While recoding the tile engine tonight I began thinking that with a bit of extra work, I could turn all of the engines I'm making into more versatile versions that could accomodate multiple styles of RPG's to be made with little internal tweaking. In fact, with a LOT of work I could probably turn out a program that is entirely tweakable from the outside, no need to open up the CCA at all. The benefit of this is that it could potentially find a lot wider audience - those who don't own MMF.
I've never used any of the RPG maker programs, but can anyone who has tell me how versatile they are? Do they force you into certain battle approaches, damage equations, etc? Can they handle action rpgs ala Zelda as well as FF style games? The reason I'm asking is because if I want to turn this into a full fledged RPG maker I'm going to have to do A LOT of work...developing a scripting language, creating toolkits for everything, creating all different kinds of custom movements and such.
Due to the huge amount of coding I'd probably need some outside help. Also, if it is deemed feasible and there is some market for it, I'd like to exactly that, market it. Maybe ask $15 dollars or something. Hmm, a new CD or a full fledged RPG maker capable of churning out FF3 style games or better. Shouldn't be a hard choice for the money.
The only thing I fear is that externalizing everything and creating scripts and such for so many things would slow down MMF even more. Not sure about this yet. This is the one potentially fatal problem. So far the tile engine is running pretty fast on my comp though, and the new version I'm building which is using a new approach to drawing the graphics, is running about 3 times faster so far...but anyways..
...just wondering if anyone would be interested in using and possibly purchasing something like this (or joining the team to work on this )? I can go into more details regarding the features and planned features. Suffice it to say for now that it would be capable of SNES rpg's with relative ease. A lot of control would be placed in the hands of the user, but due to the limitations of MMF and such, there would be hard limits. Unlike the RPG maker programs (at least I think they were this way) you wouldn't have to use built-in graphics. Any external graphics could be used, both for backgrounds, and as active objects. There are a lot of other features that I think would be appealing, but I'm not going to go into them unless anyone wants to hear more.
I don't know if it's just me but I think that being able to build a high quality RPG with just a few clicks would interest a lot of people.
Send me a DC mail if you'd like to discuss this further.
~SoS
Current Project: Undertaking the design of my mammoth RPG. Utilizing all of the knowledge gained while coding the now defunct "Shadow Reign".
The rpg maker series are a little limiting but with enough knowledge you can get it to do things its not supposed to. Some guy made a tetris game with rpg maker 2000.
The only major trouble i ever had was making my own tilesets, it had to be very specific. You needed an exact size png image 256 colours with tiles at 16x16 or something.
Also the battle engine looked a certain way if you didnt have extensive knowledge on it.
Still it is very easy to make what they designed it for, final fantasy 4,5,6 style games. shame i never got a game done with it really.
I think it's a great idea myself...though as you say, one that involves of lot of work. RPG Maker is good if you're new to the whole game-designing lark. It is quite limiting in some ways, though...for example, you can't design your own set of 'stats' for the characters/enemies (it always has to be attack, defense, speed and mind), you're limited to 256 colours (I think) and the field/world areas have a strict one-size grid for the background pieces and characters.
The main pet peeve I had with it was the lack of flexibility in the battle system. It basically forced you to use turn-based or (with RPG maker 2003) the Final Fantasy ATB. You could use sliders to determine roughly how much damage attacks and spells did (the other factor being the relevant stats, of course) and set the propability of status effects being inflicted, but it's generally basic stuff. You couldn't touch the internal damage equations or anything like that.
What I would really like to see is the option of designing your own battle system (to an extent), or being able to use a more desirable one. The Final Fantasy ATB system is *very* outdated and seriously lacking in strategy, in comparison to newer console RPGs. In my opinion, it's no fun sticking it out with an RPG if the battles don't actually get you to think a little.
Thanks for the responses guys. Right now i'm still juggling a ton of ideas around in my head. I'll post later (after ugh...work) after I get a chance to refine the ideas and test out their concepts. As I've said my tile engine can work with just about any tile size. The only limit there is the # of objects per screen. The original method I was using would actually allow a 1x1 tile size, but the drawing routine took about 10 seconds on my P4 2.4 ghz. The new version, using a new method of drawing, can't have more than 10000 tiles per screen. Of course, 12 by 12 tiles would only utilize 5462 objects on a 1024 x 768 resolution. These can be 16 million or 256 color tiles.
As I said I'm not sure but don't see why externalizing things like a damage equation wouldn't be possible. It wouldn't be easy, that is for sure, especially if I were to allow the user to make as many stats as possible that affect the characters any way the designer chooses, but it should be possible. Oh yeah, one other quick feature that I already know can be achieved...the game can make tilesets out of a pre-drawn background. In fact you could have a completely non-tile based game "cut" into tiles and stored that way...the only drawback to that approach is that if you don't re-use the tiles you could potentially end up with thousands of different tiles, and if they are all 16 million color bmps the filesize would skyrocket. But it will be an option. You could otherwise take an already tile based game, load in an image, set the tile cutting size to the dimensions of the tiles on screen, and then cut it up. This would allow easy graphics ripping from your favorite games.
On a side note, I'll have to check and see if I can save the images as .gifs or .png's from within MMF.
Anyhow, thanks for the responses guys. Once I get a few more of my ideas ironed out and can test them for speed, I'll have the answer as to whether I should go forward with this or not. Maybe I could make two versions, one that is meant to be opened with MMF and tinkered with, and one that is a completely stand-alone product.
Just the thought of trying to make my own animation editor within MMF is making me cringe.
~SoS
Current Project: Undertaking the design of my mammoth RPG. Utilizing all of the knowledge gained while coding the now defunct "Shadow Reign".
Okay, after spending some more time on the design for this thing, I've run into a bit of a problem. Originally I was aiming to make this as flexible as possible...well, it's not that I can't still do this, but ultimately I'll be reinventing the wheel and copying a lot of stuff that MMF already lets us do.
I mean, with a lot of work one could almost create MMF in MMF,and this would be sort of like that. The only advantages this system would have over MMF is some pre-built in RPG stuff. The disadvantages would of course be speed, and possibly too much flexibilty for the average kid that wants to make an FF or SNES style RPG.
My questions to you all are:
*what type of features did RPG maker lack that you'd like to see?
*what style of rpg's should this be able to make (action adventure, FF side battle, dragon warrior 1st person battle, etc)?
*What are the max # of characters you'd like to see in a party. How about the max # of characters that are 'corralled' (think of the characters left on the airship in FF3). Should there be limits at all?
*how much flexibility do you think is needed? Too much flexibility might scare away people. Also, the more flexible the system, typically the more work needed. I mean, look at trying to make a compex RPG in MMF. It can be done (and potentially be very complex), because MMF is very flexible, but at the same time it's a lot of work because MMF isn't designed specifically for RPG's. Where is the happy medium between flexibility and pre-determined design decisions. What systems and engines should be the most flexible...the least?
There are a lot of other questions I could ask, but for now this should be a decent start. I'm also going to start looking at the RPGmaker fansites and such and try and figure out their biggest complaints and what features they'd most like to see. All of your insight would be greatly appreciated as well.
On a side note, I was thinking of making it ultra-flexible but yet more or less easy to use. Despite the flexibility it would have certain pre-sets and such that could be selected. Certain leveling systems, damage equations, etc. The user could use one of these pre-defined formats or create their own. Wizards could be made to help characters set up battles and towns and such.
I know this seems like the obvious approach to the project, and I wouldn't hesitate to do it like this if it didn't require TONS of work. If nobody really wants the customization powers that I spend months working on I'd be a bit upset!
~SoS
Current Project: Undertaking the design of my mammoth RPG. Utilizing all of the knowledge gained while coding the now defunct "Shadow Reign".
Well ... dont count me as one of your customers I dont really play RPG's. I do have a few comments though.
1. How about making your RPG maker both flexible as well as easy? You could include an easy and complex mode to the program. The easy mode would allow less complexity but be more easy to manage to new people. The complex mode ... well ... I think you know what that implies
2. Include templates for the most common game styles. That way you would not have to program everything from the beginning unless you want to of course as templates should be optional. Then with a template selected your game starts out somewhere, and you can customize from that in stead from nothing.
I'd help, just as long as you don't try to compete by making another FF-style game generator. It's better if we develop a new style of RPG that fixes all the problems of previous RPGs. And believe me, RPGs designed last decade are full of problems. Only since D&D 3rd edition has anyone even tried to fix them. The abstract HP & mana system, spells that really don't have any difference between them, the annoying & slow leveling system where you kill dozens of monsters before going up in level, etc.
I doubt it'll be easy at all trying to do an animation editor.. best chance would be allowing to import animations into the program. You might wanna check the apps created in Click so far and maybe even interview the authors for some ideas..
Disclaimer: Any sarcasm in my posts will not be mentioned as that would ruin the purpose. It is assumed that the reader is intelligent enough to tell the difference between what is sarcasm and what is not.
Advertisement
Post Reply
)? I can go into more details regarding the features and planned features. Suffice it to say for now that it would be capable of SNES rpg's with relative ease. A lot of control would be placed in the hands of the user, but due to the limitations of MMF and such, there would be hard limits. Unlike the RPG maker programs (at least I think they were this way) you wouldn't have to use built-in graphics. Any external graphics could be used, both for backgrounds, and as active objects. There are a lot of other features that I think would be appealing, but I'm not going to go into them unless anyone wants to hear more.
Maybe I could make two versions, one that is meant to be opened with MMF and tinkered with, and one that is a completely stand-alone product.
