I wondered if one of the admins could please update us on the status of the Daily Click? I figured after reading Rikus's fair well message the site would close all most immediately. Obviously its still here and I'm very grateful, is it possible someone could update whats happening?
The domain name has been handed over to Clickteam, but the actual site should still be ok for now, but we're talking about slimming it down, giving it a crash diet. Basically get rid of the things that don't mean so much to people. This is what I would like to see, but these are only my opinions and it doesn't mean these things are happening:
GOTW - Isn't really valued anymore as a prestigious award. To take a look at how popular GOTW voting is, observe the poll and notice the complete lack of votes from two months ago exactly. So this would almost certainly be going.
VIP forums - Didn't really work out. Few people attain such a high number of DC posts, and the point of this forum was to motivate people into posting more. The problem? There was no reason to do so - hardly anything happens in those forums.
Forums in general - to be condensed and merged. The forums (and the site as a whole) are too bloated, there are too many of them. Ideally I would like to see a maximum of four or five forums, tops.
Reviews - This is partly our fault. Because we introduced the 5-star rating system in the comments section for downloads, this meant that members simply couldn't be bothered to write a full-length, in-depth analysis of a game. A quick rating out of 5 and a brief comment would make the Reviews page redundant, but I could also argue that this system made it too easy for TDC members to not put any effort in writing reviews. That might sound like I'm having a pop at the community, but to be honest I do the same thing: I haven't written any reviews for years because of the 5-star system!
There's more, but I don't really want to go into it too much right now.
That's very useful information Chris, thank you very much for updating this post. I'd hate to see TDC disappear as there are so many talented members in the TDC community with a wealth of knowledge on click products who are always on hand to help like your self. It would be a shame to loose the site!
It's quite a shame that the focus in the click "scene" has changed these days. As Chris has stated, no-one seems to care for GOTW or even GOTM anymore. I guess it's because everyone has "big game fever", so most people spend eons making games with a low probability of them ever getting released. This is something of which most clickers are guilty of, myself included.
There needs to be some driving force to get people to make small but fun games again.
There needs to be some driving force to get people to make small but fun games again.
^ This. I think the site would gather so much more activity if we had a steady stream of new games coming in. Unfortunately, it's just not something that can forced on our members; We have to be inspired to pursue small projects. Perhaps if we did something like Ludum Dare, only with a slightly longer time limit... but again, inspiration presents an issue with most folks.
As far as the general "trimming" of the site goes, I'd have to agree with Chris's points. Removing dead features would streamline things a little more and might make us look more attractive to outsiders. A fresh start, so to speak.
That being said, here are my opinions on what needs to go:
- Game of the Week. The actual GOTW gallery could be moved from the top bar to the Back To the Click section.
- Articles. They're dead for the most part, and I think it would be easier and more fulfilling if members simply wrote articles in forum threads, as it leaves the door open for active discussion about each topic.
- Reviews. As Chris said, the five-star rating system makes this feature redundant.
- Arcade. Maybe. No one has played any of the games in there for a good year or more, but it could be argued that the only reason for this is because there's no new games coming in, nor are there very many new members coming in. An increase in site activity might revive it.
- Links. While this isn't on the top bar anymore, the latest links are still present on the sidebar on the front page. It should just be completely removed from the site's database.
- The following forum sections: Misc Chat, Non-Klik Coding Help, Team Projects, The Daily Click Arcade, all VIP forums
Here are some ideas of what we could add in their place:
- A Featured Gallery. In other words, a gallery with all of the games that have the "Daily Click Recommended" or "Daily Click Highly Recommended" tags. The gallery link should be extremely visible to new visitors so that they're likely to check it out first before anything else. We need something on the site that clearly tells people "This is who we are, this is what we make, and this is what YOU could be making."
- More streamlined user profiles. We could add fields for each of the major social networks (Facebook, Twitter, etc) so that it's easy for folks to connect their DC profile to other sites that they visit frequently. Another idea would be to add a customizable text field so that people can provide their own information and links.
- Expanded project devlogs. Seeing how most of our members are committed to large-scale projects, I think it would pay off to give the Projects section more attention. I really, really like the devlog system we have here, moreso than any other game site I've visited. It's easy to understand, and it's already got some nice features such as automatically sorting your log updates by month/year and your own set of forums for project discussion. It's just a really great feature for those of us who can't be bothered to build our own websites for our games. I think that it could become amazing if we add a few more features to it to make it more accessible to the outside world, especially if we add social networking integration (i.e. toggle Facebook Like/Twitter Tweet buttons for devlog updates, the ability to automatically update your Facebook whenever you update your devlog, etc).
As far as what needs to go, I want to say the "tags". I mean there are so many different ones to collect, which could be fun even though they don't have much meaning. Except they cost a ton of points. I would have to problem keeping them (and probably enjoy them) if they were to cost waaaaaay less.
I don't see why the "non-click coding" forum should go, unless we are gonna make this a click game-only site which I thought people said they didnt want. I do think its good to be open to discussing other programs.
[quote]everyone has "big game fever", so most people spend eons making games with a low probability of them ever getting released. [/quote]
I am making a big game but I have a demo available for download. And I update it frequently, like every time I make a new level sometimes. Just pointing that out, cause my "big game" can still be enjoyed. If people don't release their unfinished game there's a good chance people might wonder if its even real, you know? Or like they would need to get a good taste of it, in order to appriciate it enough to continue to wait for it and not just give up.
[quote]- A Featured Gallery. In other words, a gallery with all of the games that have the "Daily Click Recommended" or "Daily Click Highly Recommended" tags. The gallery link should be extremely visible to new visitors so that they're likely to check it out first before anything else. We need something on the site that clearly tells people "This is who we are, this is what we make, and this is what YOU could be making."
- More streamlined user profiles. We could add fields for each of the major social networks (Facebook, Twitter, etc) so that it's easy for folks to connect their DC profile to other sites that they visit frequently. Another idea would be to add a customizable text field so that people can provide their own information and links.
- Expanded project devlogs. Seeing how most of our members are committed to large-scale projects, I think it would pay off to give the Projects section more attention. I really, really like the devlog system we have here, moreso than any other game site I've visited. It's easy to understand, and it's already got some nice features such as automatically sorting your log updates by month/year and your own set of forums for project discussion. It's just a really great feature for those of us who can't be bothered to build our own websites for our games. I think that it could become amazing if we add a few more features to it to make it more accessible to the outside world, especially if we add social networking integration (i.e. toggle Facebook Like/Twitter Tweet buttons for devlog updates, the ability to automatically update your Facebook whenever you update your devlog, etc).
[/quote]
I don't see why the "non-click coding" forum should go, unless we are gonna make this a click game-only site which I thought people said they didnt want. I do think its good to be open to discussing other programs.
To elaborate, I think we should merge Non-Klik Coding with Klik Coding and just make a single section for all things related to coding. But, yes, I see your point.
Also, seeing how we'll likely be removing/remodeling some of the sections that award points (such as Reviews), it seems only fair that tag prices be adjusted. :3
Yeah except I think they cost too much already. So if theyre to be adjusted, they should be made low enough that theyre actually more worth it. I'll admit though that perhaps I am wrong about how worth it they are. I mean I havent used the site enough nor have I ever wanted to buy any. It just looks outrageous to me at first glance, since there are a TON of different ones, and they all cost 500 points.
And Im glad non-klik discussion will still be allowed. However, I also kinda like the idea of isolating the click discussion in a separate forum since thats still the MAIN focus of this site.
Since you talked about removing the VIP thing, would you therefore recommend that I DON'T buy it? Cause I was thinking of maybe doing so once I submit at least one more game and get enough points.
Also just out of curiousity, why has ownership of this domain been handed to clickteam?
I think the site needs a huge face lift, looks abit dated by today's standards and I think this puts people off. The site needs to appeal to the newer YouTube Generation to entice newer members and interest.
I think the star system, buying icons and earning points is a load of bollocks personally and a big waste of time. The site should be focused on promoting and reviewing indie games and letting us know whats going on in the indie world market. The site really needs to sell the simplicity of the Click Team packages for making games, TGF 1 & 2 & MMF 2 are amazing products for anyone that wants to make games, So articles and video tutorials should be a huge focus also!
- Expanded project devlogs. Seeing how most of our members are committed to large-scale projects, I think it would pay off to give the Projects section more attention. I really, really like the devlog system we have here, moreso than any other game site I've visited. It's easy to understand, and it's already got some nice features such as automatically sorting your log updates by month/year and your own set of forums for project discussion. It's just a really great feature for those of us who can't be bothered to build our own websites for our games. I think that it could become amazing if we add a few more features to it to make it more accessible to the outside world, especially if we add social networking integration (i.e. toggle Facebook Like/Twitter Tweet buttons for devlog updates, the ability to automatically update your Facebook whenever you update your devlog, etc).
Also I have to say, I dont really UNDERSTAND the star system. I mean all the stars are pretty. But what do the different amounts of different colors even mean? Forgive me if its actually written somewhere, but I have no clue. And there's also too many of them it my opinion, it looks kinda cluttery. There should be less of them.
Also, for now I would suggest that you DON'T join the VIP page If it's going to be scrapped (and it probably will be) you would be wasting your points.
In fact, I would argue that the whole points system could do with an overhaul.
An idea we were tossing around for Gamebuilder ages ago was to limit the amount of points in total, and impose a tax. This would cause an economy to form. If people post regularly and post games, the productive members will have lots of points. If very little activity occurs, the economy crashes and the overall points among users goes way down.
Have you even been far as decided to use even go want to do look more like?
I'm not sure whether I like that. I mean what if someone submits all their games. But then they just after that, hardly ever make games because theyre just too busy, or whatever. Should they really deserve to lose their points?
Games DO take a while to make, also. So to make the tax worthwhile you'd have to only charge it after YEARS, in my opinion. And by then the site will probably have changed a lot or perhaps died anyway.
I would imagine it would be submissions in general, not just downloads, that Jacob is talking about. ie, updating projects, writing articles, reviews, etc.
Although not necessarily forum posts, too easy to spam high hell out of that unless you limit postings per day.
I like it how it is with getting a LOT of points per submission, but still getting 1 point for a post.
Its a LOT less but it still gives you recognition of your activity on the forum.
And its small enough that I cant see how spamming would be worth it. Not like any reasonable person here would want to abuse that anyway. I bump topics when I have something new to say, not because I want one stupid point.
I would hope to see something of the trophies kept though, probably just cuz I freaked out an spent all of my points on them when I saw 'Last News Post' by Rikus But if they have to be sacrificed I understand. I do fear that stuff like trophies and points limits people to the feeling of only get ahead if they've been in the community for a long time and accumulated such, which can be very intimidating sometimes
Yeah, it is a lot quiter I think it's probably because many of the older members have moved on, and that there are no massive klik projects to talk about, like there were in the day with Eternal Daughter / Chaos Gate, etc.
That's a shame... I liked the days when there were a lot of big projects going on in the open with a lot of hype. Like Jonny RPG, Mr. Stump's Dentures, and all those crazy short-term competitions.
I recommend the Glorious Trainwrecks site. Its focus is on very short-form games (quick sketches of ideas, and some would even say "joke" games - which is what I do there pretty much exclusively), and has basically canonized Klik n' Play. It's a light-hearted game-making site that I think is worth it for anyone to participate in, from novices to seasoned veterans.
The focus is simply on creating games and quick turnarounds, as opposed to aiming for perfection over a months-long development schedule. This way, everyone can be involved with minimal setup time and virtually no pressure to create awesome graphics or flawlessly-immersive storylines. Create a game, and let it go out into the world. If it sucks, no big deal...there's always the next Klik Jam.
I can easily see a partnership between GT and TDC, feeding off one anothers' strengths and making both better off. The weekly roundups here, for example, can feature folks two-hour creations. Plus, there would be more content generated for the GT Klik game jams.
(And all game creation tools are welcome, not just Klik Products)
Originally Posted by Phredreeke Downloaded games from that site... then I get error because I can't run 16-bit apps (got a 64-bit OS)
Fortunately, many others are solving the problem you mentioned...Much like TDC, they welcome pretty much any game-making tool for people to make games. Some of them are Flash apps or made in Unity or whatever, and don't require a download. It all depends on the game in particular.
If you really want to play some of the games made on KNP, then you could always bust out DOSBox.
The main reason why the site is dying, I think, is that the people who hang around TDC are good enough to be professional. Remember the days when TDC got flooded with complete shit games from people who were just starting out? Every few weeks, we'd get a kick-ass game from a master. And in between, we'd occupy ourselves with the garbage. (I would know - I submitted 100% garbage.) But it didn't matter. It was god damned fun to make games.
In addition to the problem mentioned above, there's the fact that the economy sucks, and fun, leisurely game making doesn't fit into most people's schedules. We want to make money. We NEED to make money.
The other problem is that there aren't really any kids who are into this kind of game making anymore. Fuck, I don't know very many kids who are interested in anything that's not celebrity tweet related. Maybe it's just my area/the kids I know, but they just don't seem to be very interested in stuff. Christ, when I was seven, I got into K&P. I joined the community when I was twelve.
I don't know. Maybe it's just run its course?
Edited by Retired Kliker Lazarus
Fine Garbage since 2003.
CURRENT PROJECT:
-Paying off a massive amount of debt in college loans.
-Working in television.
Seriously though. This place used to be a buzzing metropolis of fun times and occasionally mild retardation (the latter mostly on my part.) What the hell happened? Who is still around? I see Chris Street, Shab, Snerlin, and Phredeekee. Where is Hayo, Johnny Smeby, that guy who made Satan Sam, and so on and so forth?
Edited by Retired Kliker Lazarus
Fine Garbage since 2003.
CURRENT PROJECT:
-Paying off a massive amount of debt in college loans.
-Working in television.
Originally Posted by Ye Olde Lazarus The other problem is that there aren't really any kids who are into this kind of game making anymore. Fuck, I don't know very many kids who are interested in anything that's not celebrity tweet related. Maybe it's just my area/the kids I know, but they just don't seem to be very interested in stuff. Christ, when I was seven, I got into K&P. I joined the community when I was twelve.
There's plenty of them. They're just not using klik products. Klik has run its course. It's like VB or ASP, good product, but not good enough. It's slow. I mean, I can just whip out a decent combat engine that utilizes three dozen variables in Python in half a week, but it'd take me half a month to do it in MMF, because I won't be able to read my own code.
Kids these days make Game Maker games. GM was once a joke, but now it's more popular than klik, even used in educational institutions now.
And plus, unlike the good old days, it's really easy to learn C++ properly. Or python, or some other thing. Heck, Python is miles easier than either Lua or MMF. It's also pretty easy to get a platform library for most code.
And klikers just never moved past the amateur stage. There's just no teamwork. MMF is too buggy and clumsy to withstand massive projects. Open source or just building a better engine on top of a good engine never caught on. There's no klik games that are on the same level as other indie games.
Edited by Muz
Disclaimer: Any sarcasm in my posts will not be mentioned as that would ruin the purpose. It is assumed that the reader is intelligent enough to tell the difference between what is sarcasm and what is not.
I am actually re-browsing this site for the first time in years. My story is similar to Ye Olde Lazarus, I started in 4th grade with Lucas Ahearn's (sp?) book, and from there went on to conquer all things klik. Looking back, I now can use pretty much any modern programming language (including non-languages like GMK), yet still dug up my old TGF2 install disks some months ago for some rapid prototyping work.
That is why TGF will always have its place: we used to have 1 hour competitions. You cannot do that with any other programming system (save for GM).
Anyway, I have started getting a touch nostalgic lately, and have been really working to track down and re-download the games that I used to love years ago. You know, the electroids (my fav klik series), the gunners, fish/spiderheads, a side scrolling Konami game in a 320x200 window with crazy bosses, this crazy tongue in cheek adventure platformer... (you see how hard this can get when you forget the game names)
I also had quite a few huge projects in the works using tricks that I had never released (nor seen anywhere else) at the time. Of course, it is all old hat now, but the stuff was crazy back then. I remember years ago on the CT forums when I introduced procedurally generated lightmaps using only TGF2 (no extensions), or even the 'demo mode' that eventually became baked in as a feature (I was on a roll haha).
Its unfortunate to see what the Klik community has become. Its like returning after a hurricane to see only ruins where your house was. You remember what was there and have tons of fantastic memories, but what is there now is only a shadow of what it once was
Sorry guys, I'm done. Just wanted to reminisce for a bit.
Hmm... I was thinking of making a new TDC site from scratch into PHP (since I work as a web designer now). New coat of paint would be fun, maybe even design it to more modern standards - SEO friendly stuff, more security, design it to fit ipads and ipods and TV screens, proper color scheme, CSS3, HTML5.
But yeah, time. And if I wanted to work on sites, I might as well on website tech like I'm getting paid to do.
I'll be happy to hold someone's hand through making a TDC site from scratch though. It could look better than Tigsource even
Edited by Muz
Disclaimer: Any sarcasm in my posts will not be mentioned as that would ruin the purpose. It is assumed that the reader is intelligent enough to tell the difference between what is sarcasm and what is not.
I used KNP nearly two decades ago... I was stuck with dialup internet for a long time which prevented me from joining any community such as TDC. What attracted me to MMF2 was the fact you can export your games or apps across such a wide variety of platforms. Much of the generic work (as far as game development is concerned) is already completed for the user. Although its showing its age by now its still a very elegant way to put together a program for people who don't want to learn code. The biggest flaw in programming is that a majority of the books which aim to teach it don't make it interesting if not a downright snooze. The visual aspect of MMF2 is it's greatest strength and 2d gaming by far is not dead. It will take up until I start getting gray hair before 3d games will even come close to reaching sheer number of 2d games on the market. MMF is still a practical tool and is a great way to get yourself started in the indie game scene. In that same respect don't ever limit yourself to a single tool. Keep learning new things so that in time your skills will improve.
I see the site's also gone lax on the language rules since a few years back
Disclaimer: Any sarcasm in my posts will not be mentioned as that would ruin the purpose. It is assumed that the reader is intelligent enough to tell the difference between what is sarcasm and what is not.
Unfortunately TDC is dying......... I firstly visited it back in 2000 and I think it's time to shut it down I do not know WHY this happened but I think it's time to move on....
I've been coming to the daily click for years now. Only recently did I become a member to search for a game that unfortunately no one was able to help me find. Changing some stuff around, sure it can't hurt but closing the site is in my opinion a mistake.
My biggest problems with the site are that unless the game was posted in the past few months it may be lost forever. I've been looking for at least 5 games now that neither the author has nor does anyone else have them. Another problem I have and I realize I'm in the minority here is that a lot of games featured on the front page are apps for the iPhone. I do not have a iPhone so I do not read these articles as they do not apply to me. Where are all the PC games? That's why I used to come here and that's why I will still continue to come here.
Without this site I never would have found many of the games I still play today. I am eternally grateful for this site and would hate to see it go.
Assault Andy Administrator
I make other people create vaporware
Registered 29/07/2002
Points 5686
24th January, 2013 at 24/01/2013 05:43:46 -
Woo! Yeah! Make games!
I think what some people mentioned above about people moving on from Klik is true. I think as the people who were really good at MMF2 got better, MMF2 didn't really keep up and they all moved onto other software and engines.
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