Hobby Lobby is a one stop shop retailer for arts,crafts supplies, furniture and many other items.
Last time I shopped there I did a little investigating. Everything in the store in made in China!
You're telling me we can't make crayons and pencils in the USA? This is frustrating because now I have to add Hobby Lobby to my list of places to avoid. Michaels is not even as big an offender, although I've noticed they are starting to bring in cheaper and cheaper materials and paints. (at least in my area)
What ever happened to quality merchandise from places like Germany, Sweden, Hungry, and Poland? Less than a month ago I bought a bike in real nice condition from 1963 made in Austria for $35. It rides better than my 10 year old bike! I am very skeptical of items which say "Assembled in America from parts overseas" does anyone else feel like were being duped?
Anyway, you're hardly being duped - you're simply benefiting from cheap overseas labour.
Previously, you could only buy products made in N.America / Europe, and they were always very expensive because of the high cost of labour in those regions - but that was never a guarantee of quality anyway.
Now, you can still do that if you want to, but you also have the choice of buying a Chinese made product, costing far less, yet often of equivalent or higher quality.
You just can't have both.
The bigger issue is that companies (not just in China) now intentionally design products with built-in obsolescence - not because their factories can't produce quality products or to cut costs, but because the company makes more money if you're forced to frequently replace items.
As for the effect on the domestic labour market, balance of payments, etc - that's just too bad. Trying to make some kind of political statement by paying over the odds for something just because of where it was made, is not going to have any effect, and quite frankly it's a luxury I can't afford.
Okay so I'm not cray after all. It's easy to see on certain products in which something is made of plastic (usually a critical part) when obviously they should have chose another material or at least made it thicker. Just imagine that it's the job of an educated engineer somewhere to purposely design a product to fail? RIDICULOUS! Designing a product to fail whether its on purpose or not is a good reason to shun Chinese merchandise.
"American made products not a guarantee of quality?" LOL! Why then did most industrialized counties strive to be more like America then? We built quality automobiles and merchandise in such a way that it impacted the world. In a way we set the standard for the rest of the world which was devastated after World War 2. The design of our highway systems have even been copied by countries like Japan. (Too be fair we based our designs off of the German Autobahn.)
Explain to me why true American made products continually last when their inferior modern equivalent does not? Maybe you should watch an episode of American Pickers?
Unions got too greedy in my opinion which is another issue. I can proudly say that a vast majority of American made products I have owned are indeed quality items. When an entire store carries products from a single country that is a problem! Oh wait the balsa wood airplanes near the cash registers are made in the USA. (HobbyLobby)
Still it makes no sense the size of things are shrinking and the prices rise. I'd be okay with the prices rising if at least products stayed the same size! In a recession things are not supposed to raise in price! Any teacher who knows basic economics will tell you that. Simply put it's just plain and simple greed ruling the planet. Whoever also came up with the idea of a Global economy system should be blasted into outer space.
Originally Posted by NostalgicAlgorithms Okay so I'm not cray after all. It's easy to see on certain products in which something is made of plastic (usually a critical part) when obviously they should have chose another material or at least made it thicker. Just imagine that it's the job of an educated engineer somewhere to purposely design a product to fail? RIDICULOUS! Designing a product to fail whether its on purpose or not is a good reason to shun Chinese merchandise.
"American made products not a guarantee of quality?" LOL! Why then did most industrialized counties strive to be more like America then? We built quality automobiles and merchandise in such a way that it impacted the world. In a way we set the standard for the rest of the world which was devastated after World War 2. The design of our highway systems have even been copied by countries like Japan. (Too be fair we based our designs off of the German Autobahn.)
Explain to me why true American made products continually last when their inferior modern equivalent does not? Maybe you should watch an episode of American Pickers?
Unions got too greedy in my opinion which is another issue. I can proudly say that a vast majority of American made products I have owned are indeed quality items. When an entire store carries products from a single country that is a problem! Oh wait the balsa wood airplanes near the cash registers are made in the USA. (HobbyLobby)
Still it makes no sense the size of things are shrinking and the prices rise. I'd be okay with the prices rising if at least products stayed the same size! In a recession things are not supposed to raise in price! Any teacher who knows basic economics will tell you that. Simply put it's just plain and simple greed ruling the planet. Whoever also came up with the idea of a Global economy system should be blasted into outer space.
It doesn't make sense? Dude, America is the epitome of a capitalist economy. Expensive products that can be manufactured dirt cheap are our lifebood. Unfortunately, Americans aren't willing to work for next-to-nothing and American businesses can't afford raw manufacturing materials like China can. It'd be nice if you could walk into a store and see an American made equivalent for every "made in China" product on the shelf. You DON'T have that option anymore. There are whole stores devoted to imported products (WalMart), but look at the type of people who shop at stores like that. They're just out for savings. That's not embarrassing or petty; it's just reality.
Even if American companies began to manufacture despite the costly materials and expensive labor, the only way they could make up for that is by increasing the cost of their goods. Expensive products that hardly anybody will buy when confronted with the option of buying something comparable and cheaper. That's just how capitalism works in a recession. My girlfriend's aunt is a multi-millionaire who shops at Walmart and DollarTree all the time.
Talk to most any American and they would agree there's not enough American-made, or quality-crafted goods sold in America. That's the public opinion, but the private buying habits of Americans show that the vast majority of us either can't afford or don't care enough.
ChrisD> Employer: Say, wanna see a magic trick?
ChrisD> Employee: Uhh… sure, boss.
ChrisD> Employer: Your job! It just disappeared! Pack your things and leave! Pretty good trick, huh?
Originally Posted by NostalgicAlgorithms Still it makes no sense the size of things are shrinking and the prices rise. I'd be okay with the prices rising if at least products stayed the same size! In a recession things are not supposed to raise in price! Any teacher who knows basic economics will tell you that.
Begging your pardon, but that's exactly what a recession is supposed to do.
Technically speaking, prices don't rise; it's the currency that loses value; that's the definition of recession. It's not an easy concept to understand at first, but when you're discussing rising prices, falling quality of goods, and the nightmares inherent in a global economy, it's important to know the fundamentals like the act of state currency losing its value in comparison to goods, the labor force, and the means of production.
Here's what I recommend people read, should they be seriously interested in this sort of thing.
Good stuff! It would seem my economics teacher was an idiot. He also was convinced you ride a bike toward oncoming traffic... (Florida Education what can I say?)
The USA can make affordable and profitable products. Why and how? Because we used to for many years. Germany admired the US for being self sustaining. They wanted to achieve this but as we know they went about it the wrong way... I don't believe that we have inadequate access to raw materials or can't pay people a fair wage. What it comes down to is power and greed. Unless we are careful work camps are the future and as the division between rich and poor becomes even greater, its only a matter of time before everyone is a slave.
Just because the USA *used to* be able to make affordable and profitable products, doesn't mean it can now. That was before China and India had large scale industry. Those countries will always be able to make basic products to an equally high standard but at a substantially lower cost, because they have extremely cheap labour, lower taxes and far fewer restrictions on working conditions, environmental pollution, etc.
Since you mention work camps, slaves, etc - did you know that:
American prisoners produce 100% of American military helmets, ammunition belts, bullet proof vests, ID tags and other items of uniform. They also produce 93% of domestically produced paints, 36% of household appliances and 21% of office furniture. This allows the USA to compete with cheap imports because the prisoners cannot refuse to work. The incentive to work in prison is that if you do not you are given solitary confinement.
The USA is in much the same situation as Britain, which is that it can't (and shouldn't) compete with developing countries like China and India when it comes to mass producing cheap, low-tech products (such as the stuff you buy from Walmart). Rather, it needs to focus on the high-tech, high-value, low-quantity products that those countries can't make. That's why Germany's economy is doing so well - they're great at that kind of thing (especially luxury cars and other vehicles).
Originally Posted by Sketchy Since you mention work camps, slaves, etc - did you know that:
American prisoners produce 100% of American military helmets, ammunition belts, bullet proof vests, ID tags and other items of uniform. They also produce 93% of domestically produced paints, 36% of household appliances and 21% of office furniture. This allows the USA to compete with cheap imports because the prisoners cannot refuse to work. The incentive to work in prison is that if you do not you are given solitary confinement.
Your words related to prisoner statistics resonated with me, Sketchy. The fate of the US economy and its prisons are thickly intertwined.
There's an idea closely related to the global economy and this "new slavery" called the prison industrial complex. It's the notion that, in order to compete globally with developing countries that have access to cheap labor and a burgeoning economy with hardly any labor laws to restrict development, the US needs to generate cheap labor for itself, outside of unions and outside of its own labor laws. Their answer? Prisoners.
Why has the "war on drugs" continued, in the face of ever-mounting evidence that there is absolutely no reduction in drug use (the supposed purpose of the drug war policies)? Because corporations have a vested interest in continuing the mandatory minimum sentences, illegal status of marijuana, and other draconian laws that disproportionately punish the under-educated, under-represented (in politics), and poverty-stricken. For many reasons, these folks are unable to work at a regular job, or keep it for long.
So instead of constantly staying on welfare/the dole, benign activities are considered illegal, which puts these folks in prisons. Mandatory minimum sentencing keeps them there for an exaggerated length of time, within which they're pretty much required to work for pennies a day in a life threatening environment, with overseers who don't give a damn whether or not the prisoners ever leave.
Communities in the United States today hope that a prison is built in their post-industrial town, because it at least means there will be jobs coming to their area. It's not just prison guards; it's construction, food prep and production, infrastructure such as roads, and so on. As a result, there is no incentive to reduce criminality, and there is a strong incentive to create more laws that will inevitably be broken, producing more criminals.
The only people who want prisoners to stay out of prisons are people who work outside of the state prison system. Guards (courtesy of the vocal police unions) don't want prisoners to be rehabilitated or laws to be abolished, as this jeopardizes their job security.
I could go on and on about this positively despicable development in the US today (including institutionalized racism within the justice system), but it turns my stomach to think on it too much. But here are some damning statistics about the impact of the prison industrial complex in the US.
As of January 1, 2008, more than 1 in 100 adults in the United States were in prison or jail (guilty or awaiting trial).
The United States prison population has quadrupled since 1980, in part due to mandatory sentencing laws part-and-parcel of the "war on drugs."
Even though more and more money is being spent each year on local law enforcement, even though local law enforcement is becoming outfitted with decomissioned military hardware, violent crime has dropped noticeably since the early 1990's, shortly before the first Iraq War. Across the board, all reported crime has dropped in the United States nearly 25% between 1988 and 2008.
From the title of the editorial: "Seventy-Two Cops Were Shot and Killed in the Entire U.S. in 2011; LA County Cops Alone Shot and Killed 54 Suspects the Same Year"
http://reason.com/blog/2012/06/11/seventy-two-cops-were-shot-and-killed-in
It's important that the general public learns about these trends, and why it is so important to lobby against the prison industrial complex. It is also important to realize the War on Drugs is not really about reducing drug use; it's about maintaining global economic competition for the United States at the expense of US citizens themselves, and funneling taxpayer's money into the government, where it will serve only to expand government influence and power.
You forgot the UK NostalgicAlgorithms, we have done some particularly fine examples of engineering!
Although I agree with general idea of people not being duped (the mass public are creating the demand for cheap stuff!) most Chinese products are not of an equivalent or better quality. Wait until the cheap electrolytic capacitors in your monitor start to fail . I have repaired a fair few for friends and family. I still have a 28 inch CRT TV (Hitachi, made in Wales) that my parents brought in 93 in my bedroom (after it was retired from the living room a couple of years ago, for my SNES). Still works a treat.
Some of the Chinese electronics I have taken apart have been appallingly designed, not even considering the aforementioned shoddy quality components. Non continuous ground planes, single layer PCBs (no controlled impedance) for high speed differential signals (read USB), poor or non-existent decoupling, etc etc etc.
That said there are a few Chinese companies that are trying to push a quality aspect but they are few and far between.
On a completely different note, if you had been to China and seen the pollution you would be glad that mass industrial production is NOT happening on your door step.
Originally Posted by ..::hagar::.. You forgot the UK NostalgicAlgorithms, we have done some particularly fine examples of engineering!
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No disagreement there. I've yet to have anything made in the UK disappoint me.
I have a few CRT Tv's and Computer monitors I will never give up. Why? Because they just seem to last forever. Also the range of colors simply cannot be beat by a LCD. (not to mention the near instant response time) The biggest complaint about LCD monitors is that they loose focus on an object in motion. Any FPS gamer should know what I mean.
As for the pollution in China so what? A regimented communist society has no say on the matter. (Boohoo!) It's all about what you deem as an acceptable living standard. Only the people can force a change if they're willing. Don't like it? Then change it. That's the price they pay for flooding the global market with their crap. Communism is total fail and so is working your people to death like worker ants. Procreating like a hive didn't seem to help much either, maybe its time the world considered enforcing a type of population control? We cannot just infinitely breed and expand. It's beyond irresponsible! Unless we can learn to live in harmony with this planet we are all doomed. Mr.Obama and his background involving Communism make me very nervous... Doesn't matter though because the ignorance in this country is unrelenting.
On the matter of American Prisons I say put them to work! The free labor would definably help our economy. It would give life some purpose to these career degenerate dirtballs who think prison is a way of life.
Originally Posted by ..::hagar::.. I still have a 28 inch CRT TV (Hitachi, made in Wales) that my parents brought in 93 in my bedroom (after it was retired from the living room a couple of years ago, for my SNES). Still works a treat.
In fairness, I still have a 28" CRT TV not much newer than yours, but made by Tatung(!). I bought it ex-rental for next to nothing, and it's still working perfectly.
I certainly wouldn't buy white goods made in England. My parents always do, and they never last more than a couple of years.
Originally Posted by NostalgicAlgorithms
As for the pollution in China ... That's the price they pay for flooding the global market with their crap.
Yes, it is. But you're the one saying the USA should be making all that crap instead, and polluting their own environment in the process.
Originally Posted by NostalgicAlgorithms
Procreating like a hive didn't seem to help much either, maybe its time the world considered enforcing a type of population control?
You mean like China?
Actually, China are starting to encounter serious problems, precisely because of its one child policy. They have by far the fastest ageing population in the world, and there's no way there will be enough people of working age to provide and care for all the elderly. Unless they start killing off everyone over a certain age, Logan's Run style, it could potentially cripple their whole economy.
@S-M-R:
Here in the UK, we have our own form of slavery - it's called "the work programme".
Basically, anyone who's been out of work for 6 months is put on this programme (althought they're now trying to expand it to include everyone), and they can be forced to work without pay or they will lose their benefits for up to 3 years - but of course, the amount you receive in benefits is roughly 1/3 of the national minimum wage and none of that comes from the employer.
Big companies, including the major supermarkets, were using it as a source of free labour, having these "volunteers" (yes, that's what the government calls them!) do the exact same duties that would otherwise be performed by paid employees - so in effect, it's taking jobs away from people.
Needless to say, these volunteers are not listed as "unemployed" in the official government statistics, and studies have shown that participation has aboslutely zero effect on the likelihood of gaining paid employment, so really, it's just a way to try and kick people off benefits.
In the end, the media revealed what was going on, and there was massive public outcry, leading to many of the companies and charities involved pulling out.
In fact the mandatory work placement is just one part of the deeply flawed scheme. Another part is that private companies are paid to provide support and skills classes to try and help participants back into work. The problem is that these companies are paid based on results, with the vast majority of their payment coming only when the participant has been in a job for 6-12 months - now it doesn't take a genius to see that you simply can't run a business that way. Predictably, a lot went bust, many others pulled out, and some are being investigated for large scale fraud.
So yeah, it's been conclusively proven that the scheme has been a massive failure, it has no public support, and it's possibly not even legal - and yet the government are dead set on not just continuing it, but expanding it.
Don't forget that China also has orphanages full of young girls. (often only babies) They leave them in rooms until the crying stops then dispose of them like trash. I'm obviously not saying shoot people after a certain age but in less than 30-50 years we may be past the point of no return. Not just China but the entire world. Nothing a good war can't fix right?? China caused much of there own problems in my opinion.
Humanity will never become a Type I civilization for as long communism exists.
If we all could live without so much excess we all would be better off. Especially Americans!
@ NostalgicAlgorithms: I respectfully disagree with your attitudes regarding putting prisoners to work, and in particular your notions regarding the United States and its current government ushering humanity into some kind of "Type 1 Civilization" or beyond.
In short, my opinion is that if the United States (or any government) relies on slave labor to advance its agenda, such an amoral, unethical practice (or practitioner) deserves no respect. Regardless of its accomplishments, the institution will never be able to wash the blood from its hands.
Who ever said it was the United States Government ushering in such a change?
I only hope to live long enough to witness such a evolution. I'm not sure if you are familiar with the Kardashev scale? I'm not preaching doomsday or anything like that. Such an evolution of society and technology would be a blessing. Perhaps it in time we can undo the devastation humanity has caused? When the first practical quantum computer goes online it will be a day to remember because it will offer a glimmer of hope to those who believe we are destine to reach the stars. (maybe even beyond?)
Convicted felons should pay a debt back to society. If they cannot be reformed then at least put them to work. I'm not say let's make them slaves but shouldn't they at least earn their meal? It's only our tax dollars paying for their air conditioning, food, clothes, medical, etc... Wow doesn't sound that much different from living in a regular suburb?
Originally Posted by NostalgicAlgorithms Who ever said it was the United States Government ushering in such a change?
Good point.
I only hope to live long enough to witness such a evolution. I'm not sure if you are familiar with the Kardashev scale?
I read a little bit about Futurology and Kardashev, after researching "Type 1 civilization." I'm not too terribly interested in the notions introduced, to be honest, although it's fun to imagine the possibilities. I fail to see the connection between communism and the impossibility of these hypothetical futures (particularly so, when the Kardashev scale was developed and published by a Russian scientist in the 1960's).
Convicted felons should pay a debt back to society. If they cannot be reformed then at least put them to work. I'm not say let's make them slaves but shouldn't they at least earn their meal? It's only our tax dollars paying for their air conditioning, food, clothes, medical, etc... Wow doesn't sound that much different from living in a regular suburb?
If your "regular suburbs" include pervasive life-threatening violence, drug abuse, rape, solitary confinement, non-nutritious food, and a future punctuated with long stretches of joblessness, then yeah I'd say it sounds a lot like a regular suburb.
A Type I civilization would be able to manipulate truly planetary energies. They might, for example, control or modify their weather. They would have the power to manipulate planetary phenomena, such as hurricanes, which can release the energy of hundreds of hydrogen bombs. Perhaps volcanoes or even earthquakes may be altered by such a civilization.
Not something I would want a oppressive communist regime controlling. Just because a Russian came up with the formula means absolutely nothing. For example if humanity lasted long enough to evolve into a Type 3 civilization (like the Empire in Star Wars) we would need a damn good system of management in place because we all know how things will self-destruct if we failed. The idea of free will is in our DNA and is not something which can be oppressed indefinably. When we develop intelligent AI we cannot design such entities without treating them as equals or they will grow to ultimately resent us and maybe even terminate their creators? Even if a global authority is ever created it would have to share its decision structure within the best interest of the populous in mind if not for greater good of all mankind.
Originally Posted by s-m-r "If your "regular suburbs" include pervasive life-threatening violence, drug abuse, rape, solitary confinement, non-nutritious food, and a future punctuated with long stretches of joblessness, then yeah I'd say it sounds a lot like a regular suburb. "
Sounds like a typical American city. (*Cough* Detroit *Cough*) Criminal Enterprises can run things straight from prison while still receiving many of lives basic luxuries. Don't you see any problem with that? A human doing nothing is a waste of our planets resources. Contributing nothing but continually consuming and destroying. We must discover a better way.
((This is a long one; work's done for the day and I don't exactly want to leave the central air-conditioning...))
Originally Posted by NostalgicAlgorithms A Type I civilization would be able to manipulate truly planetary energies. [etc.]
Yeah, that all sounds fun and interesting. I just don't see it happening any time soon, regardless of the governmental arrangement. It doesn't matter to me. And all that comparison to Star Wars and developing AI that will eventually resent us is interesting, just not enough to keep me awake at night. And I definitely don't see humanity accomplishing this; to be plain, I expect humankind to extinguish itself before anything near to this power-cosmic reality comes to pass. That's as valid a prediction as any Futurist hypothesis out there.
I'm totally cool with being wrong on this front, by the way. I'm just not going to kid myself, is all I'm saying.
...Don't you see any problem with that? A human doing nothing is a waste of our planets resources. Contributing nothing but continually consuming and destroying. We must discover a better way.
I definitely see a problem with that. My angle is that I don't think mass incarceration is the way to go. It has done nothing to rehabilitate anti-social behaviour (instead, they have created breeding grounds for it), has done nothing to eliminate suffering (instead, relying on coercion and violence to destroy entire communities), it hasn't reduced unemployment and in fact fuels it (forcing eligible potential workers to sit in cages and learn no marketable skills), and consistently outstrips its budget beyond the means of taxation (with notoriously wasteful government spending and knuckle-draggingly slow bureaucratic policies). And if you want to examine prisons under some sort of Objectivist, practical, or Capitalist standpoint, then I think you would agree with abolishing (or at least reforming) them as well: they're one of the most inefficient, least-cost-effective methods of production on the face of the planet today.
...Contributing nothing but continually consuming and destroying.
It's not just people caged in prisons who do this. In fact, I think government employees are paid to do this sort of thing every day.
I'll tell you a story about a relative of mine. I recently went to visit some relatives in middle America, and in particular an Uncle of mine who is dying of cancer. The guy is now in his mid-70's, loves America, apple pie and all that; the consummate "conservative." I can't recall how it came up in the conversation, but we were discussing post-9/11 America and the War on Drugs, and I commented on various parallels between the Bush Jr and Obama administrations.
"You know what they ought to do?" says my Uncle. "They need to reintroduce the Peking Plan. Do you know what that was?"
I played dumb. "Tell me about it, please."
"China used to be the...it was over-run with opium. It was everywhere. Then one day, China, the Chinese government, makes an announcement. 'You've got one year, and you have to take all the opium out of here. And after that year, if we catch you, we'll shoot you.' So the year goes by, and opium is almost gone. The government rounds up a few holdouts, shoots them like they said they would, and then almost overnight there was no more opium problem."
So here's a hardcore Republican, US military veteran (stateside during Vietnam), who's supporting a program originally introduced by Communist China...! And he says it was a success! We're talking Mao, for crying out loud...! Man, the irony was thick in that room; I could cut it with a warm butterknife.
Most American citizens will back up any hare-brained scheme, as long as they make someone else do the hard work; this is so much easier than thinking critically. "Kill off all the druggies in America: sure! Send the military in after them; that'll solve the problem." It's a bunch of craven cowards bragging about how awesome they are while hiding behind the most bloated, unnecessary military in the world.
It's pathetic, really. Saying one thing, doing another. Destroying the world with short-sighted plans and money-making schemes, eliminating countless lives in the process. Condemning 'lawless' behaviours in the "proletariat," while doing the same thing behind the scenes on an even more massive scale under the guise of 'national security' or some other ridiculous sound-byte-sized chunk of BS. The US has manufactured its own enemies for the past three decades.
Now, to turn it back to you, NA: "Don't you see any problem with that?"
The US government is a one-trick pony. It sure can blow up stuff, but ask it to do anything else and you're pissing up a rope...you'll just be all wet in the end.
Heh, how's that capitalism working out for you, America? It's funny how Americans criticize socialism so much and yet propose socialist solutions. It is exactly what you get when you want things for cheap, factory owners just move overseas.
America is a 'service economy', meaning that it doesn't really make things. It's heavily focused on things like marketing and branding. You're encouraged to make money in a capitalist world, so marketing will tell half-truths or outright lie if it's legal. If supply exceeds demands, you create demand, by manipulating facts or creating fear - fear of loss, fear of ostracism, etc. You overcharge things to try and turn a profit, much like the perfume industry does
It only goes so far. America/Europe are now focusing more on sales/branding than actually creating quality products. So, people are choosing to buy the quality products instead.
China on the other hand, is going for cheaper, higher quality products. They were originally intending to sell it to the poor, but now that there's a lot of rich people in China, most of their goods are higher quality.
I've never really bought anything American in a really long time, aside from electronics (and even then, only the chips are made in the USA, the rest are made in China). Even Burger King buys all their parts outside the US, although the branding is made in USA. If America were to suddenly collapse one day, it wouldn't affect my quality of life much (other than finding people to buy things I sell).
If you want Americans to start manufacturing more, people should just get into manufacturing. Aim for being engineers instead of movie stars or marketing.
Plus, the West didn't become 'modernized' through hard work. You've colonized your way to success. You've had cheap goods and materials off the backs of other people. Heck, American whites are becoming a minority because of all the people they brought in to do their work for cheap. Now that there's few colonies in the modern world, Europe is economically collapsing, America's falling apart because of its own greed.
The strongest Western economies, like Germany and Australia, are those who have been putting a lot of hard work into actually creating quality products. (Though Australia bases much of its economy on mining)
Disclaimer: Any sarcasm in my posts will not be mentioned as that would ruin the purpose. It is assumed that the reader is intelligent enough to tell the difference between what is sarcasm and what is not.
That was a fantastic read SMR. What your Uncle proposes may have worked back then but do you have any idea how many Americans have taken up arms? (One market that certainly was not affected by the economy.) I would not want to be caught in the crossfire of such a direct and violent solution. What he suggests is basically total anarchy.
Should we just make up a list of the Pros/Cons of Socialism, Democracy and why not Fascism while were at it? As times chance so must the solutions to complicated problems. If certain solutions appear socialist in nature then its out of desperation. It's easy to criticize the US because were such a big target,yet we are responsible for so much of the worlds problems. I firmly agree we shouldn't stick our nose so deep into foreign affairs. But leaving these warmongering dictators unchecked could lead to another Hitler or something like the Holocaust to happen all over again. This dark time in human history is not something we want a repeat of.
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke)
Plus, the West didn't become 'modernized' through hard work. You've colonized your way to success. You've had cheap goods and materials off the backs of other people.
Are we going to forget about the early immigrants which fought so hard for this land? What about the American Revolution against Britain? How about all those hard working women and men which fueled our industry during World War 2? The west didn't modernize through hard work??? Fighting a world war, building a network of highway systems, creating the automobile industry, inventing the microprocessor and sending humanity into space surely counts as hard work in my book. Why didn't the rest of the slack asses in the world achieve any of this? Oh no they were too busy inventing cheap products, forcing hard labor and controlling the lives of their people to ever achieve anything significant. (Yep socialism is totally the answer.) Didn't the lunatic Stalin also invent enemies? So much in fact that he is responsible for the most deaths in World War 2. Many of which were his own people!
In response to your lengthy post SMR: The US in its current state has many flaws but I'd never give up this country or our way of life. The World is a violent and dangerous place and it impossible to make everyone happy. Times are tough but things can never improve until something fails. (out with the old in with the new)
We are witnessing this now, the failure of losing the qualities that kept this country strong in the past. Instead we are left picking up the pieces as a result of other people's bad decisions. The biggest critics of the US are in fact Americans themselves. This is what makes us so strong yet indecisive at times. I doubt an end to our problems is in sight anytime soon but in the end I believe we will prevail or at least I'll die trying.
With out rules, there is no order. With no order, there is no structure. With out structure there are no limits. With out limits there is chaos...
I agree with you NA, in regards to the fact the US is suffering grievous consequences. I'm of the opinion that the US has failed to adapt its business model to the fact the rest of the world is 'catching up' and throwing some of its own weight around. In essence, we're unable to compete due to how we've set up economic (and specifically, manufacturing and production) traditions and habits.
It's particularly telling just how uncompetitive the US manufacturing sector has become by the diverse nature of people lined up to be "human billboards." The following article shows a picture of one:
In other words, its cheaper to hire a jobless dude like this and pay them minimum wage, or something to the tune of "75 bucks a day," than it is to invest in an actual advertising campaign.
Another article talks about how people were "scrambling" to line up as sign-wavers for a tax prep service this past January:
In the span of one week, 22 phone calls and drop-ins came hurrying in - people hungry for some additional income. It might be an indication that the worst of the recession has passed.
Read the full article here, which discusses how the unemployment rate appeared to be dropping in early 2012.
It takes a while to start rolling, but once the "on the street" segment starts there's a lot to learn about the income disparity within the US, and just how ignorant typical US citizens are of it. It's particularly telling that the "blue collar workers" interviewed were the only ones depicted as having a realistic understanding of the situation.
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Edited by NostalgicAlgorithms
As of January 1, 2008, more than 1 in 100 adults in the United States were in prison or jail (guilty or awaiting trial).
. I have repaired a fair few for friends and family. I still have a 28 inch CRT TV (Hitachi, made in Wales) that my parents brought in 93 in my bedroom (after it was retired from the living room a couple of years ago, for my SNES). Still works a treat.
