Yeah, this is last week's news. I could comment the article, but I'm afraid that my liberal views would offend people, instead I'm changing my avatar to that of a stuffed pig. Friends, meet Mohammed
- Ok, you must admit that was the most creative cussing this site have ever seen -
It's really quite sad to hear this sort of thing. How on earth can so many people become so insulted by something so pathetic that they call for the death sentence?
I don't think the phrase 'chill out' appears very often in Sudan.
It's really quite sad to hear this sort of thing. How on earth can so many people become so insulted by something so pathetic that they call for the death sentence?
Maybe they're aggravated there's no A/C over there?
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Excuse me while I go against the current here.. The comments here so far are pretty short-sighted. While I think arresting the woman was going too far, and I do have some sympathy for her, she should have known better.
Originally Posted by X_Sheeperklaas I think it's absolutely ridiculous. Some people name their sons Mohammed too, and nobody complains.
As far as I understand, the issue is that she named an inanimate object after Muhammad.
What I think is absolutely ridiculous is that she went there without educating herself on their laws. Many countries have laws that we regard as "silly" but are actually very serious to the people who live there and form a large part of their culture. We might not understand why, but when you're in their country, you play by their rules.
Did you know that in Britain it's illegal to draw on a stamp? You're defacing the Queen's image and you can justifiably be arrested and charged (if you're unlucky to have met a bored enough police officer.) This is Sudan's version of that.
The media would like us to focus on the stuffed animal, with headlines such as "Arrested over a Teddy Bear", but it's irrelevant. The law is as black and white as that.
Originally Posted by AndyUK[Ectoprods] the death sentence
She was arrested and sentenced to 15 days in prison and deportation. There are probably other reasons why members of the public there were calling for the death sentence.
Originally Posted by NimShe was arrested and sentenced to 15 days in prison and deportation. There are probably other reasons why members of the public there were calling for the death sentence.
Deportation was a sentence? If I was there I'd be happy to get out of the crazy country!
- Ok, you must admit that was the most creative cussing this site have ever seen -
"Did you know that in Britain it's illegal to draw on a stamp? You're defacing the Queen's image and you can justifiably be arrested and charged (if you're unlucky to have met a bored enough police officer.) This is Sudan's version of that."
I don't know about "justifiably" Nim...in the US it's illegal to deface money, but that's because it becomes useless when defaced, not because we're not allowed to draw little mustaches on our presidents...though yes, if you're teaching somewhere, you should know the laws and abide by them, even if they seem stupid...then it's your fault when something goes down...
It's just another example of people taking religion too seriously.
Integrating your religion into your law is this. Wanting to give somebody a death sentence because they let a child name the teddy bear is ridiculous.
In my opinion this is a racist issue rather than a criminal act.
I'm sure in that country there are loads of bad things bearing the name "Mohammed", unless they've made it illegal to call your child that
Nim said:
Many countries have laws that we regard as "silly" but are actually very serious to the people who live there and form a large part of their culture. We might not understand why, but when you're in their country, you play by their rules.
That being said, every country's laws are getting out of hand.
I think it's hard for US citizens to understand--people can burn the US flag here, and although it bothers many people, there's a great number of people who don't really care. I don't think we have the same feeling of national unity as other countries, because of our personal history and general apathy towards everything.
Since people name their kids after the messenger dude, I don't really see much difference in naming a Teddy that name... If a name is sacred, you shouldn't name your kids after it either. Really..
Originally Posted by AndyUK[Ectoprods] the death sentence
She was arrested and sentenced to 15 days in prison and deportation. There are probably other reasons why members of the public there were calling for the death sentence.
Honestly, I hate it every time something like this happens. I hate how the media would take quotes and examples out of context (although I've always respected BBC for not doing such things). I hate how the media that report it right get their licenses revoked. And I hate how it always brings out the stupidity on both sides of the argument.
You don't go to a foriegn culture and insult them. If a teacher went to a school in the UK, stuck up his middle finger and told the kids that "This is how you say 'Hello' where I'm from," that teacher would face disciplinary action. But this would be as culturally shocking as if the teacher would tell a little girl to undress so he could explain the functions of the body. That would explain why so many are demanding that the teacher be burned or whatever. If one of the admins here were strictly secular Muslims, many of you would be banned (happened to me a few times on IRC )
It's an almost innocent mistake. Plenty of kids are named Mohd (which I've personally always found surprising). So, the teacher certainly didn't seem any harm in it. I think some people judge her too harshly and some people judge the people who judge her too harshly too. But I think the Muslim world is pretty angry with the 'white people' for all the recent wars and murders, so it's understandable. The 'white people' are also understandably angry with Muslims for all the terrorism and murders. So, we end up with something like this every time someone trips diplomatically. Remember when jeans were banned in the USSR?
Disclaimer: Any sarcasm in my posts will not be mentioned as that would ruin the purpose. It is assumed that the reader is intelligent enough to tell the difference between what is sarcasm and what is not.
Yeah, if you go to a place where virtually every other child IS CALLED Mohammed, the children would clearly name other things that name... Like me calling a teddy bear 'bob', or 'john' - It's a common name, so I'm likely to name a teddy after it.
I don't really agree with their children bearing that name, personally. If that person is a serial killer of something it doesn't really put that name in a good light.
It's why noone here calls their children Jesus or Jehovah or something - you'd be completely dishonouring the sacred names by adopting it as a human... you know what I mean. I just think the whole thing here is pathetic, completely pathetic.
If I went over there I'd almost be scared to blow my nose ¬_¬ Stupid, messed up, crazy world...
No Muz. Here in the UK we have to abide by everyone elses rules. You could use other examples like US or France. But in the UK we have to play nice with people moving to our country and they can walk over our traditions and heritage.
Originally Posted by Muz You don't go to a foriegn culture and insult them. If a teacher went to a school in the UK, stuck up his middle finger and told the kids that "This is how you say 'Hello' where I'm from," that teacher would face disciplinary action.
Yeah, but there wouldn't be a rally demanding his execution.
Like it or not. Sudan is not a very nice place. Their king is an asshole. Non-muslims are regularly discriminated. In fact, the government has put together an army for WIPING OUT the non-muslim population of the land.
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Originally Posted by Guru Rinpoche It's weird, what about Mexico where a bunch of people are named Jesus? Can you name a teddy bear Jesus there are not have much trouble? Probably.
I guess when you live in a harsh place you adopt harsh laws.
Nothing would happen cause it's just a name and our laws are not based on religion. But I dare you wear a swimming suit here with Mexico's flag on it.
Naming a teddy bear "Muhammad", which is a very common name in Muslim Countries, (Not sure, I think it's the most famous name today.) shouldn't insult anyone, Muslims or not.
More than that, only a small minority of the class found the naming offensive, and 86% of them choose that name for the teddy.
Sentencing the teacher was a very dumb action and didn't have much to do with Muslims themselves, but amazingly stupid, random, not clear specified laws in the countries.
Also integrating law and religion in a way that forbids peoples from doing something shouldn't ever be done.
Other rules like letting religious workers and pupils "day-offs" in their holidays is fine and even needed.
This story just proves that Sudan isn't a very intelligent country that sentence peoples for fictional crimes that were made by other people. (Reminder: The children chose the name, the teacher just confirmed it)
Alonso--our laws aren't based on religion, except for the fact that it dictates our marriage laws (number of people, sex of the people) and holds certain privaledges in the justice system. The seperation of church and state is a lot of baloney.
Originally Posted by Muz You don't go to a foriegn culture and insult them. If a teacher went to a school in the UK, stuck up his middle finger and told the kids that "This is how you say 'Hello' where I'm from," that teacher would face disciplinary action. But this would be as culturally shocking as if the teacher would tell a little girl to undress so he could explain the functions of the body. That would explain why so many are demanding that the teacher be burned or whatever. If one of the admins here were strictly secular Muslims, many of you would be banned (happened to me a few times on IRC )
It's an almost innocent mistake. Plenty of kids are named Mohd (which I've personally always found surprising). So, the teacher certainly didn't seem any harm in it. I think some people judge her too harshly and some people judge the people who judge her too harshly too. But I think the Muslim world is pretty angry with the 'white people' for all the recent wars and murders, so it's understandable. The 'white people' are also understandably angry with Muslims for all the terrorism and murders. So, we end up with something like this every time someone trips diplomatically. Remember when jeans were banned in the USSR?
It's still stupidity on the sudan's authorities side. Unless of course she intended to insult their prophet mohammed. But this really looks like a misunderstanding. I could be wrong and she could have been caught in the act of something sinister. It's a bit farfetched isn't it?
Anyway if a teacher from another 'culture' came to a UK school and accedently insulted a student or another teacher. and IF it was a misunderstanding, then it would also be stupid to punish them.
Surely a persons job or freedom is more important than a few people being insulted.
It's easy for us to sit here and talk about how stupid it is that religion is taken so seriously, so much so that there are those who called for the death of this school teacher. I would suggest that this school teacher should have thought it through a little more thoroughly, considering more or less anybody who has the slightest inkling of Islam knows that Muhammad is held in reverence. We don't live there and we don't understand it, nor do we understand the anger that's being vented. I do understand that as a Christian I would take great insult if you were to say bash Jesus or something like that (Like some in these forums have done in the past). Fortunately, I also belive that if God could forgive us, then that's what I'm supposed to do as well. We live in a very liberal society with an incredible amount of freedom. Far as I'm concerned, I won't exactly be going to this country and flaunting my Christianity and expect to be safe. As for all those in this forum who have taken it upon themselves to name their avatars Muhammad, grow up. Finally, for those who are wondering why you can name a person 'Jesus' in Mexico and get away with it? It's because Christianity is not Islam. I'm just glad the Sudanese authorities gave in to pressure and let the teacher go.
I've come up with all sorts of amazing new ideas... I just can't afford to make them.
I believe they called for a death sentence because it's idolatry. These are the sort of people who go to church 3 times a day, of course they're going to be mad if they think you're comparing their religious figures to teddies. There's really no western equivilent because we hate all figures of authority and religion.
Originally Posted by _Zigzag_ the Reindeer I believe they called for a death sentence because it's idolatry. These are the sort of people who go to church 3 times a day, of course they're going to be mad if they think you're comparing their religious figures to teddies. There's really no western equivilent because we hate all figures of authority and religion.
Originally Posted by _Zigzag_ the Reindeer I believe they called for a death sentence because it's idolatry. These are the sort of people who go to church 3 times a day, of course they're going to be mad if they think you're comparing their religious figures to teddies. There's really no western equivilent because we hate all figures of authority and religion.
Originally Posted by LIJI. Why don't they triple the punishment for murderers, rapists and thefts named Muhammad then?
They're comparing their religious figures to criminals.
And also to Ben.
This is a religion that, in court, requires 2 female witnesses in lieu of 1 male witness. I'm not even going to go on about how backwards they are. Don't make them sound like a noble race when their religion is as oppressive as this. The excuse of Sharia Law being "it prevents the crime" doesn't exactly work when the crimes are still being committed.
Woman gets raped in a car. The rapers are punished and so is the woman by 40-60 lashes (I forget the exact number).
They're broken. Taking values and beliefs from the dark ages and applying them in a modern world. Even Catholicism has gone with the times to some degree.
Originally Posted by Ben It's easy for us to sit here and talk about how stupid it is that religion is taken so seriously, so much so that there are those who called for the death of this school teacher. I would suggest that this school teacher should have thought it through a little more thoroughly, considering more or less anybody who has the slightest inkling of Islam knows that Muhammad is held in reverence.
Some things you just can't see coming. I'm fairly sure this woman had lived in sudan for some time and was well aware of their culture and laws.
But 'culture' is no excuse for the madness that goes on in whatever country you're currently talking about.
Of course it's madnesss. I never defended their actions, nor do I agree that what they did was "right". All I was trying to convey is it's arrogant to call a society backwards and foolish when we know so little about it. I would argue in many ways our own western societies have overstepped their limits on more than one occasion. We too are guilty of torture, rape and murder. We too promote revenge. I'm not saying we're on the same path, but we certainly haven't been very exemplary either. I would agree however that our general recognition of say gender and racial rights are somewhat more forward.
Don't get me wrong, I'll be the first to condemn the calls for this woman's death. I just got a little irked at the direction this conversation was going when it came to religion in general and thought I should say something anyhow.
I've come up with all sorts of amazing new ideas... I just can't afford to make them.
You're getting your wires crossed. Christianity promotes its followers to "turn the other cheek" and all that. Don't get religion mixed up with your nearest urban culture.
And don't assume we know nothing about their religion.
Not all Muslims hold the same stupid, backwards, bigoted views. Just the ones that you hear the most from on the news. Sharia law is certainly one of the most barbaric ways to govern a society, but being a Muslim does not make one into someone who wants to bring about Sharia law, just as being a Christian does not preclude one from believing in evolution.
Any religion will have its share of whackjobs, lunatic fringe, and fanatic. Sudan is a rat sphincter of a country to begin with, so you can bet it will have a higher concentration of said whackjobs. But there are good, respectful, rational people who are Muslims. They believe in their faith, but they are quick to condemn terrorists, fundamentalists, and those who exploit the religion as an excuse for violence. I would say they are the true Muslims, and the people in charge of Sudan, terrorist groups, and the radical mosques preaching hatred are false Muslims.
Now, I've stuck up for Islam, but now it's time that I put the hypocrites among their number down as well:
Mohammed is a very common boy's name in Arab culture, and the teacher didn't even pick the name herself. Instead, it was recommended and voted for by the Muslim children. Why don't those children get punished? After all, they chose the name. They voted on it. They selected it. All the teacher was doing was recognizing democracy.
Let's face it: the people who claim to be Muslims in the world but ignore the "love" and "compassion" and "kindness" parts of the religion are the biggest, most spoiled crybabies in the world, and we, the rest of the world, ourselves every time they throw a temper tantrum because they control the world's oil supply, have guns, and are psychotic.
If wishes were fishes then we'd all smell like ladies' underwear.
Originally Posted by Bo Fu Not all Muslims hold the same stupid, backwards, bigoted views. Just the ones that you hear the most from on the news. Sharia law is certainly one of the most barbaric ways to govern a society, but being a Muslim does not make one into someone who wants to bring about Sharia law, just as being a Christian does not preclude one from believing in evolution.
There was a poll from a year or 2 ago saying ~80% of British Muslims want Sharia Law in England.
Originally Posted by Guru Rinpoche I think it's hard for US citizens to understand--people can burn the US flag here, and although it bothers many people, there's a great number of people who don't really care. I don't think we have the same feeling of national unity as other countries, because of our personal history and general apathy towards everything.
I don't think we have the same feeling of national unity as other countries-
oh come!
you know that this is just not true. you are the fucking united states of america. if you guys dont have national unity which country does?
I like to think that, for the most part, the problem behind this is the people, not the religion they claim to follow.
For instance, in the UK, we're fairly liberal. Pretty much anything goes, so long as it's not a blatant perversion like child abuse. And life is considered important by the majority, to the extent that we only really have one death penalty now in peace time, and that's high treason.
As a result, the churches over here will generally have female priests and same-sex-marriages, regardless of what the Bible actually says on the subject.
Conversely, in a culture where life is cheap, and people can have their hand cut off for stealing something, religions are likely to receive the same kind of stretch-to-fit treatment, but in the opposite direction.
For me, this kinda suggests that the religions themselves are not responsible. Al Quaida are not blowing people up because of Islam, they're blowing people up because they're psychotic murderous gits. They're just using Islam as a lame excuse.
Right well, I have to say that it is kinda sad to see what lots of people think about Islam. If you think about it logically, youll understand that you cannot generalize on the whole religion based on the actions of a few. And sadly, thats what most people have been doing. What happened in Sudan, I think was over reaction. If the woman meant no insult to Islam's Prophet then I think, she should not have been punished at all. What Im trying to say is that every religion has its bad seeds. Murderers, war mongers, rapists and what not. And that you cannot judge a religion by its people, seeing that many dont follow it correctly. I mean, how many of us follow our respective religions to the word?
What I assume is that the people who rallied outside the prison in favor of killing that woman were illiterate; in religion or otherwise. Not surprisingly, the literacy rate isnt very high in muslim countries and ironically enough, Islam encourages education.
As for the terrorist groups such as Al Qaeda and other factions, I agree that they use Islam as a lame excuse for terrorism. Islam means peace and it says in the Koran to respect all other religions as well. I do not think that you'll ever find a muslim insulting Jesus or Moses. I think its very juvenile that some of you are using 'Mohammad' as an avatar for pigs or something even more silly.
I beleive someone said that if a woman is raped by someone, she receives 60 lashes by Shariah law. Not true. She has no punishment at all. I looked it up. It would be stupid if Islam said that, considering as she was the victim in the first place. My suggestion to everyone would be to study the religion first and then, if you think its crap or if muslims are meatballs, by all means go ahead and post about it. Cause, in my opinion, its very illogical to state that some religion is for 'faggots' or something if you dont even know what it is. Heh, well, thats wht i think anyway.
DaVince This fool just HAD to have a custom rating
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Points 7998
12th December, 2007 at 04:39:15 -
Originally Posted by \/\/olf Right well, I have to say that it is kinda sad to see what lots of people think about Islam. If you think about it logically, youll understand that you cannot generalize on the whole religion based on the actions of a few. And sadly, thats what most people have been doing.
Originally Posted by \/\/olf I beleive someone said that if a woman is raped by someone, she receives 60 lashes by Shariah law. Not true. She has no punishment at all.
Well, if the man is convicted that is. If he's not, then it's lashtime for bearing false witness. Now, for the man to be convicted the woman needs four witnesses supporting her story. Otherwise, LASHTIME.
So if you're raping in Muslim-land, make sure there are no more than three witnesses!
Well, shouldn't that make Muslim-land the ideal vacation spot for rapists? Though, imagine if you did get convicted there! They cut off your hand for stealing, just imagine what they'd cut off for raping
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- Ok, you must admit that was the most creative cussing this site have ever seen -
Originally Posted by \/\/olf I beleive someone said that if a woman is raped by someone, she receives 60 lashes by Shariah law. Not true. She has no punishment at all.
Well, if the man is convicted that is. If he's not, then it's lashtime for bearing false witness. Now, for the man to be convicted the woman needs four witnesses supporting her story. Otherwise, LASHTIME.
So if you're raping in Muslim-land, make sure there are no more than three witnesses!
Well, shouldn't that make Muslim-land the ideal vacation spot for rapists? Though, imagine if you did get convicted there! They cut off your hand for stealing, just imagine what they'd cut off for raping
I beleive someone said that if a woman is raped by someone, she receives 60 lashes by Shariah law. Not true. She has no punishment at all. I looked it up. It would be stupid if Islam said that, considering as she was the victim in the first place. My suggestion to everyone would be to study the religion first and then, if you think its crap or if muslims are meatballs, by all means go ahead and post about it. Cause, in my opinion, its very illogical to state that some religion is for 'faggots' or something if you dont even know what it is. Heh, well, thats wht i think anyway.
oh, and
"Under Saudi Arabia’s strict interpretation of Islamic Sharia law, women are not allowed in public in the company of men other than relatives."
Like I mentioned before, its not in the religion. The govt were at fault here and I think it was stupid to punish the woman. I retain my opinion still.
Originally Posted by Santareeke Originally Posted by \/\/olf I beleive someone said that if a woman is raped by someone, she receives 60 lashes by Shariah law. Not true. She has no punishment at all.
Well, if the man is convicted that is. If he's not, then it's lashtime for bearing false witness. Now, for the man to be convicted the woman needs four witnesses supporting her story. Otherwise, LASHTIME.
So if you're raping in Muslim-land, make sure there are no more than three witnesses!
Well, shouldn't that make Muslim-land the ideal vacation spot for rapists? Though, imagine if you did get convicted there! They cut off your hand for stealing, just imagine what they'd cut off for raping
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Hahaha. Well, I've never heard of them doing such a thing tho. Altho, my friend once showed me a video of it despite me not wanting to see it. I donno where the video took place or where he got it but...it was chopped. Poor guy... Anyway, I still retain my opinion.
Like \/\/olf said, you cannot base your judgement of an entire religion and culture on the beliefs and actions of extremists. Religious extremists have ALWAYS existed. Governments are COMPLETELY fucked up in SO MANY countries. Generalizing and saying things like "their religion is oppressive" is wrong. THIS IS WHAT RELIGION IS.
Christian extremists exist and have existed in quantity also. I don't even want to go into the shit caused by christianity. But when I meet someone who is christian I don't hold any kind of judgement, especially because such a large percentage of the world is some form of christianity. Extremists do not represent a group. They represent a certain view of a group.
I live in the US. A huge portion of this country is reformed/secular. In countries like Saudi Arabia, because there is no seperation between religion and gov't, religion hasn't died down like it has here. People are strict/orthodox, and actually observe Islam. However, extremists earn themselves names in global news, and people judge their whole religion because of it. That's just not right. Religion has always been like this; people are intolerant.
James: "Turn the other cheek"... The Bible, the Torah, and the Qur'an all say things like this. In fact, other than small rituals and the stories presented in these scriptures, they basically present the same teachings and morals. These religions are closely related. If Judaism and Christianity are acceptable, then so is Islam.
Rape gets pretty much ignored by the justice system in EVERY country, not just islamic ones. I think the figure was like 61% of all rapes go unreported, of the remaining 41%, 54% of those get dismissed or aquitted from court, and of the 46% of cases that get convicted, 21% are never sentenced, and 24% just get detention in local jail as if it were a misdemeanor.
If you're not great at math, that means only ~10% of rapes actually get someone put into prison.
oh, and despite there being about 54% that get aquitted or dismissed, the false reporting of rape is only 2.5% of all cases.
Oh and across the pond in the kings country, its 6% get convictions and 20% get reported.
But yeah, those dirty muslims rape women left and right and get away with it! (*rolls eyes*)
Christian extremists exist and have existed in quantity also. I don't even want to go into the shit caused by christianity. But when I meet someone who is christian I don't hold any kind of judgement, especially because such a large percentage of the world is some form of christianity. Extremists do not represent a group. They represent a certain view of a group.
Interesting, what do you mean by Christian extremists? To me it sounds as if the extremists of Christianity aren't actually living a "christian" life.
It is always a problem when you have a government based on religion. If you want an excuse to do otherwise inexcusable acts then religion is it really. Women getting stoned to death for showing their ankles in public, perfectly civilised people being lined up and shot for believing differently to whichever asshole is in charge, these are all acts in which religion is the unfortunate scapegoat.
Because almost any religion isn't derived from any logical process of thought (at least not by today's standards) and since it is something dependant on faith and hence cannot be proven one way or another, religious views are always going to differ. So you are never going to take everyone's needs into account if you have a government based on one particular religion rather than an impartial government open to everyones needs. That and the fact that a religious based government is practically a breeding ground for corruption.
Since the government in sudan is muslim, they either fail to see both sides of the arguement or (more likely) they simply ignore one side of the arguement. If they condemn this woman for a silly mistake such as this, but then let her off lightly after a bit of encouragement from the outside world, it shows compassion so maybe its possible the sudanese government milked this whole thing. I can't seriously believe for a moment that they would have made so much fuss about it if they didn't think there was something in it for them. An act of unforgiviable heresy? Yeah, right. I mean you can only take offence at something so much within reason...
EDIT: Just in reply to that world map of democracy post, I think its pretty preposterous to say that we're democratic because we are all christians. There are many other factors that all come in to it as a proper study would show, not just what particular god (if any) you choose to believe in.
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Stuckboy
JC Denton: "I know your UNATCO killphrase: Laputan Machine."
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Whoa, whoa. First of all, I'm Muslim and I don't see half the things you guys mention about syaria'h law. Syaria'h law covers a lot of things and is much easier than most laws in a lot of things, namely divorces. Rape is dealt with very harshly and only in the less intelligent countries do they punish the victim. The lashes punishment was intended for adultery/fornication *in front of other people*.
Sorry to say, but the chopping off hands bit is part of it and something I support, because stastistics shows that it has cut down theft to almost 0%. Chopping off someone's hand is certainly better than an innocent being injured in a mugging. And the punishment is not meted out as lightly as people suggest, there is a long list of conditions for it, including that the theft wasn't done out of force or hunger, the object stolen wasn't too tempting (stealing a laptop left on a bench doesn't get your hand chopped off), the hand isn't crucial for survival, and a lot more that I forgot. But most Muslim countries don't include it, because of its apparent barbarism.
Of course, there are a lot of countries that that have a lot of stupid laws and blame it on religion. But it's more of culture/tradition rather than religion.. most people confuse Arabian culture with Islam, including here, where they brand Arabian architecture as Islamic architecture. And there are quite a few sects which do have those stupid laws.. but they're heretics as far as I'm concerned.
That religion map is pretty damn inaccurate. I don't think a "Chinese religion" exists. Chinese people mainly follow Christianity, Buddhism, Taoism, Islam. Yes, plenty of Christian Chinese in undemocratic China too, believe it or not. And I'm pretty sure that Malaysia and Indonesia do not follow Sunni or Shi'ite Islam. And I'll argue that Malaysia is not as democratic as the map says.. so far only one political party has won elections in the history of the nation and they've branded any protestors as 'terrorists', so we can't protest on that either. But I won't go too far with that, I'm sure some people would argue otherwise
But there is nothing wrong with an Islamic government. It's a philosophy and a science. The original Islamic Arabians governed very well. It's only when they tossed aside the worldly part of the religion that the empire collapsed.
Disclaimer: Any sarcasm in my posts will not be mentioned as that would ruin the purpose. It is assumed that the reader is intelligent enough to tell the difference between what is sarcasm and what is not.
Don't agree with you there Muz, Islam is borne of Arabic culture. Its laws, its teachings are all based on stuff practised many, many years before Mohammed made an appearance - same as any religion. You cannot split Islamic and Arabic culture, they are the same thing.
I also agree that those maps are terribly misleading. For example, Ireland is decreed more democratic than the UK - seems very arbitrary. Also, so what if the over-riding Islamic/Arabian government form is not democracy? Why do we have this fixation on forcing democracy on places that clearly don't want it? You can have a perfectly civilised nation without having democratic elections.
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