I was aware of all the attempts of humor. I lol'ed at comments I thought were funny, and didn't to comments that were not. The point of giving the long, detailed explanations is to try to explain to everyone here just what this project is about. I won't apologize for giving you more information then you expected.
Think about it this way; if my reply had only been one or two sentances, would you really have any interest or faith in this project? Being able to instantly answer any and all questions about the project should hint at the intense thought and planning I have already put into the game.
Originally Posted by -Adam- Her chin really is too small.
Agreed. Also, not sure if this is just my phone, but the shading kinda bothers me, if only because i was expecting it to be anime-style shading like i see in, uh, anime with different shading? Cleaner shading?
My wife isn't a pro manga/hentai artist. She is just an housewife putting pen to paper. However, I believe her artwork is good enough to achieve the desired effect.
The whole game is in 256 colors. If the whole game was in high color, the game would be needlessly huge. As for her coloring style, that is her style.
Maybe the old me would have let you draw me into a flame war, but not today's me. Nice try though.
I want to repeat something that I said in my first post; nothing that is said here will effect the development of this game. The only thing you can achieve by getting on my bad side is greatly reducing the odds of me allowing you to play the finished product.
My goal isn't to 'create TDC's first hentai game'. It's to finish a game together with my wife (and with my music guy). With that being said, if I did post the finished game here (assuming I was allowed to do so in the first place), it would be something done as an afterthought.
Well, atleast you're as sensitive and defensive as your old self.
I wasn't trying to drag you into any flamewar, I honestly think that the clash between quality, or style if you wish, will put a lot of potential players off, which would IMHO be a bigger loss to your artist, since her displayed work is very good.
Obviously you don't want to hear what people has to say, but you kinda' set yourself up for it when you in your initial post state:
"The point of this post is to try to determine the level of demand for these types of games here on TDC, [...] and get feedback from interested parites to make a better product."
You're right, I did say I wanted feedback, didn't I? I'm concede to that. So tell me, without directly editing my sprites, how would you go about improving them?
I guess I'll admit to being 'sensitive and defensive' as well. But maybe you should be thankful I don't resort to making comments on your pixel art in return.
Tell me, could you do what I am doing? Yeah, I can already guess what your reply is going to be, "I don't want to make a hentai game." And that would be a fair reply. Moreover, you shouldn't make a game you really weren't interested in. It would show, and it wouldn't be as good as it would be otherwise.
Of course, giving that reply could also be a way of avoiding admiting you don't have the talent to pull it off. I've seen your sprites. You have some skill, but you can't walk where I'm walking. Not for a few years anyway.
Do you disagree? Then make a hentai game of your own. Without stealing pixel art from other games, of course. I'll be Coke, you can be Pepsi. Come on, it will be fun.
Edit: What I had meant was that nothing said here will stop me from finishing this game. If the fold or call, the game will still continue.
I am intentionally double posting because I want to leave the above post unchanged.
Any one can make comments, give advice, etc. Like the saying goes, 'talk is cheap'. It take no effort whatsoever to say you don't like something. "I don't like your tiles." "Lasers look lame.", etc. But when my tiles and lasers look better then your own, how do you expect me to take you seriously?
Up until this thread I have tried really hard to avoid making personal attacks. I will defend myself, of course. But I have tried really hard not to hurt other people's feelings.
Let me tell you something you might not realize; as long as you don't stop, you are always moving forward. But the thing about that is some people started before you did. Some people move faster then you do. I didn't want to insult people just because they had a late or slow start. Everyone has different skill levels. Everyone has different, evolving skill sets.
I have looked at your pixel art. The real reason I don't want C&C is don't want to step on anyone's toes.
There is nothing new you can tell me. The same goes with nearly every one else here. I was trying to avoid indirectly insulting anyone's skill level. Maybe I should have explained this reasoning much sooner.
Am I trying to say I'm the best pixel artist in the world? No. Am I trying to say I am the best pixel art on the site? Nope. I am simply saying I am aware of my skill level and the skill levels of those around me. I'm sorry, but you're not in a position to give me advice. You need to work on bigger, more complex sprites first. You need to be able to complex animations. You have a talent, you just need to get more exp points to level up.
Let me ask you this; Did you play Final Fantasy 6 and/or Chrono Trigger? What do you think of the character sprites in those games? Because it's fairly clear my character sprites are superior to both. So if you like the sprites from those games, but don't like mine.... well, that's a logic fail, son. As for my tiles, I haven't gotten FF6 grade yet,.. But I believe my tiles match and exceed tiles found in most other indie games.
So where is this 'improvement' that you are so sure I need, needed? I'll give you a chance to explain yourself.
And in case you are wondering, there are indeed pixel artists (that actively post here) that I respect and would ask advice from. I can think of two off the top of my head. If I wanted C&C so badly, I would PM those people directly. Do you understand now?
Oh, one last thing, forget about the Coke/Pepsis challenge. Just continue to make games as you have been using your own skill set. I even wish you luck. As it's totally possible to enjoy a person's game, even if you don't care for that person. I'm sure we could agree on that much.
Why have a flamewar when you can have a big bonfire right?
Don't worry about hurting my feelings, I'm perfectly secure and very proud of every last piece of graphic that I've shown in public. Of course, all graphics can always have been made better, usually though, you are somewhat incapable of knowing those improvements yourself, hence why I listen to every word of CC about my displayed graphics and take to my heart those comments that ring true, usually resulting in a gradual increase of skill. I wouldn't be offended if you CC my graphics, rather, I'd be grateful and take into account all valid points you make. So feel free to say anything you wish, there will be no hard feelings.
I really don't want to write a wall of text, but I really should reply to some of your answers.
1.) What are you defending yourself from? Why do you feel that every thread is a battle?
2.) If there is nothing new anyone can tell you, how come that doesn't show in your graphics? Have you theoretically learned the entire complexity of pixelart but just flipped a finger at it's practical application?
3.) Forgive me, but it's ludicrous of you to seriously say that "it's fairly clear my character sprites are superior to both". How is that fairly clear? I don't intend to be mean, but I don't think you can get any serious pixelartist/graphician to agree with you on that.
4.) About the Coke Pepsi thing. First off, I enjoy Dr.Pepper. Secondly, could I make what you are making? To put it in cowboy: Can I walk where you are walking? I seriously don't see "where you are walking", it seems to me that your pixelart is the same as you've always posted, the real challenge of "walking where you are walking" is making the hentai-art, and since you're not doing yours anyway there is nothing to talk about there.
Can I make a 3/4 view game including hentai? Sure! And with those sprite resolutions it could be incredible!
Needless to say, I won't be making a 3/4 view game including hentai. But it has nothing to do with skill, it's because I'm way more interested in making the game I'm making and pouring my skill into.
This has already become a wall of text, so I can just go ahead and tell you what you could benefit from working on. (i.e taking the chance to explain myself on those 'improvements' I recommend)
Forgive me if you get upset with my opinion, but you just asked for my input.
I think I haven't got the picture wrong believing you want to convey most of your sprites as 'sexy' right? Then I'd suggest working on those proportions.
The baggy look can be really nice, but most of your females have uniform tubes at set angles for legs. That instantly puts me, as a viewer, off, since legs wouldn't ever look like that except if they really were tubes. The arms are also reminiscent of the tube syndrome.
The boot-look can also be very nice, but I feel your feet have more in common with loafs of bread rather than boots, and a loaf of bread is not sexy.
I have already stated my issues with your head style, so I won't bother doing it again.
These are proportion-issues, most of which would be a whole lot better if you took into account this here next part, shading.
The shading is way too flat, pillowish, lacking in contrast and complimentary colors while wasting palette space with too many subtle nuances of the same hue. You said it yourself, the game is in 256 colors, so it's even more important to use a well thought out palette, that is pixelart 101. Look at FF6 and Chrono Trigger, you'll see that each color used in the sprites are well thought out. Only using 256 colors should not be used as an excuse why not to try and improve your graphics.
I have only touched the sprites, since you're already aware of your tiles not being FF6 grade yet.
But I have to thank you.
Your reply is something I will save and cheerish, knowing that if I ever start thinking and communicating in the same manner, I'll know that I have become so full of myself that I need a serious reality check.
May I just say that people are entitled to their own opinions despite their graphical ability. I don't see that Eternal Man[EE] is doing anything wrong. People will always receive criticism of their work, constructive or otherwise, its a part of life, so if you don't want anyone to judge your graphical ability don't post screenshots in the forums!
"Of course, giving that reply could also be a way of avoiding admiting you don't have the talent to pull it off. I've seen your sprites. You have some skill, but you can't walk where I'm walking. Not for a few years anyway."
Heh, on the topic, I tend to like hentai games, but only if you merge the gameplay with the art. There's nothing really wrong with them; I find it ironic that people can like all those gory games, but it gets really awkward to talk about a hentai game, especially since most of them are censored anyway.
I hate 95% of them, where it's basically a bunch of pictures and a really bad story slapped on, or a 'click these spots' collection of minigames. Or the ones that are basically just tetris or whatever with pics rewarding you when you win, because the game itself doesn't reward you.
I'd rather go with one with subpar graphics and good gameplay where the gameplay merges into the graphics. For a violence analogy, it's like where in the Total War games where a pike can throw a cavalryman off his horse, or a cannon would blow them to bits, instead of where there's 30 mins of preanimated violence that has little to do with how you plan the game.
Since your game looks better than that 95%, drop me a PM about it when it's done
Disclaimer: Any sarcasm in my posts will not be mentioned as that would ruin the purpose. It is assumed that the reader is intelligent enough to tell the difference between what is sarcasm and what is not.
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Edited by Eternal Man [EE]
my graphics, rather, I'd be grateful and take into account all valid points you make. So feel free to say anything you wish, there will be no hard feelings.
