Originally Posted by OldManClayton lol hogwash. I think he was talking about Apple policy anyway.
exactly. i wasnt coming from a marketing point of view. obviously theres great advantages, very well written in that blog, by people i respect and support over at the wolfire team. but market and userbase expansion is hardly worth it to me to develop on an entirely new system, especially when said system is so self absorbed, and limited as such in so many ways.
and come to think of it, i wouldnt be surprised if apple went under or switches entirely to digital media if our economy doesnt shape up soon. the only thing they really have going for them is the itunes/ipod/iphone and the appstore.
i read once that "everything microsoft touches becomes hopelessly complicated", yet they have some of the best developer kits for a single system in terms of power. porting is always a pain unless you start out using a crossplatform library, when so much has to be rewritten to support a different system.
Sorry it's just a very silly thing to say, like how a few years ago people would say Nintendo are going to go under for X, Y stupid reasons (despite them always making a profit too). Apple hardware is still the choice for many educational institutions, design and production studios. Until that changes, until they sell off their range of pro apps they won't be going under. Oh and if home sales completely evapourate too.
i pulled nothing out of thin air james. i stated no facts. i had an opinion.
and i dont look at sales, or profits. all that means is that people are paying for something i find unworthy of my money or anyones money. and if i could restate, i "hope" they go under, or switch over entirely to digital.
i have had nothing but bad experience with mac, have heard nothing remotely close to decent customer service, or customer/tech support, they are extremely overpriced (and dont give me they are just as expensive as some high end pc counterparts because those computers are just as expensive and outlandishly priced. i can build computers more powerful for a lot less than a mac), they have a lack of software because of a lack of a large enough userbase.
all the reasons given to develop FOR apple does not outweigh the reasons to NOT in my opinion.
dont get me wrong i hate microsoft just as much as apple for some of the same reasons and reasons completely opposite of those for apple. they have better developing tools though, a larger user and customer base, and support. the lesser of two evils.
i have had nothing but bad experience with mac, have heard nothing remotely close to decent customer service, or customer/tech support, they are extremely overpriced (and dont give me they are just as expensive as some high end pc counterparts because those computers are just as expensive and outlandishly priced. i can build computers more powerful for a lot less than a mac), they have a lack of software because of a lack of a large enough userbase.
Bad customer service? These are people that;
-replace a whole computer if there is a single dead pixel, only Nintendo and 'pro' hardware manufacturers have similar offers.
-if a device fails and needs repairing 3 times then it is replaced with a new equivalent.
-in warranty will even replace a broken product if you broke it on accident (case in point: my brother dropped his iPod and told Apple. was sent a new one, no new box though just a swap in a DHL box.)
Personally I've never had a problem with any of Apple hardware, never a dead pixel or fault. Can't say the same about my homebuilt and Dell computers .
And http://www.itnews.com.au/News/NewsStory.aspx?story=97584
Aaaand they do lack software. Kind of. It's that old Quantity/Quality thing. There isn't a free FTP on Windows as good as Cyberduck on OSX, there isn't a pro photo app as good as Aperture. Photoshop runs better on OSX than Windows. There simply isn't a music software suite as good as Garageband on Windows for £60 (with 5 other apps). Honourable mentions to Logic/Final Cut.
I just think it's a daft thing to tell somebody not to get into iPhone or OSX development when there's clearly a huge market out there that a lot of people are making a lot of money out of.
Apple customer support is poo. (Not that any other is better, but there are still hoops)
And the whole arrogant feel of the retail store really pushes me away. The fact that you need an appointment is REDONKULOUS.
But I don't have an opinion one way or another about developing for it. All the more sales, all the better! I just don't personally like apple's attitudes.
I really can't stand apple anymore, we only ever used the macs at uni for the internet and to mess around on photobooth or w/e. The rest of the animation work was done on the PCs. Itunes is by no means user friendly, way too many options small buttons all over the place and syncing up to my Ipod touch/updating it is a pain in the neck. And I'm sick of the Iphone adverts on TV.
Originally Posted by OldManClayton Apple customer support is poo. (Not that any other is better, but there are still hoops)
By far the best are Dell. At least in the UK.
Apple replacing an accidentally broke £250 iPod is one thing, but replacing a £400 monitor and giving me the newest model is another.
"Personally I've never had a problem with any of Apple hardware, never a dead pixel or fault. Can't say the same about my homebuilt and Dell computers . "
quite the opposite for me and my sisters computers. both got a laptop around the same time. both for about the same price. mine was dell, hers a macbook.
her mac is currently dying and mine is still in tip top shape, 2 years old. and having to get something repaired 3 times to get a new one? thats rediculous. dell sent me a new disc drive overnight after a short troubleshoot. you have to go deal with customer service at an apple store and wait to get it repaired. no thank you. and yes all the stories i've heard include attitude from the customer service workers. dell, although theyre customer support is outsourced and in india and i cant understand anything theyre saying, they have been nothing but polite and done everything they could.
i can understand all the arguments for apple, especially if you own apple stuff, but i strongly disagree.
Originally Posted by Cecil and having to get something repaired 3 times to get a new one? thats ridiculous.
Not really. This also goes back to old machines, they still replace iBooks with newer MacBooks. A friend who does graphics for a record label had his PowerMac G5 break 3 times - got a brand spanking new Mac Pro. As I said before Dell have a similar policy but if the product is too old then you either get a voucher towards a new one or a refurb. So IMO that's kind of above the call of duty.
Was hoping my 2004 Powerbook would give in (though 12" PB's are replaced with 13" Macbooks, not Pro) but it's not aged since I bought it.
Originally Posted by OldManClayton Apple customer support is poo. (Not that any other is better, but there are still hoops)
By far the best are Dell. At least in the UK.
Apple replacing an accidentally broke £250 iPod is one thing, but replacing a £400 monitor and giving me the newest model is another.
Uh, what? Dell are terrible. They advertise custom laptops in custom colours then send an email literally on the day we were expecting it to arrive, saying they dont have enough parts and the order was delayed by two months. Not really good service IMO.
Well, a lot (if not most) of us can fix most everyday problems-- but how many of you would rather fix an ipod screen yourself instead of sending it in for repair or replacement? Same with laptop screens and other finicky hardware. Sure, you can buy a replacement laptop mobo, pry everything apart and put it back together, but if the laptop is new enough to be under warranty, you might as well let the company do it.
Don't get me wrong, I'd much rather do it myself if we were talking about fun factor. I love to take things apart and fix them, but with new things I'd rather have it done "professionally". Less headache and worrying about botching something new you've invested money in. Out of necessity I've fixed many old computers myself, and it's fun since you know that if you don't fix it, it won't get fixed. So if it gets ruined then too bad, it was fun trying!
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(Not that any other is better, but there are still hoops)
All the more sales, all the better! I just don't personally like apple's attitudes. 
Edited by Ricky
Same with laptop screens and other finicky hardware. Sure, you can buy a replacement laptop mobo, pry everything apart and put it back together, but if the laptop is new enough to be under warranty, you might as well let the company do it.