in this research I've found out that it is pretty simple to make ragdoll phisics in C++
Don't think you're getting that doctorate any time soon, chief.
I suppose it's basically a collection of objects and joints with bounds on how far they can be stretched/rotated, but it's not something that I'd like to jump right in and code. What makes you think that it amounts to being "pretty simple"?
I actually had a go at writing an extension a couple of weeks ago so that I could interact with a MySQL database directly, but quickly realized it wasn't as simple as I thought (and many databases block access attempts from outside their domain anyway).
If you ask me, the term "ragdoll physics" is almost as over-hyped as "high-definition".
I'm not a programmer or anything, but all Rag Dall effect is a bunch of body links connected to an overall Center of Gravity and each one of the parts react to the environment around them. I think this would be even easier to create in 2D, seeing as their is only 2 dimensions to worry about, rather then 3.
Ragdolls are way overrated.
I really hate in today's games when a character turns into a jello corps upon dying. Whatever happened to death animations, when your foe violently convulsed in pain as the life slowly left them? THAT was artistic effort.
But I'm all for physics and joints, when it's applied to actual gameplay. Not just to prettify the dead.
what they need is ragdoll with all the internals, i.e. clutching their chest as they get hit there, then tumbling down using ragdoll physics. I agree that these days its *DIE* body goes all floppy and they tumble down. instead add some life as well as the ragdoll tumble and you'll have the best death animation ever
Assault Andy Administrator
I make other people create vaporware
Registered 29/07/2002
Points 5686
5th April, 2006 at 09:50:36 -
Ragdoll is sweet, I less than three it and it doesn't have to be used just for deaths. If we had rigid body physics and ragdoll then we could make things like, a person riding on a motorcycle with really sweet physics. Anyway back to the question:
If it's so simple to make a ragdoll physics extension for MMF in C++ then Fox, feel free to make us one. While we're waiting for that, you can also look at many of the examples on the clickteam forums and use them. Alternatively you can find some documents on ragdoll physics and convert them into MMF.
I agree with Rhys on this, the rag doll effect is an amazing effect, but with some actual life in the effect, and it will be the best no doubt (granted its done well). The problem with death animations is, because they are pre-animated, nothing stops them from going through objects of floating over edges. So if you kill a person on a stair case, half of the body is floating in the air, the other half is jammed into the side of the staircase. On the other hand, where the rag doll effect may fix this, it takes the pain out of dieing. I'd rather have a game with ragdoll in it, especially if it's really fast paced like Unreal Tournament 2004, where death animations aren’t something you pay attention to, but the fact that bodies are being thrashed around, is enough to make you feel like you really did some damage.
As an extension developer who has actually researched this stuff, I can tell you that it is not nearly as easy to do as you make it sound.
A common approach to ragdoll physics is to use verlet integration, and I have done this in c++ fairly well, however actually doing the collisions seems to escape me .
Part of the problem with MMF is that it is impossible (or very hard) to get the normal of a surface and some systems are impossible becuase of limitations with MMF's drawing routines.
If a physics extension IS made for MMF 2, it will more then likely require you to use different objects then Active objects to represent your objects on the frame.
Ah Vortex, now I remember you had a Ragdoll post on the CT forum.
Now I think it's a good idea if it's applied not only to bipeds.
You could make an extension that creates collision primitives and links them with joints, parenting, inverse and forward kinematics. And it wouldn't be to difficult to assign active objects to the position and rotation of such primitives.
And instead of doing collisions with the MMF bitmaps, maybe you would have to add the possibility to creat a static collision mesh over the backdrops. Then it can be used for colliding with primitive and getting the normal information from the vectors of the mesh.
And, by saying it was easy to do in C++ is cuz I have an article where there are a few maths equations that do the ragdoll efects, so I thought you just insert that in C++ and THERE! RAGDOLL! but probably I'm wrong. SORRY!
I meant was, I've seen allot of ragdoll in flash and I've read about ragdoll in C++ so anyone who works well with C++ might be as good in doing a ragdoll, but then againI might be wrong...
But now, GAME MAKER?! what the hell?! come on! if gamemaker can, why can't MMF?!
think about it...
Profile edited as it messed the layout of the site up.
Well if you need it that badly stop whining and pay a few bucks. http://www.nozsoft.co.uk/ or do it your self.
It takes time to make an extension.. Extension makers are the sweetes people and the deserve some money
You can do math with mmf so it is possible to do it with mmf you just need to use more time.
Yep, you need to in invest a whole lot of time and brain juice to do all this with MMF scripting.
Heck, I'd get into extension development and do it myself, if I didn't have a full time job and a girl who whines that we don't spend enough time together.
So it's a good thing that some people allready put time in open source physics engins and that some leet youngsters out there take pride in showing off their m4d 3xtEn5ion d3vel0pmenT 5kil1z.
There is a verlet engine I wrote in c++, proving that I know what I am talking about .
if gamemaker can do it why can't MMF do it?!
Mainly becuase it takes time and considerable effort to do this in any language.
And, by saying it was easy to do in C++ is cuz I have an article where there are a few maths equations that do the ragdoll efects, so I thought you just insert that in C++ and THERE! RAGDOLL! but probably I'm wrong. SORRY!
lol.... ok.
I meant was, I've seen allot of ragdoll in flash and I've read about ragdoll in C++ so anyone who works well with C++ might be as good in doing a ragdoll, but then againI might be wrong...
Flash is actually capable of displaying the effects while MMF is not so capable (plus flash is more popular and has more people desiring physics). As for the second part of your comment, there are some people who are like that but not many of them work with MMF .
But now, GAME MAKER?! what the hell?! come on! if gamemaker can, why can't MMF?!
think about it...
It isn't impossible, it is just hard and not many extension devs are willing to invest the time required.
There are two things you can do really if you can't make it yourself:
A) Wait and assume a developer will eventually take it on (possible).
B) Put up some money and contract a developer to make it.
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and the deserve some money
you just need to use more time.
Edited by the Author.