm not the only one.

So there you have it, many plans that could all be done to help the site with its financial troubles.
You've got a good thing going here, why not make full use of it? You could not only cover the cost of running the site, but actually begin to make a profit off of it.

Posted by HyperKnight32 10th August, 2009

I've been a long time 'lurker' here, I pretty much see what's new on a daily basis. I would hate to see this place go, I would love to pay for some of the top quality games to help support TDC.

If enough people pay for the commercial games, I'm sure it will keep this site going. If they're cheap and affordable like Lunnye Devitsy, I'd be more than happy to support our fellow indie game developers.

But in the meantime a donation of thanks or appreciation of what you guys do is due .
Posted by Rikus 10th August, 2009

Thanks for the comment HyperKnight32! Glad to hear you keep coming back every day to see whats up!
Posted by KNPMASTER 10th August, 2009

I like the contest idea with entry fee, and half the money goes to donations.
Posted by Radix 10th August, 2009

BeamsplashX: That's a good way to get banned from most ad networks. It also wouldn't work anyway, because only people who give a shit about TDC will click and those are a minority of the total users.

The ads aren't making money because they're practically hidden. Positioning is really important.
I don't have a link handy, but Google has a heatmap that shows you the statistical best places to put them. Below the fold on the lower right-hand corner of the page is about the coldest area.
(The very bottom is good but only if it's contextually related to the page content. I'm seeing a broken THIS IS NOT A JOKE - CONGRATULATIONS YOU WON one down there that looks about five years out of date).

If the site gets enough traffic, it really should be possible to at least break even with ads if someone takes the time to set them up properly.
Posted by Disthron 10th August, 2009

To Radix, I don't know why but some people really hate ads in there websites and videos. I mean sure, there kind of annoying but the site/video creators need to keep there places afloat somehow.

So I wouldn't have any objection to there being a few more adds around here.

Also, this is just an idea. But I'm part of another fan website where some people sell there works. They donate some money to the site because that is where there customers hang out. It's sort of an unofficial advertising thing.
I'm not sure if that would work here, as I have no idea how much anyone makes from this, but perhaps the people selling there products could donate some money to help keep the community alive.
Posted by s-m-r 10th August, 2009

Some of my thoughts on the previous comments; I'll do my best to keep it short:

--I STRONGLY agree a PayPal account needs to be set up for TDC. Many financially-strapped organizations ask people to sign up for a small monthly donation: large enough to be of assistance, but small enough to not be a serious drain. This can be a stop-gap measure until the PHP/bandwidth issues are sorted, and then will continue on afterward. A supporter will end up paying $100 or more over the course of the year, and not even miss it. PayPal is a low-maintenance, easy-for-the-end-user way to do this.
--Creating a "TDCDisc" is a bad idea, at least for now; it will glut the niche with products of dubious quality, and bring down the perceived value of all Klik/TDC Discs. That, and it's a high-maintenance project with no guarantee on returns.
--Someone already mentioned that 'cutting costs' should be a priority. I totally agree; re-coding the site appears to be one of the most feasible ways to do this, and should be re-prioritized higher on the to-do list.
--I like the ideas that MaVado proposed in terms of adding actual value to the TDC points. As of now, the whole Point system is inflated and not very useful; re-thinking this system, and allowing users to either invest their funds or their effort into maintaining it, makes the system both exclusive and worthwhile.
--Pay-To-Play Arcade: excellent idea! Use those inflated TDC points for some fun stuff!
--More value needs to be added to the VIP Memberships, and the above linking of funds and/or effort needs to be brought into play.
--Allow TDC Members to create, submit, and pay for click-ads to the TDC site to promote their own websites, projects, or downloads. Let the adverts be displayed for a month at a time. All funding is kept insular to TDC, and Google (or some other advert company) is never involved.
--It can be expensive and time-consuming to start up a non-profit. If you're looking for non-profit assistance, do a search on "fiscal sponsorship" and see if there's a way you can link up to an already-existing non-profit to gain the benefits without having to go through the application process. Save the non-profit application until later, when TDC can afford it.
--Look for grant/funding opportunities from art/creativity foundations, and host a TDC contest built around them; user submissions serve as grant application materials. Give a portion of the successful grant to the winner of the contest, while the rest of the funds go to TDC.
Posted by nim 10th August, 2009

There's already a paypal account set up for TDC. Check the "Make a Donation" button on the side.
Posted by s-m-r 10th August, 2009

Ah, but setting it up to accept regular monthly contributions is something I recommended. That way, there's a steady and consistent stream of donations coming in, the donors won't have to think too hard about a huge lump sum of cash being donated at once, and the admins have a much more clear idea as to how much money is needed from one month (or year) to the next.
Posted by Yai7 13th August, 2009

Make it that people will be able to buy click points!
Posted by Rhodesy 14th August, 2009

Club, Rikus, anyone in the know... how much bandwidth does this site eat up? and where is it hosted? (geographically)
Posted by The Chris Street 14th August, 2009

Something to try...

Redesign the site! Completely scrap the current layout, make it less interactive. I bet the forums take up a huge amount of bandwidth so use some external forums.

Posted by Muz 16th August, 2009

I found it a little funny that the ad revenue went down ever since we got rid of the Evony ads


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