I recently voted for Hayo's desktop in the competition Poll as I have a liking for his fishhead series and would have enjoyed to see him win. However, due to unforeseen circumstances, his name seems to have been torn from the list leaving my vote completely wasted.
I would like my vote back so I can vote for someone else please, otherwise my vote along with many others (Hayo was winning) has been wasted, and its not really a fair competition.
I want my vote back too on the count of vote rigging. For shame whoever did this, yet another display of bad anonymous tactics. For shame.
Is anyone going to own up? Or will it be the usual answers? And admins wonder why the community is on egde! Also Hayo should have his votes he already had back (11) but what is there to say none of the other votes have been massaged - my confidence in this site is dropping again...
@Duncan: a vote is a vote, people can spend it how they wish
Fishhead themed? Wasn't it actually a map from one of the levels from his upcoming game? But a vote spend is a vote spend I guess, perhaps Hayo will magically appear as winner after all.
Originally Posted by Jenswa Fishhead themed? Wasn't it actually a map from one of the levels from his upcoming game? But a vote spend is a vote spend I guess, perhaps Hayo will magically appear as winner after all.
Originally Posted by Oddball Hagar And admins wonder why the community is on egde!
For the record, the majority of us don't wonder that. We discuss it a lot in the admin forums, most of us at least.
Admin's are supposed to show the way by example which I must say most of you do! . I just feel someone is upto shenanigans, and it's really getting quite depressing. Respect works both ways.
To be frank I don't care much about winning this, but I DO care about all the fishy things going on around here lately. I have loved this community for 9 years, but one single person is completely spoiling it. I would have been much more respectful in the last few years if this wasn't the case.
I remember a few years back everything I posted was getting deleted. Every admin I complained to shrugged their shoulders and said "wasn't me". You guys really need to get a tracking system, if not to be accountable to us, at least to each other.
Bloody heck, didn't notice hayo's votes had vanished! Can't say i want my vote back or to vote again, i would prefer we gave Hayo his (11, is it?) votes back.
Just wondering if there is going to be any action taking against the perpetrator of this deed?
Things need to change, this is not confidence/happyness inducing admin behaviour. As someone who genuinely likes this site and has been here a long time, I am currently VERY disgruntled.
Originally Posted by Hayo But wasn't that how Dogzer got deleted?
No... in that hypothetical it was a user mistake. I didn't say the phone did it, I said that, for examples, in catching a falling phone or the browser not staying zoomed in or the touchscreen being inaccurate, the user either clicks the wrong link or clicks a link accidentally.
I am just going to give my opinion straight to the point, pulling no punches.
I think these shenanigans are all one person, and if this is correct you need to rein this person in and give them a good kick up the backside, either that or ask them to resign. This is not admin type behaviour, and in my honest opinion whoever is doing this has no place in being an admin.
Yesterday I sent the person who I suspect of all this (unless there is a hacker who hates Dogzer, Hagar and me)to talk about this in a grown-up fashion, this is just a shame. If I don't get a reply I will have to solve this in my regular childish way
Originally Posted by Hayo Yesterday I sent the person who I suspect of all this (unless there is a hacker who hates Dogzer, Hagar and me)to talk about this in a grown-up fashion, this is just a shame. If I don't get a reply I will have to solve this in my regular childish way
Edited by Phredreeke
- Ok, you must admit that was the most creative cussing this site have ever seen -
Originally Posted by chrilley So technically one guy could remove all content from TDC and no one would know who did it? How did such a gigantic loophole get through? Sewiously.
Technically the loophole will still exist after the log is instated because there will still be people with direct access to the database that wouldn't have to use the site if they didn't want to.
Originally Posted by chrilley So technically one guy could remove all content from TDC and no one would know who did it? How did such a gigantic loophole get through? Sewiously.
Technically the loophole will still exist after the log is instated because there will still be people with direct access to the database that wouldn't have to use the site if they didn't want to.
I'm not talking about the logs. Moderators shouldn't be able to alone decide the deletion of content such as games and projects, but request the idea for all admins/moderators to decide together if it is to be removed. But yeah, the log is a must have and I am amazed no one has even thought of this even after all these years.
As for the database thing I don't know much about but; We do have some kind of encryption for it don't we? And back-ups in case someone were to remove it? It seems so standard today that you must always back up your server files, keep logs, encrypt information etc. If I'm misguided I'd love for someone to enlighten me on this
Originally Posted by chrilley I'm not talking about the logs. Moderators shouldn't be able to alone decide the deletion of content such as games and projects, but request the idea for all admins/moderators to decide together if it is to be removed. But yeah, the log is a must have and I am amazed no one has even thought of this even after all these years.
Well, that doesn't work if a moderator needs to take down something ASAP. For example if someone posts a project with a goatse picture in it.
- Ok, you must admit that was the most creative cussing this site have ever seen -
Originally Posted by chrilley I'm not talking about the logs. Moderators shouldn't be able to alone decide the deletion of content such as games and projects, but request the idea for all admins/moderators to decide together if it is to be removed. But yeah, the log is a must have and I am amazed no one has even thought of this even after all these years.
Well, that doesn't work if a moderator needs to take down something ASAP. For example if someone posts a project with a goatse picture in it.
Allow moderators(or admins I really don't see the difference on this site) to censor things temporarily until proper action can be taken? "This entry was censored by Captain DonkieFace, Reason: "Pirate be posting nasty content! Y'arrr.""
This way you can easily revert it if the judgment was faulty, or proceed to remove the content if majority of admins agree.
Team decisions take much longer to make - especially as there will be disagreements and such. The best way in my opinion is to allow admins to delete things, but when they're deleted they're still recoverable. That way people can appeal against decisions and such, and things can be restored easily if the admin team decides it shouldn't have been deleted.
Some sort of structure would be helpful too. In other communities I've been apart of the moderation team, there is a "head moderator" who sort of looks over what the other moderators are doing. That way if someone steps out of line, the head moderator can do something about it. Of course, you still have to ensure the head moderator knows what they're doing.
In this case, none of us have any authority over each other. If an admin steps out of line, who decides what should be done? The structure of the admin team has been the same for ten years, and in my opinion it needs to change. But that decision isn't up to me.
However, it does have a lot to do with not replying to constructive messages, making people pissed off by going around deleting and locking things, not using punctuation in news posts and so on.
No humping way. I have been admin/mod on 3 click community sites in the last 10 years, and basically I am a bigger nazi than rikus and shadowcaster together. But at least I am conscious about that.
Originally Posted by Hayo No humping way. I have been admin/mod on 3 click community sites in the last 10 years, and basically I am a bigger nazi than rikus and shadowcaster together. But at least I am conscious about that.
Well, to sum it up
- Dogzer got lost
- Hagars thread lock thread got locked
- I got lost in the Desktop compo poll
- The Dogzer poll got lost
- Admins run around with android phones in their pockets
- Old and grumpy members got even grumpier
Originally Posted by Hayo Well, to sum it up
- Dogzer got lost
- Hagars thread lock thread got locked
- I got lost in the Desktop compo poll
- The Dogzer poll got lost
- Admins run around with android phones in their pockets
- Old and grumpy members got even grumpier
monkeythreat said he deleted the poll himself if I remembr correctly, and since you all seem to think the phone idea is too absurd for words, how about we just forget all about it?
Clearly the admins would like to forget because no one is being honest and they've been put in an awkward situation they can't or don't want to deal with.
We are looking ways to make sure this doesn't happen again. A logging system will definitely be implemented in the new TDC, not 100% sure about the current site as from what I understand the code is a bit messy and will take forever to put in. We are also looking at new and improved guidelines for the admins to follow. I missed what happened over the weekend regarding the poll deletion, but something does indeed smell fishy.
Originally Posted by -Adam- Clearly the admins would like to forget because no one is being honest and they've been put in an awkward situation they can't or don't want to deal with.
Only some admins wish to forget. one would like to address the issue to varying degrees. As it stands, we can't do anything to any one particular admin because it has not been revealed who has done these thing, and without a log we otherwise have no evidence as to who did anything. Some measures had been taken to temporarily curtail further mischief but some admins disagreed with the measures, so we're kinda back to square one.
Originally Posted by -Adam- Clearly the admins would like to forget because no one is being honest and they've been put in an awkward situation they can't or don't want to deal with.
Only some admins wish to forget. one would like to address the issue to varying degrees. As it stands, we can't do anything to any one particular admin because it has not been revealed who has done these thing, and without a log we otherwise have no evidence as to who did anything. Some measures had been taken to temporarily curtail further mischief but some admins disagreed with the measures, so we're kinda back to square one.
I thought the biscuit and beverage discussion is doing quite well, and is truely fascinating!
I really do not see how any admin could be against some of the suggestions put forward. It makes no sense, it is better for everyone involved... I am dissapointed.
Originally Posted by Jon Lambert Some measures had been taken to temporarily curtail further mischief but some admins disagreed with the measures, so we're kinda back to square one.
Those admins should just deal with it. Deciding by committee is just a dumb idea.
I don't recall any of the admins opposing the log or the "rubbish bin" idea (Something that I think should take priority over the new TDC--Flava's looking into a version for the "old" TDC). Jon was referring to what we should do in the interim, which pretty much came down to whether any one admin could lay down rules. I don't even think anyone disagreed with the rules. It was more of a concern about acting alone versus acting together, which seems to be the root of this problem.
The admin forums have been more active than they have in a long time just trying to figure this out, so don't think it's not being taken seriously.
The issues happing lately on tdc here does make tdc itself a more transparent community. I don't think I need to convince anyone of that fact or transparency in general is a good thing.
Now about that anarchy thing, I like it. I let it rule in my classroom all the time, but not everyone likes it. You could try the anarchy model with light moderating power for users, like used on other fora around the internet. Most of the times it has been worked out as some kind of voting system for users over the topics, replies and other stuff added in the past.
One other idea is general election every four years A general admin election could be a good thing, but four years is an awful lot of time in internetland.
Originally Posted by Jon Lambert Some measures had been taken to temporarily curtail further mischief but some admins disagreed with the measures, so we're kinda back to square one.
Those admins should just deal with it. Deciding by committee is just a dumb idea.
The system I have proposed is NOT a comittee system in normal use, and would allow the admins to do their daily jobs without any hinderance. Any admin would have the power to blank content from joe public (into a recycle bin if you prefer it being called that ), and if there is no appeals it would get deleted after a set period of time. A comittee type system for every decision would be retarded, due to the increased latency of enforcing moderation.
The only time content could be deleted before this timeout would be with the appoval of multiple admins, and the only time this would happen in my opinion is when shenanigans are occuring. I do know some sites I visit use this type of system so it is not retarded.
Glad to hear things are happening anyway OMC and Flava and Jon, but still it makes me wonder why an admin would oppose these temporary measures whilst waiting for TDC2 or modifications to the current site...
Originally Posted by OldManClayton I don't even think anyone disagreed with the rules. It was more of a concern about acting alone versus acting together, which seems to be the root of this problem.
Originally Posted by Jon Lambert Originally Posted by -Adam- Some measures had been taken to temporarily curtail further mischief but some admins disagreed with the measures, so we're kinda back to square one.
I think there wouldn't be dissent if the culprit(s?) just fessed up. What's the worst that's going to happen? They'll just lose the priviledge they abused or misused.
Until such a time, maybe all admins should be stripped of their position. That would clear up future mishaps right quick.
Originally Posted by aphant I think there wouldn't be dissent if the culprit(s?) just fessed up. What's the worst that's going to happen? They'll just lose the priviledge they abused or misused.
Until such a time, maybe all admins should be stripped of their position. That would clear up future mishaps right quick.
Haha, anarchy for the win!
Who would take over though? I would only trust people with suitably rugged beards. Seriously though I would have a lot more love for this site if someone did fess up... regardless of if any action was taken.
I guess we will never know. **Looks up to the sky, whilst breaking wind** and utters "The truth is out there!"
Irrelevant. There is some foulplay afoot and every admin is a suspect. Therefore the only logical thing to do is to revoke that priviledge from everyone that doesn't actually own/maintain the site. Or the culprit(s) could step forward and stop being a coward, but that's not going to happen. I mean, come on. What is more important? A little bit of distrust from the community, or a personal loss of an abused/misused priviledge? Obviously, maintaining power is more important. Wouldn't want to be (or perhaps go back) one of us clueless peons, now would they?
What would that oversight be? That the person responsible could very well be Rikus or Clubsoft? That's not an oversight. There must always be an admin, due to the simple nature of how hosted websites work. Absolutely removing admins would just be a dumb idea.
Is that oversight? I don't think so. Besides, if it does turn out to be Rikus or Club, then we as a community would have to ask ourselves if we really want to be part of this site anymore.
You're saying that TDC could have every single one of it's admins be replaced? And neither Club nor Rikus would be able to, being root, reinstate their admin rank? I highly doubt it.
Simple solution to the deletion of posts: create a new CSS class in the theme( .hidethiskthxbai{display: none;} ) and just surround the objectable post content with a <div class="hidethiskthxbai" tag. People could still open up firebug or something and see the post, but they wouldn't be able to complain about it since it was already hidden, and the community would know that the mods/admins are doing their job.
Have you even been far as decided to use even go want to do look more like?
I honestly don't know what's going on with all the strange stuff that's going on with TDC at the mo (deletions and what-not), however i have to say i don't really "care" (couldn't find a better word, tbh) and i still keep an open mind since there still is no real evidence to point to any of the conclusions people have already come to. I've reflected on how the events over the past couple of weeks on TDC have affected my life and i can honestly conclude that they've had this much affect:
You've only lingered around here since 2008.I guess being long time members its had a greater affect on Hagar and Hayo. That, and the fact that they've had to put up with other things like Gamester getting away with crap and nothing being done about it before hand.
Pretty much. I have been part of the click community since 2000 and I do care about it. It has been part of my life since I was 16. Also our conclusions don't come out of thin air.
You are right, i have only "lingered" (can't say i've been lingering, i've been a fairly active member) since 2008 and Hayo and Hagar have been here alot longer than me. And yes, i've disagreed with Gamester's opinion more times than i care to mention/remember. I just can't see how this affects my life though.
Really though guys, it IS possible this could be the work of a naughter hacker - why couldn't this be the work of another Gary McKinnon, for example?
Marko, clicking is a hobby of mine and I think it always will be. My day to day life is completey independant of it mind .
You must remember myself and Hayo (and a few others) have been in the community for a very long time - we used to be on Iklik-it.com before TDC existed. A few of us oldies can remember when these type of things was very common on here, and I do know some of the older members left for that very reason, back in those days everyone suspected ShadowCaster, but he was long gone before you even joined.
Back then I know there would have been a LOT more of a kafuffle if these type of things went on. My only reason for protesting against these things is that some of the oldies I still keep in touch with refuse to participate on here, even though they still make games.
Just think about it, just as an example we have lost quite a few members to the CT site that used to be active on here. I think that's a shame, and there is a reason why.
I can't doubt that and have absolutely no reason to (about the members moving on). The whole situation is very damaging to the community, again i can't argue with that. It's my hobby too and i know when/how to seperate my hobby with the most important things in my life. Everyone is different though and i know it means a hell of alot more to some than others on TDC, all i was doing was posting my opinions and adding some balance to the whole shebang.
Ironically, despite all our different points of views, we are all memebers for the exact same reason - our enjoyment and passion for making games!
Originally Posted by -Adam- You've only lingered around here since 2008.I guess being long time members its had a greater affect on Hagar and Hayo. That, and the fact that they've had to put up with other things like Gamester getting away with crap and nothing being done about it before hand.
I just called out a douche and a bunch of people had a fit. I don't really post my feelings about the website/community anymore, but I may express them if the topic comes up. Thats kind of the reason I really never posted in the past. . . and why nobody saw me
I share the same Mindset as Marko - or at least a similar one. Its a choice to make me your problem.
I would say that I couldn't have a major negative impact on the status of this website/community if I tried. I'll just stick to being a dick to dicks on the occasion. If some small company or person that uses click products "quits" game design and some prick makes fun of them again because they were intimidated by them, or for whatever reason, directly or indirectly, I believe we may see a scenario similar to what took place before - That is if everyone that contributed before does so in the same fashion.
Aww Just when I was starting to warm to you Clyde Frog.
I do not have a problem with you personally, but sometimes you do post deliberate flame bait (something you have just admitted to doing), and then wonder why people get annoyed at you. You also often cuss other peoples games yet you have even less to show for yourself than I do (I did release some demos and the odd game a long time ago), and that is what really urks some people.
I try to refrain from posting on other peoples games for the most part for obvious reasons . I rarely look at the comment pages on them. If you're referring to what went on in the BB thread it was aimed towards one person for being a douche. I was sort of defending BB in my own way.
I don't remember cussing other peoples games except for that one over in that thread. No names stated directly. Oh yeah and I accused one guy of blatantly stealing sounds and claiming them his own because I'm pretty much 100% sure he did, but I decided to leave that alone. Other than that I don't recall any other occasions off the top of my head.
Originally Posted by GamesterXIII I try to refrain from posting on other peoples games for the most part for obvious reasons . I rarely look at the comment pages on them. If you're referring to what went on in the BB thread it was aimed towards one person for being a douche. I was sort of defending BB in my own way.
I don't remember cussing other peoples games except for that one over in that thread. No names stated directly. Oh yeah and I accused one guy of blatantly stealing sounds and claiming them his own because I'm pretty much 100% sure he did, but I decided to leave that alone. Other than that I don't recall any other occasions off the top of my head.
To be fair he wasn't actually being a douche, you were just being a b*tch and finding the excuse to attack.
* Edited by Rikus to remove the letter I in b*tch..
Originally Posted by Rikus So on the one hand we have Gamester writing a good and polite reply, and then on the Other side we got Adams response by refering to him as a B*tch.
Now who needs a lesson in growing up?
You?
And don't BS about Gamester being good and polite, he's gotten away with more crap or just about as much as Phizzy ever did on here. Infact, he's been more blunt and offensive than Phizzy ever was. I don't recall Phizzy publicly telling people their games are crap. And I love how you're backing up Gamester calling someone a douche. Perhaps do your research and really see who the "douche" was in the thread he's talking about, instead of making pathetic swipes with no backup or knowledge of what the hell you're babbling on about.
No Rikus. You're ignoring all the negativity (valid points about you) from other people today, and making attacks at my minor comments (which point out Gamester had no right to attack someone because he thought they were a douche).
If you think there's some kind of vast difference between calling someone a B*tch (not really swearing compared to some of the users on this site, but you probably miss all of that) and calling someone a douche, then perhaps you need to scrub up on your English language a little more.
Pst. A douche is a device used to introduce a stream of water into the body for medical or hygienic reasons, or the stream of water itself. - Douche bag, or simply douche, is considered to be a pejorative term. The slang usage of the term originated in the 1960s. The term usually refers to a person, usually male, with a variety of negative qualities, specifically arrogance and engaging in obnoxious and/or irritating actions, most often without malicious intent.
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Haha, first manipulative and now devious? Id like to know how Im manipulative and devious, you still haven't explained? Perhaps like douche, they are terms you need to google too?
People know who I am. They know what I can be like. But your true colours are emerging and people are starting to stand up to you or question your decisions. You can't deal with it, so you're trying to turn this around and focus the attention on me from one valid comment I make, rather than your own foolish mistakes and discuss other people's comments with them like an adult.
And congrats, you still didn't say why Im devious or manipulative.
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Edited by OMC
jenswa.neocities.org
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. I just feel someone is upto shenanigans, and it's really getting quite depressing. Respect works both ways.
