A while back someone in Tutti Fruti's download section started making unhelpful remarks such as "change the controls, this sucks."
Another person made what was essentially a longer, more drawn out version of this in my download section. He self admittedly unleased a "Buttload of hurt". His remarks were utterly unhelpful, crudely pointing out issues with the game without any helpful solutions as to how to solve them, or being in the slightest understanding of some of the inherent difficulties in what I was doing, or my own. And people defended this and berating me for getting more and more upset about this, saying I couldn't accept criticism when a few posts before I was listening just fine. This level of sheer delusion made me RAGE quite a lot. What's more one of the mods, Knudde, essentially took their side, saying they say nothing out of line, which is ridiculous.
A number of people continued to aggrivate this by essentially forcing me to accept poorly worded, mean spirited criticism.
I am tired of this. Feedback in the downloads section should always be reasonable. It's not as if they're defending something personal, so I don't see the easn for the viciousness. I however think I have a right to stand up for myself and my decisions.
People shouldn't HAVE to accept cricism just because it's criticism. You'll always get people doing it just to feel big and clever and we shouldn't be throwing those people a bone. It is, amazingly, possible to offer "criticism" which is unhelpful and inherently volatile.
If the mods are going to take their side then there's no hope. The argument in my thread at least should be deleted and in future people should be only allowed to post genuine constructive criticism. What on earth is the point in setting out on the attack when you're meant to be helpful?
There should be no comments like "feature x is basicaly rubbish". There is nothing to be gained by making nasty comment's against someone's game, and nobody should have to accept it. It's not the creator's fault they can't deal with it when it shouldn't be there to begin with. This would go miles to making htis place a more friendly, encouraging place.
Check out my Telekinesis'em'up Thread and the ALICE Machines -
You've twisted my words. I reread all of Shroomlock's comments, who you claimed was being the aggressor; he wasn't (In my determination). You on the other hand, vulgarly abused several members. Perhaps I should have given you site warnings for them (Which would have instituted a ban BTW), but I decided to give you a chance, figuring that you had just been a bit heated up. I think I made the wrong decision.
If things were as they should be, then there wouldn't be an argument. I agree with some of Roseweave's statements. I understand criticism is necessary, but people here tend to take things overboard sometimes. Alot of the people like that have left. I don't think a big discussion needs to spawn from this. I think it should be locked before something erupts, and everyone should just think before they post something that may not be needed or is too spiteful.
Anyway, I'm ready to hand out warnings to everyone who got out of line in that section, but I really don't want it to come to that. I was hoping that it would calm down on it's own, but then again, this is TDC.
Originally Posted by Knudde (Shab) You've twisted my words. I reread all of Shroomlock's comments, who you claimed was being the aggressor; he wasn't (In my determination). You on the other hand, vulgarly abused several members. Perhaps I should have given you site warnings for them (Which would have instituted a ban BTW), but I decided to give you a chance, figuring that you had just been a bit heated up. I think I made the wrong decision.
Anyway, what do you the people think?
You provided no reasoning for your "determination". He used a number of heavily weighted phrases that set the mess in motion. You judged me for having a more aggressive tone - which is pure style over substance. You seem to be incapable of understanding whati mean by "aggressor", or at least in determine who one is.
You were initially right that I was VERY heated up. In my view, ou don't seem to be the slightest intersted in using reason to resolve a situation, only using it a an excuse to dish out warnings(god knows why). For example, handing out warnings only aggrivated me further. If you had just deleted the offending posts like what happened at one point in the Tutti Fruit thread, I wouldn't be even MORE fired up(and with good reason), and the mess would be gone. It would have been the best solution for EVERYOE. Yes, it takes a couple of minutes to do this, I know. But if you don't do the job properly, you shouldn't have botherd doing anything.
Being a moderator should not mean you are absolved from doing a good job. Nor should you take pleasure in punishing people, "Shiny New Warnings" is a very worrying way of putting it.
If you delete the offending posts it will help make up for what is in my opinion your extremely poor judgment, and it would resolve the situation.
Such worded "critcism" should not have been allowed to begin with. It feels demeaning that I have warning because you consider properly moderating the comments section to be "Babysitting".
Even if I was to blame, your resultant actions have aggrivated the situation further. This is completely contrary to what a moderator should be. There was a solution that would have ceased the argument. You did not choose it even when it was pointed out to you. Please swallow your pride and just do the right thing. I am genuinely distressed over this, it happened on my game's download page, whereas they have no similar reason to be acting the way they do.
Edited by the Author.
Check out my Telekinesis'em'up Thread and the ALICE Machines -
Originally Posted by Marvel Forever Forget what I said about making the full game. After this mess, you will be lucky if it only got one download...lol.
Let it go Rosie...you're image and reputation are swirling down the toilet every time your fingers hit the key board.
If you would just apologize and accept some responsibilty this can all end. And you seem to egging Knude on. Is a banning what you really want? If thats the case just dont visit this site. Watch youtube videos all day instead.
No, I don't want to be banned. However I do have things called "Principles" that I stand up for. That's more important to me than image or reputation or membership on a board. Not visiting this site will not change what happened, nor will it stop someone else being abused in my place.
Check out my Telekinesis'em'up Thread and the ALICE Machines -
Originally Posted by LIJI What is wrong with this comic? I find it quite funny. There are tons of these anyway, no one was banned or even warned for making them.
Because it's offensive in so many ways. If you can't see it then it just proves that this place is heavy in people who've no real sense at all.
I bitched about those comics when I came back too. I wasn't very fond of how people continued to spout shit about me while I was gone, but apparently that wasn't against the rules. Given that, it's not surprising I'm worked up about this.
Edited by the Author.
Check out my Telekinesis'em'up Thread and the ALICE Machines -
You provided no reasoning for your "determination". He used a number of heavily weighted phrases that set the mess in motion. You judged me for having a more aggressive tone - which is pure style over substance. You seem to be incapable of understanding whati mean by "aggressor", or at least in determine who one is.
Shroomlocks Comments Below:
Ben wasn't saying his criticism was sacred, he's saying that there isn't a point in arguing about it because you're the creator and he's the player. You obviously made the game the way you thought it was best, so your "disagreement" is already implied. It's not a matter of debate, it's a matter of whether or not you will listen to anyone other than yourself.
He shared his experience with your game, and that's something that can't be debated. I had a really hard time with the controls too, and I stopped playing your game because of that. That's something you can't argue with me about. You can't say "No no, you didn't have a hard time."
You can't argue with someone's personal experience with your game because their experience is what it is, it happened the way it happened and isn't up for debate.
OF COURSE you will disagree with any criticism. But there comes a point when you have to consider what your players are saying simply because they are the players. Will you still disagree when five people have a problem with something? Ten? Twenty?
I like your idea for this game, but the controls made this game unplayable for me. You can either get angry at me for saying that, or consider it as friendly advice from someone who really wants to enjoy the full version of your game.
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Well, I said before that you would either get angry or listen to what people are trying to tell you. You chose to get angry.
There are a lot of people here who are trying to give you good and much needed help with your game, but you've called people (including me) lazy, out of touch, unreasonable, and apparantley "unable to accept artistic direction". You've also called this entire community "set in it's ways" and not diverse enough for your games. You even finally just came out and said that you're better off just not listening to any criticism. Why are you posting your game here then? To show us how awesome you are?
You've set yourself up on a pretty high pedestal. That would explain why you don't want to listen to anyone, it's because you already consider yourself better than everyone. You're even arrogant enough to tell us that you can debate with us about whether or not we LIKE your game?
Unless you snap out of your bubble, you'd better get used to a small number of downloads.
Everyone here was only trying to help.
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Look, I wish you the best of luck with future projects. The problem here is that you see people like me as people just trying to bring you down, and that's not true. It makes all of this stuff snowball out of control.
If you'll go back to your project page, there is exactly one thread, started by one person, trying to encourage you.
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Listen to yourself. I'm moving on dude, you have some things to sort out.
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Those are the comments that were made before I spoke up. I should point out that you called him a d*ck by this point. Maybe he wasn't very nice, but I'm not here to make people be nice, I'm here to enforce the rules which are CLEARLY STATED.
You were initially right that I was VERY heated up. In my view, ou don't seem to be the slightest intersted in using reason to resolve a situation, only using it a an excuse to dish out warnings(god knows why). For example, handing out warnings only aggrivated me further. If you had just deleted the offending posts like what happened at one point in the Tutti Fruit thread, I wouldn't be even MORE fired up(and with good reason), and the mess would be gone. It would have been the best solution for EVERYOE. Yes, it takes a couple of minutes to do this, I know. But if you don't do the job properly, you shouldn't have botherd doing anything.
As previously stated, I don't delete comments. That's essentially taking away freedom of speech. You can say what you want, but if it's against the rules, there are consequences. Like the site warnings which essentially do nothing anyway.
Being a moderator should not mean you are absolved from doing a good job. Nor should you take pleasure in punishing people, "Shiny New Warnings" is a very worrying way of putting it.
I'm glad you think I'm doing a bad job. There's other who think that too. Then there are other who think I do a rather good job. If you think I shouldn't be a Mod, then say so. Nothing's stopping you from mailing Rikus or any of the others to get me removed.
That shiny new warnings bit was my expression of frustration that I had to waste a bunch of time reading everything in that section because many people couldn't simply chill out.
If you delete the offending posts it will help make up for what is in my opinion your extremely poor judgment, and it would resolve the situation.
Sorry, I don't delete comments.
Such worded "critcism" should not have been allowed to begin with. It feels demeaning that I have warning because you consider properly moderating the comments section to be "Babysitting".
Even if I was to blame, your resultant actions have aggrivated the situation further. This is completely contrary to what a moderator should be. There was a solution that would have ceased the argument. You did not choose it even when it was pointed out to you. Please swallow your pride and just do the right thing. I am genuinely distressed over this, it happened on my game's download page, whereas they have no similar reason to be acting the way they do.
You have a warning because of your vulgarity and repeated verbal abuse of members. There's a difference between not being nice and abuse.
What's this solution you're talking of? Shroomlock suggested I delete all the comments. They aren't my comments to delete. You guys have delete and edit buttons for a reason. It's not my place to delete your comments.
Then you don't do your job properly. You fail to put your own unbacked ethics aside for doing what would have kept the peace in that particular instance.
I have no idea how you can even claim to have ethics when you came down by far the hardest on the person who was essentially the underdog. If you weren't prepared to judge the situation properly, you should have left it up to someone who would have done.
Check out my Telekinesis'em'up Thread and the ALICE Machines -
He shared his experience with your game, and that's something that can't be debated.
He used unnecessary, volatile language that would have set off other than people than me too. If you can't crack down
on this, you are useless as a moderator.
Also, I was talking about Ben, not Shroomlock. Calling someone a dick is impersonal as I can
call anyone a dick when they're acting a bit barmy. Shroomlock made personal attacks. Granted he admitted he was harsh,
which was great of him. However, you have yet to admit your judgement was poor, Ben much the same.
I'm here to enforce the rules which are CLEARLY STATED.
There are about 20 different ways you can define "abusing" a person. I would have counted Ben's "boatload of hurt" as
abusive, as well as calling things "basically rubbish" with no or very vague/impractical suggestions as how to improve
them.
No rules are even completely unambiguous. They are not there for you to hide behind.
I'm glad you think I'm doing a bad job. There's other who think that too. Then there are other who think I do a rather good job. If you think I shouldn't be a Mod, then say so. Nothing's stopping you from mailing Rikus or any of the others to get me removed.
I have contacted other mods about this. However given what was allowed to be said abot me in my absence here, I am unsure the others are
much better than you.
Unlike you, I prefer to appeal to reason over power.
That shiny new warnings bit was my expression of frustration
YOUR frustration? I bet you didn't even stop for second to put yourself in my shoes, did you?
because many people couldn't simply chill out.
Because you were unwilling to nip things in bud when it started gettng volatile. Starting out you blamed me and ONLY me.
We are not going to all mutually withdraw the comments. Chances are at least one person will leave theirs there making them
How come I am your member to warn, but they are not your comments to delete? Both are equally in your power as a moderator. How do you distinct these things? From what do you derive your ethics?
Again, warning does nothing except aggrivate things further. You need to take responsibility for your actions. It doesn't matter what anyone thinks of you, however, the fact remains that you aggrivated a situation more than resolving it. You pushed me into taking it on the forums. Even if you blame me for that, you still had a hand in it.
If you apologise and delete the comments, or even just delete the comments, it will be over.
Edited by the Author.
Check out my Telekinesis'em'up Thread and the ALICE Machines -
Originally Posted by LIJI What is wrong with this comic? I find it quite funny. There are tons of these anyway, no one was banned or even warned for making them.
Because it's offensive in so many ways.
Edited by the Author.
The truth is very offensive isn't it. I posted this because this is what you are acting like right now.
We mods get accused of being Nazi's enough without having "burning books" conversations. Deleting comments in the past has pissed off more people than anything else in TDC history. I'm not going to unsay what someone said just because I have mod powers. I'll deal with the backlash, I'm a big boy.
Originally Posted by LIJI What is wrong with this comic? I find it quite funny. There are tons of these anyway, no one was banned or even warned for making them.
Because it's offensive in so many ways.
Edited by the Author.
The truth is very offensive isn't it. I posted this because this is what you are acting like right now.
And annoyingly, if I called you a dick, I'd probably get warned again.
That comic is based on the presumption that I am without a doubt in the wrong. And now you're pulling this "truth hurts" rubbish as if your poorly concieved comic contains any. It's a strawman of the situation as it reduces it to the point where it doesn't contain any of the important points of the argument. It's ridiculously obnoxious and you should have been ashamed.
It's not "the truth" and that particular depiction of me is offensive enough on it's own. For it to be true you'd first have to prove that I am in the wrong and Knudde is in the right.
Check out my Telekinesis'em'up Thread and the ALICE Machines -
Originally Posted by Knudde (Shab) We mods get accused of being Nazi's enough without having "burning books" conversations. Deleting comments in the past has pissed off more people than anything else in TDC history. I'm not going to unsay what someone said just because I have mod powers. I'll deal with the backlash, I'm a big boy.
Sorry Roseweave, I don't deal with ultimatums.
Edited by an Administrator.
But you'll still pick on the underdog in an argument and feel free to make demontratably poor decisions.
Pathetic.
You are not unsaying anything. It's still been said and people have seen it, like an unlogged IRC convo.
How do you expect the page to continue on with those comments there? Or even with just Ben's commentry there?
I have a good mind to remove the download entirely. It'd be unfair to the people who did offer helpful criticism, but it's what I might have to do.
Edited by the Author.
Check out my Telekinesis'em'up Thread and the ALICE Machines -
Not my fault you broke the rules. Everyone who breaks them in the manner you did gets the same treatment. If shroomie had called you a d*ck, he would have gotten a warning. He didn't, you did. Sorry if you don't like it.
Originally Posted by Knudde (Shab) Not my fault you broke the rules. Everyone who breaks them in the manner you did gets the same treatment. If shroomie had called you a d*ck, he would have gotten a warning. He didn't, you did. Sorry if you don't like it.
It is entirely your decision how to act on them, I already pointed out how ambiguous they are(What do you consider "abuse" of another human being?), not to mention you're part of the people who define them to begin with. Your rules and actions are not some kind of unquestionable creed.
You are, simply put, not doing your job if you are improperly keeping the peace. This is not even my opinion since it goes against what a moderator is intended to be to begin with. Moderating is not about keeping to the rules, it's about taking the best course of action to resolve a situation.
Like it or not, I'm using actual reasoning and you are appealing to your rules. This is the formal fallacy of appeal to force and seems to be about all you have to say. Your argument is weak. I do not see any reason in continuing disucssion with someone with no respect for reason, I can only hope one of the other moderators does have some.
Edited by the Author.
Check out my Telekinesis'em'up Thread and the ALICE Machines -
Originally Posted by Shroomlock I'm going to delete all of my comments from your download page, Roseweave. Anyone who wants to join me can do the same.
Thank you for that. However, I suspect that Ben will not. Not to mention that if the downloads section continues to be improperly policed I can see this happening again with someone else.
Check out my Telekinesis'em'up Thread and the ALICE Machines -
Originally Posted by Marvel Forever I bet Rosewave lives with a lot cats and writes Ugly Betty fan fiction in his basement when hes not on here writing all this junk.
Going to do anything about this Knudde? After all you did very little about all the comments that were made to me behind my back.
Check out my Telekinesis'em'up Thread and the ALICE Machines -
Originally Posted by Marvel Forever I bet Rosewave lives with a lot cats and writes Ugly Betty fan fiction in his basement when hes not on here writing all this junk.
Going to do anything about this Knudde? After all you did very little about all the comments that were made to me behind my back.
I'm not a moderator in your eyes, so just Admin Alert it (On the left of the page) and you can have another mod deal with it. I suspect anything I do at this point is simply going to irritate you further. If you want me to handle it, then simply say so; don't try to make this a personal challenge.
haha this thread is really funny.
Why the fuck do you care so much what a bunch of nerds from a online board you'll probably never get to know in your life think about you or you principles ?
Seriously roseweave just drop the atitude, I'm tired of seeing this thread on the top of the latest posts list.
Ai Ai Ai... it erupted anyways. Roseweave, I think you're just as guilty of some rottenly stupid stuff as everyone else here, evidenced by this topic... I'm not trying to be mean, I've done stupid stuff too! But you did go a bit overboard. Take a chill pill, roll with the punches, you'll do ok. And for the love of crispy cupcakes, WHY DO PEOPLE KEEP GETTING MAD AT THE MODS?? *sigh* I'm with Klikmaster, let's make games and be happy. What's the point of arguing over piddly stuff like this? PFFF! Principles. HA! You're on an INTERNET COMMUNITY BOARD. People will be stupid. Try not to join them.
Originally Posted by Giant OldManClayton Panda Ai Ai Ai... it erupted anyways. Roseweave, I think you're just as guilty of some rottenly stupid stuff as everyone else here, evidenced by this topic... I'm not trying to be mean, I've done stupid stuff too! But you did go a bit overboard. Take a chill pill, roll with the punches, you'll do ok. And for the love of crispy cupcakes, WHY DO PEOPLE KEEP GETTING MAD AT THE MODS?? *sigh* I'm with Klikmaster, let's make games and be happy. What's the point of arguing over piddly stuff like this? PFFF! Principles. HA! You're on an INTERNET COMMUNITY BOARD. People will be stupid. Try not to join them.
I am pissed off at Knudde because he's not doing his job and is furthermore being smug about it. Both Shroomlock and I removed our comments but Marvel Forever and the others refuse to.
I am going to have to delete the download completely which isn't fair on the people who were trying to be helpful.
If people like ZigZag didn't have such stupid views on what criticism should be this wouldn't happen. If someone is going to act like a jerk, it's going to incite others to. It didn't even happen immediately either, it took several posts before it got really heated. Whatever people say about me I never become testy until someone else does or says something stupid first.
This is not a commercial product, nor is it meant to be the best thing since sliced bread. I have a right to defend my work and stand up for principles I believe in.
I still refuse to believe there is any point to criticism unless it's constructive criticism.
Check out my Telekinesis'em'up Thread and the ALICE Machines -
This "free speech" excuse is rubbish since free speech is only what's defined by rules or the law anyway. Speech that's deemed as harmful is blocked in practically every culture and especially every forum(though they usually get it wrong). If you want to bitch about someone's game to your friends, then feel free. I even made a thread to keep the rubbish out of my download page so it wouldn't get any worse, which ZigZag kindly ignored. But a comments section like this should not give you a free pass to act like a pretentious cynical jerk.
Check out my Telekinesis'em'up Thread and the ALICE Machines -
I hope that you deleting the download doesn't stop Sheex from providing more indepth C&C in the future. Can't believe you're willing to remove a download just because of some negative and argumentative comments, kinda weak IMO.
You know Roseweave, it seems to me that you like to argue absolutely every little detail you have an issue with. If you keep this up you're only going to stress yourself out.
Also eventually the Admins to take stronger action to stop all this and i doubt they'll ignore your contributions.
Oh, because I thought you were making a judgment about my whole nation or something.
I don't really care either I was just messing with you.
But Roseweave, Calm down. please.
I'm pretty sure everyone is getting tired of all this fighting that your having. (I'm not saying you started it, or that you didn't)
Seriously though, we all need to drop this. It's over with.
Your just jealous that you're not as awesome as me.
(And my megaman avatar )
Yikes, so were to begin. First you can't control feedback in the downloads section this can not be monitored. In most cases feedback is helpful sometimes it is not. In the cases that it is just a quick comment by someone any author should learn to just ignore that and only look at the constructive feedback that actually could help them even if that feedback is negative. People take time out to write something about a game be it good or bad.
So it all comes down to perspective. If someone writes something about your game, you can either take it, ignore it or learn something from it. But de-bunking every single line someone writes about any game is beside the point, you either take it or you do not.
That being said everyone here has different viewpoints and are in different stages of there lives everyone will react a bit differently on certain subjects i can see roseweav's point that he is bugged by certain comments and i see others folks frustration on how he is dealing with that. But guys we are all here to learn when i got my first couple of negative comments back in the day i let a couple of things rip, hehehe how could anyone say something like this on this game i worked months and months on to complete.
People should not get this angry with roseweave, both side have very good points but i think both sides are also handeling the situation wrong.
To sum it up:
Roseweave you have to learn if someone says something about the game either bad or just totally offensive to let it slide, not all the comments you are going to get will be constructive or positive that is just the way it is you wont be able to stop that, and besides everyone deals with that, de-bunking those posts will only lead to a snowball effect like this topic with lots of people saying lots of bad things.
Everyone, take it from roseweaves side who is just trying to make his game and seeing all these negative ractions because he tried to de-bunk certain comments, and things just really exploded out of hand. Remember we are all different people here handeling things differently we may not have all been exposed yet to the ways constructive feedback or how to handle certain situations.
I'm going to lock this up since some people can't control themselves. And remember if you ever feel a download comment is to out there and to offensive like shab said use the admin alert feature and let us know. Also the download for the demo has been removed in talk with roseweave since he got the comments he needed.
Edited by an Administrator.
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Alot of the people like that have left. I don't think a big discussion needs to spawn from this. I think it should be locked before something erupts, and everyone should just think before they post something that may not be needed or is too spiteful.
Edited by the Author.
Damn offensive if you ask me. 
