I believe that right now it is a great time for indy game makers. Let's take a look at what game making used to be like and eventually turned into:
Back in the 80s we got a lot of teams that were just TWO mates who spent their time coding, eating pizza and probably drinking Coke/Mountain Dew.
See it was just a few guys who could make a FULL game. That way we got games like Kings Quest or Space Quest.
Anyone could do something!
Nowadays it is big studios. Making a game is way more expensive than making a big hollywood blockbuster. As a single person you can not compete anymore.
But
we are also back at scoring big if it is just YOU and a friend who share the same passion.
I believe with creating games for the iphone, android or even XBox Live/PS3/Wii all you need is an interesting idea and you can go really big.
It is amazing how much power indy game makers suddenly gained. Sure there will be always space for great ideas but I believe cell phone games for example will get more and more advanced again and in the future it will once again be big studios working on titles.
for example super meat boy is getting a lot of love recently. just look at this graphic. it looks SHIT! i believe that more than 80% of the users on the DC could have done this graphic. overall it looks like ANY FLASH ANIMATION i could find on newgrounds. seriously anyone could open up Adobe Flash and fart this graphic out of their ass but it doesn't matter...does it?
no because the game is fun (according to what I have read). it got a nice engine and OK graphics - a lot of people on here could have done this game I believe - graphic and programming wise.
so what the hell are you even trying to say?
well i guess we have a lot of skilled people on here and currently we have a lot of platforms to code for. it will be amazing once clickteam released their exporter for iphone and android. i believe a lot of little companies will be popping up just like mushrooms creating games for phones. a lot of new MMF users - probably more support for clickteam ONCE people find out about those exporters (it's still such an unknown product).
Making money with indie games is all about luck and being involved in the right communities, but there does seem to be a lot of support for indie titles lately.
Most of the indie games that have made it big so far are either mediocre or straight up garbage. Why do people like that awful "IWBTG" trash ?
SMB copied an old gamemaker game called Jumper. They claim to not have copied it which is a humongous lie. Jumper was actually fun and the charm didn't wear off after 20 seconds like it does in super meat boy. They did include jumper as a character though . . . big deal lol. Everything about the game is unoriginal and simple, yet many reviews claim for it to be "one of the best platformers ever." Not in a million years and it still doesn't compare to many games made 10 years ago.
The problem isn't so much the users so much as I believe it could have a lot to do with the software. Trust me, I stick my neck out for MMF2 every chance I get because I truly believe it's a fantastic and underestimated piece of software and the limitations of what it can do are truly up to you, as long as you work. I can't even really think of a good example of something you can't do, without risking someone coming up and saying that they can do it. Not sure how reasonable their method would be, but it's possible. So we have a fantastic piece of software here under our belt.
The problem comes in however, in the result of exporting.
It seems to me as though no matter what we get, theres always going to be some sort of limitation in terms of the final product in terms of efficiency in how it accomplished what it accomplished, even though it managed to accomplish it. Our software though impressive and incredibly flexible, is facing the an issue I informally consider the bandage issue. You basically have something great, and in order to keep it great, you keep bandaging it up and fixing it up, and as a result... the end product becomes more bandages then product and quickly diminishes in quality.
Fortunately though, the foundation for which Multimedia Fusion 2 sits upon, is very logical and very true to real programing in how you manage to get stuff done, which is the single biggest reason it's as flexible as it is, despite how easy it is to use. So it's incredibly simple for anyone capable of establishing a programming language, to actually jump ship and program. MMF2 has primed them up and basically trained them how to talk to a computer and get stuff done (for the most part).
With that said, from the bits and pieces I read in your post, MasterM, I'd have to agree. This is an excellent time for indie gaming, however if you plan to get bigger, you should really consider expanding outside of MMF2 and Clickteam and start considering other options. Indie gaming has kind of forged a sort of big league of it's own, and unfortunately even MMF2 might have a difficult time making it to said big leagues.
Trust me, I hope I'm wrong. I really do, because I can't say I've been too willing for too long to experiment with programing languages outside of working with MMF2, so I hope theres still a chance. But from the looks of things, it seems too easy to do for it not to be done already, if it were truly possible.
You're all right. Software has really helped out with everything. It kind of does urk me that some of the lamer games do really well, although there is tons of garbage indie games out there, as anyone can call themselves an independent. On XBLIG, the highest grossing game of 2009 was I made a game with zombies, which honestly isn't all that bad, but it's nothing special, and that guy has probably made over $150,000 from it, at least by the statistics from 2009, not sure how well it did this year, though I know it's still selling copies, so it might as well be over $200,000. The next game down the list was "Avatar Drop", and the fact that almost just as many people spent money on it pretty much sums up the intelligence level of the Xbox 360 audience. A programmer I worked with made a game based on the "lol cats" website, but eventually had to take it down due to using copy written images, he could've kept it up but he's the lazy cut corners type of programmers, so he didn't pursue the getting the rights option. He made over $3,000 for the few days it was up, to compare, my game, "Sniper Defense" has only made around that much for being on a quarter of a year, which is actually considered to be decent. Another programmer I worked with made 2 games and didn't see anything from it (you have to make at least $150 for Microsoft to pay you anything), which is actually quite a strange anomaly, since most developers actually make at least something for their work. But most of all if you want to sell something on XBLIG, the gameplay has to be simple and familiar, and your title has to be something catchy, and you're pretty much guaranteed to sell a butt load of copies if you paste a picture of a hot girl on the cover (check out Silver Dollar Games). Making money with games does have a lot to do with luck, but it also has to do with catering to your audience, and since most indie developers will do something that they enjoy, most of the time you'll kick out that marketable aspect. Not to say that those types of games can be marketable, or are.
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Originally Posted by SiLVERFIRE The problem isn't so much the users so much as I believe it could have a lot to do with the software. Trust me, I stick my neck out for MMF2 every chance I get because I truly believe it's a fantastic and underestimated piece of software and the limitations of what it can do are truly up to you, as long as you work. I can't even really think of a good example of something you can't do, without risking someone coming up and saying that they can do it. Not sure how reasonable their method would be, but it's possible. So we have a fantastic piece of software here under our belt.
The problem comes in however, in the result of exporting.
It seems to me as though no matter what we get, theres always going to be some sort of limitation in terms of the final product in terms of efficiency in how it accomplished what it accomplished, even though it managed to accomplish it. Our software though impressive and incredibly flexible, is facing the an issue I informally consider the bandage issue. You basically have something great, and in order to keep it great, you keep bandaging it up and fixing it up, and as a result... the end product becomes more bandages then product and quickly diminishes in quality.
Fortunately though, the foundation for which Multimedia Fusion 2 sits upon, is very logical and very true to real programing in how you manage to get stuff done, which is the single biggest reason it's as flexible as it is, despite how easy it is to use. So it's incredibly simple for anyone capable of establishing a programming language, to actually jump ship and program. MMF2 has primed them up and basically trained them how to talk to a computer and get stuff done (for the most part).
With that said, from the bits and pieces I read in your post, MasterM, I'd have to agree. This is an excellent time for indie gaming, however if you plan to get bigger, you should really consider expanding outside of MMF2 and Clickteam and start considering other options. Indie gaming has kind of forged a sort of big league of it's own, and unfortunately even MMF2 might have a difficult time making it to said big leagues.
Trust me, I hope I'm wrong. I really do, because I can't say I've been too willing for too long to experiment with programing languages outside of working with MMF2, so I hope theres still a chance. But from the looks of things, it seems too easy to do for it not to be done already, if it were truly possible.
Pretty much everyone that has switched from MMF2 to programming or a different development tool has stated that you have to be ass-backwards to get anything done in MMF2. =/
I actually fully agree with this thread. Old times are coming BACK in a new way and that is a real GOOD thing. We can actually enjoy our hobby AND make money at the same time, like, REALLY GET FILTHY RICH. Even with total bullshit. Let us consider the following: I perceive, I said, that you are vastly amused at having plunged me into such a hopeless discussion; but now hear the parable, and then you will be still more amused at the meagreness of my imagination: for the manner in which the best men are treated in their own States is so grievous that no single thing on earth is comparable to it; and therefore, if I am to plead their cause, I must have recourse to fiction, and put together a figure made up of many things, like the fabulous unions of goats and stags which are found in pictures. Imagine then a fleet or a ship in which there is a captain who is taller and stronger than any of the crew, but he is a little deaf and has a similar infirmity in sight, and his knowledge of navigation is not much better. The sailors are quarrelling with one another about the steering --every one is of opinion that he has a right to steer, though he has never learned the art of navigation and cannot tell who taught him or when he learned, and will further assert that it cannot be taught, and they are ready to cut in pieces any one who says the contrary. They throng about the captain, begging and praying him to commit the helm to them; and if at any time they do not prevail, but others are preferred to them, they kill the others or throw them overboard, and having first chained up the noble captain's senses with drink or some narcotic drug, they mutiny and take possession of the ship and make free with the stores; thus, eating and drinking, they proceed on their voyage in such a manner as might be expected of them. Him who is their partisan and cleverly aids them in their plot for getting the ship out of the captain's hands into their own whether by force or persuasion, they compliment with the name of sailor, pilot, able seaman, and abuse the other sort of man, whom they call a good-for-nothing; but that the true pilot must pay attention to the year and seasons and sky and stars and winds, and whatever else belongs to his art, if he intends to be really qualified for the command of a ship, and that he must and will be the steerer, whether other people like or not-the possibility of this union of authority with the steerer's art has never seriously entered into their thoughts or been made part of their calling. Now in vessels which are in a state of mutiny and by sailors who are mutineers, how will the true pilot be regarded? Will he not be called by them a prater, a star-gazer, a good-for-nothing? That said, let us make some great crappy indie games and make money with it!
Awesome thread, and one that I fully agree with (so far).
It's a good time to be an MMF user. Once the iPhone (and maybe XNA) runtimes are released, I think Klik gaming is going to explode through the roof and Clickteam finally gets the sales and publicity it so fully deserves.
I could not agree more with this thread, and Hayo's point in particular. Many times I have contemplated retiring from my profits from the click world. Unfortunately my total net earnings are as follows:
Net assets (approximate TGF and MMF2 cost) (150).
Labour @ 12 pounds ph
8 hours per week x 52 weeks x 10 years = (49,920)
Total sales 0
Total net income (50,070)
n.b all units are pounds.
In balance sheets a negative number is shown in brackets, not sure why. National Liberal would be so proud of such a discussion, involving business and the alike.
I could not help but think that Hayo's point about "fabulous unions of goats and stags which are found in pictures" is of particular importance in this day and age of game making. Many times we forget that we are indeed goats or stags and get caught up in hum drum of farting out games (or faecal matter for that matter) that we forget the bigger picture.
The bigger picture is that this is Chewbbaca :
Chewbacca is a Wookiee from the planet Kashyyyk. But Chewbacca lives on the planet Endor. Now think about it; that does not make sense!
SMB copied an old gamemaker game called Jumper. They claim to not have copied it which is a humongous lie. Jumper was actually fun and the charm didn't wear off after 20 seconds like it does in super meat boy.
I dont think SMB gets old in 20 seconds. The problem with games now is that pretty much every style has been done. If you make a platformer shooter it'll automatically be labeled as a "Cave Story/Metroid Remake". Im sure that jumper isnt the only game out there with the same type of gameplay as Super Meat Boy, it could have copied off of something else.
SMB copied an old gamemaker game called Jumper. They claim to not have copied it which is a humongous lie. Jumper was actually fun and the charm didn't wear off after 20 seconds like it does in super meat boy.
I dont think SMB gets old in 20 seconds. The problem with games now is that pretty much every style has been done. If you make a platformer shooter it'll automatically be labeled as a "Cave Story/Metroid Remake". Im sure that jumper isnt the only game out there with the same type of gameplay as Super Meat Boy, it could have copied off of something else.
Jumper may not have started the trend (i'm not sure), but SMB was definitely heavily (cannot express this enough) influenced by it.
SMB copied an old gamemaker game called Jumper. They claim to not have copied it which is a humongous lie. Jumper was actually fun and the charm didn't wear off after 20 seconds like it does in super meat boy.
I dont think SMB gets old in 20 seconds. The problem with games now is that pretty much every style has been done. If you make a platformer shooter it'll automatically be labeled as a "Cave Story/Metroid Remake". Im sure that jumper isnt the only game out there with the same type of gameplay as Super Meat Boy, it could have copied off of something else.
Jumper may not have started the trend (i'm not sure), but SMB was definitely heavily (cannot express this enough) influenced by it.
Jumper's engine didn't suck, unlike SMB's.
Discarded pizza boxes are an indispensable source of cheese.
SMB copied an old gamemaker game called Jumper. They claim to not have copied it which is a humongous lie. Jumper was actually fun and the charm didn't wear off after 20 seconds like it does in super meat boy.
I dont think SMB gets old in 20 seconds. The problem with games now is that pretty much every style has been done. If you make a platformer shooter it'll automatically be labeled as a "Cave Story/Metroid Remake". Im sure that jumper isnt the only game out there with the same type of gameplay as Super Meat Boy, it could have copied off of something else.
Jumper may not have started the trend (i'm not sure), but SMB was definitely heavily (cannot express this enough) influenced by it.
Jumper's engine didn't suck, unlike SMB's.
I hear it works perfectly fine in the superior Steam version.
"for example super meat boy is getting a lot of love recently. just look at this graphic. it looks SHIT! i believe that more than 80% of the users on the DC could have done this graphic. overall it looks like ANY FLASH ANIMATION i could find on newgrounds. seriously anyone could open up Adobe Flash and fart this graphic out of their ass but it doesn't matter...does it?"
To be fair, the original Meat Boy game was in fact a Flash game on Newgrounds.
"so what the hell are you even trying to say?
well i guess we have a lot of skilled people on here and currently we have a lot of platforms to code for. it will be amazing once clickteam released their exporter for iphone and android. i believe a lot of little companies will be popping up just like mushrooms creating games for phones. a lot of new MMF users - probably more support for clickteam ONCE people find out about those exporters (it's still such an unknown product)."
@MasterM:
I think overall, you know what you're talking about. The only thing I can disagree with has a lot to do with the above quote. There are a lot of skilled people, we do have a lot of platforms, but with Clickteam? MMF will not pave the way for awesome indie games, not the way you seem to be talking about anyways; More on this in just a bit, but first another quote!
"But we are also back at scoring big if it is just YOU and a friend who share the same passion."
MMF is not well-suited for group projects. It's possible, I'm sure, but tedious to work around. Which wraps up with what I said in the previous paragraph: MMF will not not pave the way for awesome indie games, unless only one person is working on the game with MMF.
@Circy:
I highly doubt there will ever be an XNA runtime. XNA, and all the tools you need to make something with XNA, are free. It's free (as in, no royalties or splash screens required) to publish your XNA games for PC, too. I'll also argue that it's hundreds of times easier to create any given game in XNA than it is to create it with MMF2.
Now, if you're talking about an XNA runtime to publish for XBLIG... Yeah, there's an even slimmer chance of that happening. For a game to be sold on XBLIG, it has to undergo peer review. If a game fails peer review, then it won't be published, though the developer can fix the game and resubmit later. Here's a short list of ways a game can be failed:
• It uses copyrighted content. Fan games? None of those. Games with ripped sprites? Not gonna happen. Music from another game? Haha, fat chance.
• Strong sexual content. Full nudity or [gratuitous] partial nudity, sexual acts, or anything that would get a game rated M for Mature (or higher) will be failed.
• Excretion; If it isn't vomit, then the game will be failed for it. That means urine and feces, basically.
• Distasteful violence is a no-no too. That means genocide, torture, and mutilation are all great ways to have a game failed. Dismemberment and excessive blood/gore may also qualify for a fail.
• If the game crashes or hangs anywhere, including obscure situations, then the game will be failed. Most failings of this nature, should an XNA runtime somehow be released, will likely result from Clickteam's exporter for it than anything.
• If a game can only be played using one controller (player 1 on the console), then the game will be failed. How many people do you think will bother testing for this before exporting it? Fails galore, I'll bet.
• If the game is made without regard to the title safe area, you bet that's a fail. (If someone doesn't know what that means, here's Wikipedia to the rescue: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safe_area )
...and then this last one is my favorite:
• If the trial mode doesn't show off the actual game or is abused to release a game for free, then FAIL.
What I'm basically getting at, is that for a game to pass peer review the person making the game generally has to know what they're doing. To that end, I question why not just skip the middleman and develop using XNA directly? It's a hell of a lot more straightforward than using MMF.
Originally Posted by GamesterXIII The physics are really dumb in SMB.
Jumper did have a much better engine and more creative levels.
I own both the Xbox 360 version of Super Meat Boy and the Steam version, and both play great, both have tight controls and good physics, and both have interesting and varied level designs (seeing as they're the same game.) In my opinion, that is. Also, in case anyone is basing their opinions on the flash game, know that Super Meat Boy improves upon that game dramatically, to the point that I have major trouble playing the original. Also, Jumper was too slow a game for me in terms of how fast Ogmo moved.
But first off, that is all opinion.
Second, this isn't a Super Meat Boy thread so stop talking about it here.
Just become an electrician. You'll earn a bomb in today's economy (in the UK anyway) and learn the techniques you need to kit your car out with MMF-controlled products. Way better.
E.g. Get vista or windows 7 laptop, disconnect screen and bury it into dashboard at an angle, house laptop base under passenger seat, program an interface in MMF2 which displays the screen in mirror-image, and hook the machine up to the various different parts of the car. Then voila! You have a heads-up display on your windscreen (reflected from the screen inside the dash), and you can voice-control your car. Much more satisfying!
It's true that things have been improving a lot in recent times, with new platforms engines and tools being opened up to the small developer.
The main problem with the indie scene however is that it's still a massive circle-jerk and that's something that will not change any time soon.
You're either involved with the scene by going to conventions, being a regular poster in certain forums and so on or your chances are cut down by about 90%.
Getting the indie scene's approval ends up having a chain reaction with the outside press (as in, mainstream gaming press) starting to look at what your game. Sometimes even hitting extremes like giving some incredibly high scores when reviewing and so on. I've seen games like VVVVVV, Super meat boy and Cave Story Wii for example getting constant rankings above 90% in places like gamespot, ign and so on.
Not that these games are bad, Super meat boy is a good game for 15$ but overrated to death (for example, gamespot gave the game 95% which is astounding to say the least), VVVVVV is a blatant case of what I described above about the indie scene (the creator is a TIGS editor and the game is little more than a flash game with a generic gameplay gimmick used for the entire game) and Cave Story was completely broken at the time of the release, and coupled with several very questionable design decisions (such as having all the game modes unlocked at the beginning, spoiling the story if you play them).
These are only a few cases but there are many more.
The industry has also been moving in a direction I don't like much.
The current trend is to make small and generic flash (specially for facebook), and iphone games for easy money, I miss the times when people put years of work in a game.
Hopefully this will change, and I'm confident it will because some day those markets will be so clustered there will be no more money to be made ouf of them and those developers will be forced to change.
Originally Posted by GamesterXIII Making money with indie games is all about luck and being involved in the right communities, but there does seem to be a lot of support for indie titles lately.
Most of the indie games that have made it big so far are either mediocre or straight up garbage. Why do people like that awful "IWBTG" trash ?
SMB copied an old gamemaker game called Jumper. They claim to not have copied it which is a humongous lie. Jumper was actually fun and the charm didn't wear off after 20 seconds like it does in super meat boy. They did include jumper as a character though . . . big deal lol. Everything about the game is unoriginal and simple, yet many reviews claim for it to be "one of the best platformers ever." Not in a million years and it still doesn't compare to many games made 10 years ago.
@GamesterXIII:
Why do people like that awful "IWBTG" trash ?
I wanna be the guy is utter crap and I hate it but the reason why people like it is quite simple I believe. In fact there is a lot of "popular" stuff that's utter crap.
This is how I see it (and that's sadly the way it is): Do an awesome game with your original character and people won't care too much (in most cases). Just replace your sprite with Bart Simpsons, Sonic or any other famous character and BAM you've got a hit on your hands- popular character so people will check out your game and then your game is even coded well so yeh a winner is you.
But here is the catch: Do a crap game with a popular character and chances are good people will still care just because they like that character. They will ignore the awful engine.
I wanna be the boy
2d left 4 dead
or the Christmas Mega Man Flash game I have posted recently are just some examples
(and there is some upcoming 2d Alan Wake / Halo- so just get out one of your old games and replace your graphics so it will look like a popular title)
I wanna be the boy gets the attention because of 1) OMFG hardest game ever 2) haha mega man sprite
also according to what I have been told the guy who made I wanna be the boy is an utter prick. claiming his game is one of the best games EVER and if anyone dares to talk bad about it he will reply to it and tell that person to fuck off- how nice
Also I don't get the super meat boy hype either. I just hate how unoriginal the in game graphics are and how shit OH LOOK I JUST TRIED OUT FLASH the cutscene graphics are.
thinking about it now I believe MMF needs A LOT OF extensions for iphone / android.
you could probably code some useful software for mobile devices if you could access the adress book / browser / camera (Augmented reality - its gonna be so big) / gps
MMF REALLY needs some direction sensor plug in for mobile phones so you can code stuff like Doodle Jump.
Originally Posted by Hayo So yeah these are really exciting times, with all the crappy games and asshole game creators.
Well Hayo I think I've to disagree with you.
While "I wanna be the boy" isn't a too good game and it's creator doesn't seem to be too nice you have to keep in mind not everyone is like this. There are a bunch of expectations. Also "I wanna be the boy" is a freeware game.
There are quite some GREAT indy games which have commercial success.
Here is a list of good games:
First of all I want to start with Angry Birds. There is probably no iphone owner who has not heard of this title. It's one of the most successful iphone games (probably even THE most successful iphone game).
I should also point out the Android version is completly FREE and makes a lot of money with banner ads.
+++++++++++
Then we have got Doodle Jump for android / iOS. This game is so simple yet so addictive and fun. The Youtube video looks really dull and boring but you should give this game a try if you have not played it before / one of the millions of clones it got (you have to tilt your phone).
++++++++++
Now Limbo is probably the best indy game of the year. Get it for Xbox.
by now I am really to lazy to post more GREAT indy games but there are a bunch (braid, gish, stuff by derek yu you haven't even heard of...)
I bet these so called game creators have goatee's and or beards. Got to be careful of the bearded peril.
This site has become wayyyyyy to serious. It has took ages for anyone to reply to my time travelling tale of love, stamps, bowel movements, fried chickens and coke
@aphant: thanks a lot for all the insight on developing for the xbox. i have to admit i hadn't heard of clickteam to work on an exporter for the xbox anyways. thats news to me
###############
This brings me to one point. If you submit your game to apple for the iphone they will CHECK it also and they will look AT THE LINES OF YOUR CODE.
I have heard of people whose game got rejected because of just three lines of code. Now get this LINES OF CODE.
If you make your game in MMF you can not send APPLE your *.mfa file and be like "oh look at my code" - so to be honest I can not imagine clickteam writing an exporter for iphone. or if there is one apple will just say NO!
############
@ Johnny Look: "The current trend is to make small and generic flash (specially for facebook), and iphone games for easy money, I miss the times when people put years of work in a game."
This is a double edged sword. I don't like all those face book games too much and you are right people should invest more time in making the games but then on the other hand your phone is just a portable device. It isn't your PC or console which is just made for gaming. You get it out and play a few rounds of a game to kill a few MINUTES so I do not think that a big killer game is appropriate for mobile devices. It's just little games like angry birds / doodle jump.
If you want big games for the hardcore gamer you should get a psp/psp2.
Yeah, the XNA runtime is news to me, too. I can't claim to know why anyone would want it, considering how user-friendly XNA is, but I do look forward to hearing many, many stories about rejected XBLIG games.
Originally Posted by aphant Yeah, the XNA runtime is news to me, too. I can't claim to know why anyone would want it, considering how user-friendly XNA is, but I do look forward to hearing many, many stories about rejected XBLIG games.
haha
at least microsoft arent nazis like apple who reject anything
i only see a future for android games but then we might as well run our Flash games on android (ive tried that and it works great if only my games didn't use a keyboard haha)
Pssh.. all this talk about how we could make games. Let's go and make some
Big studios really aren't that undefeatable any more. Even my casual gamer friends say that games these days aren't very much fun. Many of them head off to Newgrounds just because it's more fun. There's all this game design, but not a lot of fun games coming out of them.
Disclaimer: Any sarcasm in my posts will not be mentioned as that would ruin the purpose. It is assumed that the reader is intelligent enough to tell the difference between what is sarcasm and what is not.
Originally Posted by aphant Yeah, the XNA runtime is news to me, too. I can't claim to know why anyone would want it, considering how user-friendly XNA is, but I do look forward to hearing many, many stories about rejected XBLIG games.
Really? I rarely hear of anyone getting rejected for XBLIG, XBLA on the other hand...
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Well, like I said before: If your game crashes, it will be rejected. You'll have to fix the crash and resubmit; Your game isn't banned from resubmission, just that build will be rejected. If you can't fix the crash because it's a problem with Clickteam's exporter (which I expect will be the case), then you're screwed.
Another facet of XBLIG rarely being rejected is because most of them are either really simple or 2D.
Originally Posted by aphant Well, like I said before: If your game crashes, it will be rejected. You'll have to fix the crash and resubmit; Your game isn't banned from resubmission, just that build will be rejected. If you can't fix the crash because it's a problem with Clickteam's exporter (which I expect will be the case), then you're screwed.
Another facet of XBLIG rarely being rejected is because most of them are either really simple or 2D.
That is very true. But other than crashing, your game has to be REALLY bad to be rejected.
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Edited by GamesterXIII
CKING CALL IT SMB, Super Mario Bros owns that!
.
Here is a list of good games: 
