God is a super natural being he always is and will be. You people keep talking about hell and other people you dislike wont be there and that makes it ok. The last thing on your mind is gonna be about someone its gonna be why didnt I listen. Pete I just stated words from Jesus saying you must be saved to enter heaven.
"jesus loves all" <-- i don't see any conditions there, so why do you have to believe ? that's just silly.. that's like telling a kid you love it, but only if it does the dishes.
Edited by the Author.
Penguin > good question! maybe another god made god, and another one made him, and another etc. etc. etc.
Can this thread be locked up. I see no reason to argue anymore. Sometimes things are meant not to be answered. So why question them when if you get the answer it only makes you question that as well. Either you believe or you dont. Not gonna post here again its pointless.
Re: where did God come from. I don't think he had to be created, he was just something that is inherent in everything. Like another dimension. I mean, where did all the particles that made the Big Bang come from? Why did gravity suddenly exist? I don't know the answers to that (I'm sure some super boffin somewhere in the world has a therory, though) and to be perfectly honest, I don't care. It's not like I'm going to look up in the sky tomorrow and see a planet appear out of nothing.
And as for what happens when I die, how am I supposed to know that? It's all theories, nobody's come back from the dead and told us how nice it is in Heaven, or complain because the ice cubes kept melting in their martinis in Hell. I'm just going to try and live my life to the best, keep morals etc. and if nothing comes out of it at the end, then fine. It's not like I wasn't happy enough in life
Pete: hell doesn't sound like such a bad place. at least there won't be any Christians there.
Hell is what ever you don't want, your greatest fears, everything you hate, Heaven is the opposite.
People have a misconstrued (Hope that's a word) view on heaven and hell. They seem to have that vision of hell being just a bunch of fire sitting around. So, your hell might be sitting locked up in a room being badgered by christians and with nothing you can do about it.
It's fine and dandy if you want to believe that, so go ahead. You obviously don't care enough, and if we keep this up, Yami's gonna cry.
Pete Nattress Cheesy Bits img src/uploads/sccheesegif
Registered 23/09/2002
Points 4811
4th August, 2004 at 19:24:11 -
kind of labouring the point anyway, since i don't believe in heaven or hell. but by your logic, christians DO go to hell! and i like how you assume you're right as well. what if christianity is the wrong religion after all!? allah may not be as forgiving as your god.
A man dies and finds out he's in hell
Someone walks up to him and asks whats wrong?
The man say well im in hell
The guy replies its okay here do you like gambling?
The man says aw yes I love gambling
The guy replies then your gonna like mondays, because we gamble all day
The man goes oh thats great
The guy replies do you like smoking? Then your gonna like tuesdays
The man says aw man its not that bad here
The guy replies if like drugs? Then your gonna like wednesdays
The man starts to get excited
The guy replies do you like getting drunk because we drink til we throw up and drink some more on thursedays
The man says Wow this place is great
The guy continued with smokin weed on fridays and sniffing crack on saturdays
THEN finaly the guy ask the man if he was gay
The man replies well no
Then your not gonna like sundays
Gilg:
Say what you want about it, but this event actually happend. Even if you aren't christian, look at all other text and they all have a flood story. Even some Native American writings and African and all sorts of stuff. Pretty well known for a fairy tale huh?
As I said, the flood story in the bible is a combination of two earlier flood myths. There was never any catastrphic earth-covering flood. There is a multitude of evidence (and I'm talking about a LOT) that disproves this possibility. The fish thing is one of them; go back and actually read my post this time. I'm happy to supply more if need be.
Compare these things to humans. We call different colors and styles species of fish, but then we have the same thing in humans. Blacks, Whites, Asians, Red Heads, Blonds.
There's a difference between breeds and species, as I said. Species is the lowest division of the orders of classification. Generally, different species are either incapable or generally unable to interbreed.
Breeds are different groups within a species; the term is very informal. While yes, there are different types of humans, we are all of the same species. I can't believe you even tried to argue this point.
Eviscerator:
i believe that if i eventually end up having to face up to god, he'll appreciate the fact that i spent my life trying to be a good person and fair to others, and his creations (i call them his creations cuz if i was facing up to him, that would mean he exists) more than how much i believed in him. Besides, if god is such a loving person (Jesus supposedly loves us all, so god must do so too), he would forgive me for not believing in him.
Yami:
... Thats the most stupid thing Ive ever heard of. Obviously you nothing of hell.
What's the difference between that and Pascal's Wager, which you yourself suggested? At least Eviscerator is listening to his own logic rather than acting out of fear. There are multiple religions, and all of them claim to have contact with a god or gods. They all have plenty of dogma, there's nothing that discriminates christianity over any of the others. For your faith to be correct, so too must all the others: a single diety might choose to appear to different people in different ways according to their circumstance and culture. Dogma therefore has no relevance, and only the deprecation of our own 'god-given' faculties would be a sin. The most anyone can do is what they think is right, because plenty of people are ready to tell them they're wrong, no matter who you are.
(Of course Yami, sometimes people are genuinely wrong)
"You have more of a chance of a torando going through a junkyard and making a perfectly constructed airplane than of that happening."
I can't tell if Pete is quoting the thread or somewhere else, but I feel like answering this anyway so people don't get the wrong idea.
I won't bother investing any time though, here's a bottled response:
Order doesn't spontaneously form from disorder. A tornado passing through a junkyard would never assemble a 747.
Source:
Hoyle, Fred, 1983. The Intelligent Universe. New York: Holt, Rinehart and Winston, pp. 18-19.
Response:
1. This claim is irrelevant to the theory of evolution itself, since evolution does not occur via assembly from individual parts, but rather via selective gradual modifications to existing structures. Order can and does result from such evolutionary processes.
2. Hoyle applied his analogy to abiogenesis, where it is more applicable. However, the general principle behind it is wrong. Order arises spontaneously from disorder all the time. The tornado itself is an example of order arising spontaneously. Something as complicated as people would not arise spontaneously from raw chemicals, but there is no reason to believe that something as simple as a self-replicating molecule could not form thus. From there, evolution can produce more and more complexity.
Gilg:
Hell is what ever you don't want, your greatest fears, everything you hate, Heaven is the opposite.
People have a misconstrued (Hope that's a word) view on heaven and hell. They seem to have that vision of hell being just a bunch of fire sitting around. So, your hell might be sitting locked up in a room being badgered by christians and with nothing you can do about it.
Actually, there's a pretty specific definition of heaven and hell in the latin bible (like, pre-king-james-mangling). 'Hell' means 'hole'. According to the bible, when peopole die, they just hang around in the ground, their spirits don't go flying off to heaven or whatever. When god's kingdom descends after the apocalypse, all the nice people are resurrected so they can sit around in heaven and masturbate all day or whatever you're supposed to do there. All the naughty people stay in the ground.
I can only tell you whats right. I cant force you to believe in God if you dont. If you deny God he will surely deny you to his kingdom. There are actualy documents that everything in the bible happened. Scientist have proven that Jesus and God are real. If you dont believe me, but you will if a scientist says it. Then look it up, I will pray that you change your mind all of you that disagree with my words. Im not perfect but thank god my lord Jesus is!
even if there is proof that jesus existed, that doesn't mean there was anything godly surrounding him. nobody knows if the bible is true or not, and since it was written a few millenia ago, they never will.
"Say you're hanging from a huge cliff at the top of mt. everest and a guy comes along and says he'll save you, and proceeds to throw religious pamphlets at you while simultaniously giving a sermon." - Dustin G
LOL @ Radix's last comment. I thought masturbation was frowned upon by Catholicism?
Scientists have NOT proven that Jesus is real - they've calculated a probability of him existing (I think it was about 300 to 1? Although I'm probably quite wrong there). And we don't believe stuff if a scientist says it - there are plenty of stories where scientists have said some wild and outrageous stuff, some believed, some not. Often scientists who made a very plausible and very true theory were ignored because they didn't follow what was believed at the time (Mendel and his genetics theory springs to mind). But no scientists that I know about have ever proved the existence of God with any actual evidence, so perhaps you should stop being so desperate in trying to win the argument and/or change our minds.
Radix: As I said, the flood story in the bible is a combination of two earlier flood myths. There was never any catastrphic earth-covering flood. There is a multitude of evidence (and I'm talking about a LOT) that disproves this possibility. The fish thing is one of them; go back and actually read my post this time. I'm happy to supply more if need be.
Oh sorry I didn't read that first part, my bad.
But the fish part is irrelevant. Fish obviously live all over the world, and including in that time. So, if fish can swim, why take them? Same as sharks, shrimp and all that stuff. So therefore, you are taking the animal thing way too literaly.
Radix: There's a difference between breeds and species, as I said. Species is the lowest division of the orders of classification. Generally, different species are either incapable or generally unable to interbreed.
Breeds are different groups within a species; the term is very informal. While yes, there are different types of humans, we are all of the same species. I can't believe you even tried to argue this point.
If we aren't different species, then what are we? We obviously aren't different breeds, for the fact that we didn't breed to get black and white. If you can't believe that I'm arguing this point, why are we even arguing at all?
Advertisement
Edited by the Author.
