Welcome to the community project forums! It is here that we will be discussing the many broad and individual aspects of the creation of this game. Our first discussion will be right here, and that will pertain to the genre of game. What kind of game do you want to make or play? RPG, action, sports? Give your ideas here, and once we get a genre everyone likes, we'll move on to the next part of discussion. This is why this site needs to have poll support.
Maybe a combination of platform and topdown parts. One part of the game is topdown with more of the rpg elements and another sideview with the platform element, these parts are then varied with some added minigames perhaps.
Homemade Game's idea sounds good, I love those forts of games. But the programming for an RPG is pretty though, I don't know if a group of people could pull it off. But I'd still love to contribute someway or some how.
Whatever it is, it should have lotsa characters! Make a template and let the community go nuts. Nothing like the vanity of having your own character in a game to draw community interest.
Action RPG of the top down or platformer variety, or a fighting game has my vote.
I would like to be apart of the project, but I'm sure other people could code better than me, but I would like to contribute my abilities in drawing cutsie sprites like from my game Piki.
Good discussion everyone! I feel like we're off to a pretty good start. Anyway, some of you are jumping ahead of the gun. Not entirely, but kinda. What we need to establish right now is the game's genre. Genre's are the game's style, like fighting and RPG, which were both mentioned. Others would include sports, puzzle, action, adventure, racing, simulation, etc.
Once we decide on a genre, we'll decide on type (like top-down or side-scrolling), then themes, story, and characters, and after that we'll begin talking about programming, graphics, and sound.
I am thinking a game like metal slug, but it doesn't need to have the same art style. It would be cool if there was a deep or somewhat deep weapon customization in the game to seperate it from common 2d shooters. And if the people on here can comeup with a decent story that would be great too. I would like to contribute to this project so if you want a tester or any low skilled task done i would like to help because im not too good at coding and im a bad artist.
I want a super-duber action RPG with 100 different characters and 200 different endings. It took less then 3 seconds to type that, but how long would it take to make something like that?
I personally think if you want to finish this game it has to be as simple to program as possable. That being said, while I'd prefer an action rpg, I think some form of action game is the best way to go.
I agree with gamemaker2010, a game with weapon customization would be cool. I vote for a platform genre, then a mixture of action, with RPG elements like weapon customization. Also, I would love to write a storyline for the game, but I first need to know what the community thinks a good based for the storyline would be. Then I'd be happy to write it!
I don't think we can just go ahead and pick a genre we like and hope people agree. We should make what we can realistically achieve, and how we can best fit content produced by members of a range of skill level, from beginners to veterans, and people with varying amounts of free time to work on the project.
I'd love to see this really get off the ground, and I'm sure with the right approach we can really make something great. Brainstorming and the picking most favored ideas doesn't seem like the right approach to me.
There will potentially be a LOT of people working on this, which allows for a vast amount of pure Content. I'm guessing there would be a global engine that would allow content to be added quickly and easily. We basically have no limit to how many characters, levels, items etc. there will be in the game - all they'd need is graphics, sound, and a little behavior code to work with the global engine (even if it's as basic as stats like strength and speed). Even Story can be broken up in the variety of areas, so that people who like to create storylines can have their individual work represented - sub-stories within the main storyline.
Weapon customization works pretty good with this - many people creating different shot types, methods of firing, crazy weapon parts - so I think we're already on the right track. Would also allow for a large number of player characters, if only different heads or space ship sprites.
Open exploration would be a good aspect to have, too, since we'll have a lot of people contributing to different areas and different enemies and items in the areas. Perhaps a linear branching progression, if not completely open. Or at least lots of secret areas and routes.
Personally, I see a Platformer with customizable characters, and hundreds of abilities to choose from, executed in a style akin to the Smash bros. series (attack + up = upwards attack ability, for example). This allows for a lot of different types of content (particularly the variety of unique abilities designed by the community), and we'd end up with a pretty deep game that always presents something different. There's also a great opportunity for different game modes - more content in a very different way, that also allows a lot of integrated sub-genres.
Maybe that's a little too detailed, but I think it would work with the main strengths of having a community working together on a project. Having a good reason behind the genre we pick is key to the game's popularity with the community - how much interest it generates, therefore how many people will come to help rather than shrug it off as an attempt that will surely fail.
I hope I've been able to make some good points, and haven't been just rambling.
"Personally, I see a Platformer with customizable characters, and hundreds of abilities to choose from, executed in a style akin to the Smash bros. series (attack + up = upwards attack ability, for example). This allows for a lot of different types of content (particularly the variety of unique abilities designed by the community), and we'd end up with a pretty deep game that always presents something different. There's also a great opportunity for different game modes - more content in a very different way, that also allows a lot of integrated sub-genres."
I personally think that this is a terrible approach to take. Regardless if this project includes multiplayer or not, every character would need to be balanced. Otherwise, people will find the one that's most overpowering and just breeze through the game. Balancing takes a lot of time to do. Not only will work have to be done on all of the characters to make them generally equal, but the levels would have to be designed so that every character's special traits would make them viable choices. For example, having a fat character that can roll into a wrecking ball down a slope wouldn't be viable if there aren't any sections with slopes to roll down (and presumably enemies to clobber). Likewise, such a section would almost require there to be another solution.
I also think that since Gamemaker's post, everyone's starting to get ahead of themselves with their thinking. But it also seems like the discussion on genre is done; Nearly everyone has expressed interest in an action-oriented platforming (side-scrolling) game, as well as in an RPG game. Now, if we go with the popular vote, we're looking at a side-scrolling action game with RPG elements, not an action RPG side-scroller. Which is me getting ahead of myself with my thinking.
Yes, Adam Phant, you are right. People are jumping the gun, we do seem to have reached a general consensus, and that customization does possibly pose a problem. I said it earler that people are going a bit far with the initial ideas, as the original purpose was to simply come up with a genre. Such development of ideas is important, but not what we are doing right now. Save those ideas for the later discussions.
Adam, you seem pretty interested/invested in this project. That's good! Just the kind of member we need, but of course you did want to start one of these yourself.
So the customization poses a problem unless we put limits on such things, like a certain amount of points that one can use as stats, or points that certain skills are worth, and one can only give skills and stats until they run out of points.
But we leave that until later. Our general consensus, as Adam Phant said, is right now a side-scrolling action game with RPG elements. Anyone looking to disagree with this can comment until sometime tomorrow, when I shall return and confirm the genre.
All right then, it looks like everyone is okay with the idea of a side-scrolling action game with RPG elements. So that will be our official genre now. Yay!
Next order of business is to discuss style, such as side-scrolling, top-down, isometric, etc. The side-scrolling aspect has already been determined, so camera angle is done now. This part of the discussion will primarily concern itself with things like pacing (how fast the game moves), level scope (short small levels or big long levels), and other particular elements. If that makes any sense.
After this part is done, we will move on to themes (like dark, speedy, joyous, colorful, gritty, explosive, interactive, etc.) features and design (like on-rails, flying, saving and loading options, online, multiplayer, etc.), then story, graphics, sound, and programming. But not now! Please keep to talking about style.
I think a moderate pacing would be ideal. If on your first play through it takes you 4-6 hours to go from start to finish, then that's a good pace. If it's your 100th playthrough and you can clear the game in 30-60 minutes, then that's also a good pace. (If anyone plays a Klik game more than twice. )
If it takes more than 2 hours just to burn through the game, then it's either too big or too slow; Such a pacing would mean your first playthrough could take 8-10 hours, and as such might be considered time padding.
The good pacing (4-6hr/30-60min) would be facilitated by good level design, not how big or small a level is. A huge level could be found rather short if it's designed poorly, just as a short level could be found rather long.
Considering the genre of game, the optimal level scope should probably be huge levels, or areas. Metroid games and newer Castlevania titles, for example, make use of areas. Basically a series of interconnected levels with the same unifying theme. Whereas a game like Megaman uses just levels, with one theme for each level and not some sprawling expanse.
Personally, I think it'd be really interesting to combine the two ideas, but this is probably getting ahead of the discussion. Have a handful of areas, 4-6 of them, and within them have 2-4 "levels." Each area would have a starter level, and you could travel between the "starting point" of those levels to a central hub. This hub would basically act as a "level select" level, where as you progress you can jump to the other levels at will. Or if you're feeling adventurous, you could skip the hub and just travel between levels and/or areas on your own, and explore the in-between zones. For example, you have Area A, and Area B. You could use the hub to get from A to B, or you could explore and find a path from A to B (and maybe pick-up some goodies along the way, but that's getting ahead of discussion again.)
I thinking about something more RPG and less action... like zelda or something, theres the action of kiling the enemies, but theres also lots of exploration, item-using and puzzle solving
So talking about the pacing, the game could have some big areas with enemies, where you can fight and fight and fight... then you find yourself in front of a locked door and you need to find the key, so you go exploring (some enemies on the way)
So i think there should be just one big level, or small connected levels, with a world map
im thinking a slow pace would be nice. A good way to slow the pace that i never really have seen in many games is to make the kills challenging and rewarding. Dont just fly hrough the level killing hundreds of enemies if we can find a way to stretch out individual battles the would be awesome because kills will be rewarding.
Stretching out battles isn't the best idea. That would mean having to have less enemies total, otherwise combat will be a chore instead of fun. It could very well become frustrating. "Ugh, ANOTHER enemy? I just want to do something other than fight." The reward wouldn't be how you go about killing enemies, but just that you don't have to fight anymore. If you'd rather not spend 15 minutes (exaggeration) fighting one enemy, then you'd sooner just stop playing than have to grind through yet another encounter.
Also, stretching out battles will just pad the game time. Might as well just have flat stretches of hallways that take hours to get to the end. No enemies, no interesting changes to the flow, just hours of holding an arrow key down. That way, the game can boast 40 hours of "gameplay"!
Adam, i never said that all there is to do in the game is fight and I meant that i would like a slow pace and offered a way to slow the pace by making individual battles more challenging instead of easily killing tons of enemies. For example left 4 dead is a great game but you can take on 15 zombies with no worries by emptying a clip or two of the uzi into all of them. With resident evil 5 if you are up against 15 zombies at a time you better have a great weapon or else you run(At least i would). That is what i meant by making individual battles more rewarding, this sounds cliche but i tred to say quality of fights over quantity of fights.
I know what you were saying. But you can't make an individual battle feel rewarding unless you feel like you've accomplished something. Likewise, you can't stretch these battles without decreasing the number of them, otherwise it'll feel like all you do is fight stuff. And then at that point you run the risk of these battles feeling so out of place that they wouldn't be fun to take part in; Then the question of "why bother having fights at all?" can be raised.
Adam Phant: "I also think that since Gamemaker's post, everyone's starting to get ahead of themselves with their thinking." >_> Riiiight. So no one was 'getting ahead of themselfs' before Gamemaker's post, right? You did realize I was being sarcastic in my last post right?
To everyone else, I don't think you understood the point I was trying to make. I love anything RPG related, but including such elements in the game will greatly slow down the progress. Now maybe I'm at fault, because I assumed this game was one that was going to be finished and released in the near future. The more complex you make this game, the greater (in theory) it could be. However, the more complex you make it, the longer it's going to take to finish. Is this something anyone stopped to consider? That's why I suggested making an action game. So I guess suggesting to make a game that could actually be finished quickly is 'getting ahead of myself', right Phant?
Now, Mr. Lambert, if you had meant this to be a long term community project, that's cool. I have nothing against that. A side-scrolling action game with RPG elements sounds like a game I'd like to play. However, my question for you is what kind of time frame did you envision when you started the poject? Now don't get me wrong, I'm interested in helping. However, it might be helpful to have a projected release date.
"Is this something anyone stopped to consider? That's why I suggested making an action game. So I guess suggesting to make a game that could actually be finished quickly is 'getting ahead of myself', right Phant? "
I've thought about that. That's ultimately why I'm against Gamemaker's idea of padding fights to make them rewarding. A complex fight that's interesting takes time to make. It's also why I'm in favour of an action/platforming game, because they're easy to make; That's also why I jumped the gun on saying what it looks like the genre would be, to help speed things along towards production. I only mentioned RPG elements because that can be left up to interpretation, and as such could easily be cut or simplified.
I said people were getting ahead of themselves because they were just throwing ideas out there without apparent regard to the bigger picture. It's easier to cull these ideas when they're being discussed. There's less to cull when people are focused, too. Now, while I'm not the one who has to make the call of what gets culled or not, I'm at least going to try making it easy for something to be culled through discussion. (I'm not the one to make the cull!)
Have any of you ever played Zeliard?
I'm only mentioning it because it's one of my favourite games, and it sounds like the kind of thing many of you guys are talking about making.
It's basically an action platformer with RPG elements, such as: levelling up, learning new magic, buying better weapons/armor/items, a storyline, NPCs to talk to, towns & shops, etc.
I'm not suggesting a remake, but it would not be unrealistic to attempt something similar in MMF - quite easy in fact, and do-able within a reasonable timeframe.
Good, good. People, you're all doing fine, but you're not talking enough about the style thing. Let me give examples of things people might say. Stuff in the vein of what Sketchy said, as he provided an example of what he's thinking (albeit not so much what he thinks should be in this project as much as it was what he thinks we're coming up with). Adam Phant also did well, as he actually gave pacing ideas, and elaboration on how that pacing could work (with his areas idea).
Look at the Metal Slug games. Those would be of a gritty, combat-heavy war style. Then look at Noitu Love 2 or The Legend of Princess, fast-paced colorful action run 'n gun style. These are the kinds of things we're looking for. Once we establish a style, we'll be able to decide on story, engine, graphics, and sound that meet that style, work with that style, and complement that style.
@ Gamemaker: You said to make the battles more rewarding. How? Does this mean making players want to experience battle (as in, some sort of interactive element that makes it exciting, like on-screen prompts for button combos or timed button presses that activate dodges, parries, and such) or a result of battle that entices players to battle to get something (like rare items, coins, such as those)? We could also make the battles more visually appealing and engaging to keep people from growing tired of battling, such as various battle styles or requirements.
@ Adam Phant: Padding battle is indeed a bad idea, people will grow tired and leave the game before they get to experience other elements of the game, or will dislike the game more than they would.
@ Tetsuya: The project will take as long as it takes to complete, and the timeframe depends on how quickly people work, how many people work, the initial quality of each piece of work, and experience of the people in the areas they decide to work (when we get that far). However, this was being thought to be relatively long-term, maybe six months at the very least, around a year, as I doubt we could work so fast. Also, the RPG elements don't have to be extensive; Super Paper Mario only included HP, Level Ups, and Attack Stats. We could simply include a basic level-up system where you get points from fighting, quests, and other things, then level up and improve whatever stats you think will make the game easier. A basic but thorough weapon customization system (like that of Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn or Path of Radiance) could be simple and nice as well. As for your projected release date, hmm... Summer 2010.
@ Matthew Wiese: Yes, kinda. It's more than just a platformer with a battle system, as that wouldn't be the only RPG element. It would also be part adventure, as that could make the game more deep and entertaining. Give it better replay value.
@ AilsArk: Puzzles, explorations, and item-usage (ala Zelda, as you said) are more adventure than RPG. Sorry, just a semantics thing. But yes, an adventure element would be nice, and is sort-of implied by the RPG elements.
Maybe I should just post more often, but I don't want to interrupt discussions, and I don't want this thread to be full of comments by me.
@Jon Lambert: That sounds like a good timeframe to create a more complex game. Which is a good thing, of course. Now I have a new question for you; did you intend for anyone to contribute media? Or where we going to have a set group of people do each task. Also, take care not to be too cocky. Until there is something released that is playable, this project is no different from the past failed attemps. But I have hope this time we can make it work.
I intended to allow anyone to contribute media, but there will also be groups that moderate the content contributed by everyone. So, for graphics, there would be a graphics leader and any number of graphics assistants that the graphics leader chooses, and the leader's job would be to comment on and help people with their graphics submissions, as well as give lessons so that more people will have the capacity to make and submit graphics. Similar procedures would be followed for programmings, sound, and story. I'll make an outline of project procedures once we get through this part of the discussion, as I don't want to be making updates every day and stealing the spotlight from other projects that actually have tangible material.
Cocky? Is this about me saying good job all the time? I just thought it was positive reinforcement, but, okay. I'll stop doing that so often.
Why not use the best of both Platformer and RPG/adventure and go in a Zelda 2 for the NES kinda style?
You know, a map to travel on with random battles that pop up, but the battles and castle areas are 2d platforming.
Then get someone to make a good platforming engine, a good map engine, and the best character sprites, and piece them together on an example, preferably in TGF1 so everyone will access the files and participate.
Next, everyone should make their own area using the platform engine and map engine which were already made.
The difficult part is always getting a solid foundation for everything else to be stacked upon.
Note: .gam files load into MMF but .cca and .mfa do not load into TGF.
In this manner, each area could have a very distinct style all its own, without clashing, and having a big group of people will become a big plus instead of a detriment that needs to be worked around.
As for making battles rewarding, how about making it so there are lots of bosses and mini-bosses and after you defeat one, it adds something to the attack for mini-bosses (take a look at how the weapon in King of Dragons for SNES changes as you travel through levels), and adds a new attack to use for the big bosses. Attack style could be changed via a menu to keep it to a few buttons during battle (one button opens the attacks menu, and another button to quickly pick the attack, and same thing with the attack style menu).
Just a few ideas that could make things go a little more smoothly.
Blood of the Ancient One, Seen only as Shadow, Faster than Lightning, Fierce as the Greatest Dragon, Nearly Invisible, Floating in a Dream, Entered through the Demon Door, Destroyer of Evil in a Realm with a Red Sky Scarred, Who could I be ?
Great Idea for MBK, allowing everyone to freely use the Platform/Map engine to create their own levels in great! So you don't have to tell one person what you want, and only they add it. So when all the levels are done, we copy pasta all the frames into one game. Also, I would like to suggest using a cute, fasted paced fun style, because I'm sure many more people would be able to create graphics for that type of a game, rather than complex MS style sprites.
I agree with most of what MBK and Matt Wiese said.
Having an overworld between levels could be cool, but I don't like the idea of random encounters, and I personally thought Zelda II was a terrible game. Seriously though, I think everyone should at least play Zeliard - it's a really good game (I'm going to shut up about it now).
I've got some ideas that I think could tie this project together.
First, my idea for the style. A grim, though cartoony/vibrant game. Rather, a game with a deep or somewhat complex plot, with several themes working togeth to create a really compelling narrative. The art style would ironically contradict that, being more vibrant and colourful than it should be. The art style would distract you from the plot, because you'd be asking yourself things like, "How can something go wrong in a such a cute world!?"
The storyline could be one of the driving motives to keep the player going at first, and subsequent playthroughs. The art style would eye-catching to the people who think graphics are everything, but they wouldn't be so overdone that it always looks too busy (like NL2).
I think this style would fit a steampunk or some other kind of sci-fi/fantasy theme. I prefer steampunk because it gives you a means to over-generalize how everything works, without having to go into very much detail about it. It also means that levels could be detailed with useless doodads that would make them look visually appealing. It's also much easier to switch to another theme from steampunk, as you have sci-fi and fantasy elements that you can break off to.
Now, keeping in line with the action platformer with RPG, it could have very simple RPG mechanics. This next idea is actually just a rehash of Neuro's idea that I originally disagreed with; Multiple playable characters. Just a handful of them, 2-4 at most. They would use the Smash Bros system of moving and combat, where it's the same controls with different abilities. However, every character would have the same "stats;" The all move and attack the same way, but it's their special abilities that will set them apart.
These abilities could be "customized" in a way that's very RPG-ish: You gain experience and spend it on unlocking a new ability combo, or upgrading them. If needed, the experience points could be scrapped entirely and you would get these upgrades from defeating the bosses. Getting ability upgrades exclusively from bosses compliments the hub-based level design idea I posted earlier: How you get to customize your upgrades would be totally dependent on where you start and which area you attempt first.
Multiple characters also makes for a way to make battles feel rewarding. Instead of aiming to create rewarding battles for each character and giving a tangible item, you reward the player with the simplest feeling of all: Satisifaction. By having multiple characters, you leave it possible to turn the characters you didn't pick into rivals (or have one an ally if you don't want to outright dismiss the possibility of co-op). The best way to reward the player is by throwing a one-time event at them, like a battle with these rival characters. If you lose, then you're left with the feeling that you chose poorly. If you win, then you're left with the feeling that you made the right decision. Of course the inherent problem of coding these fights still exists, but it really would be no different than coding a boss fight.
I agree with Sketchy, random encounters with a platform game is really weird. I kind of agree with Adam, though steampunk could still be hard to draw for some people.
haha that piki game was pretty fun but i was awful at it/ my high score was 11. anyways i think that we could use the bright colors but the sprites could be a little bit more advanced
From Adam Phant: moderate pacing--first play through it takes you 4-6 hours to go from start to finish, then that's a good pace.--100th playthrough and you can clear the game in 30-60 minutes--optimal level scope should probably be huge levels, or areas--Have a handful of areas, 4-6 of them, and within them have 2-4 "levels." Each area would have a starter level, and you could travel between the "starting point" of those levels to a central hub. This hub would basically act as a "level select" level, where as you progress you can jump to the other levels at will. Or if you're feeling adventurous, you could skip the hub and just travel between levels and/or areas on your own, and explore the in-between zones. For example, you have Area A, and Area B. You could use the hub to get from A to B, or you could explore and find a path from A to B (and maybe pick-up some goodies along the way, but that's getting ahead of discussion again.)--grim, though cartoony/vibrant game--deep or somewhat complex plot, with several themes working togeth to create a really compelling narrative--art style would ironically contradict that, being more vibrant and colourful than it should be. The art style would distract you from the plot, because you'd be asking yourself things like, "How can something go wrong in a such a cute world!?"--steampunk-- Multiple playable characters. Just a handful of them, 2-4 at most. They would use the Smash Bros system of moving and combat, where it's the same controls with different abilities. However, every character would have the same "stats;" The all move and attack the same way, but it's their special abilities that will set them apart.
From AilsArk: something more RPG and less action--So talking about the pacing, the game could have some big areas with enemies, where you can fight and fight and fight... then you find yourself in front of a locked door and you need to find the key, so you go exploring (some enemies on the way)
So i think there should be just one big level, or small connected levels, with a world map
From Gamemaker 2010: slow pace would be nice--quality of fights over quantity of fights
From Sketchy: Zeliard--I don't like the idea of random encounters--I think everyone should at least play Zeliard - it's a really good game
From MBK: Zelda 2 for the NES kinda style?--You know, a map to travel on with random battles that pop up, but the battles and castle areas are 2d platforming.--Then get someone to make a good platforming engine, a good map engine, and the best character sprites, and piece them together on an example, preferably in TGF1 so everyone will access the files and participate.--As for making battles rewarding, how about making it so there are lots of bosses and mini-bosses and after you defeat one, it adds something to the attack for mini-bosses (take a look at how the weapon in King of Dragons for SNES changes as you travel through levels), and adds a new attack to use for the big bosses. Attack style could be changed via a menu to keep it to a few buttons during battle (one button opens the attacks menu, and another button to quickly pick the attack, and same thing with the attack style menu).--
From Matthew Wiese: Also, I would like to suggest using a cute, fasted paced fun style, because I'm sure many more people would be able to create graphics for that type of a game, rather than complex MS style sprites.
Now let's see, from examining these different styles, it seems to me that a good way to combine them would be as so: Leisurely pace-one can move through at a moderate pace if they want, but if they feel like taking it slowly, the plot won't be so restricting as to force them to continue. You should be able to avoid battles if you want to. A hub world leading to other worlds, may or may not be a map, and you can get to other worlds through the hub or by following a path from one world to the next (interconnected worlds). Steampunk style, but with cute, fun, colorful, vibrant colors to contrast the deep, grim, complex plot. Multiple playable characters with similar stats and controls but upgradeable and specific abilities, either upgrade through experience points or bosses. Build the game in such a way that people with any click product will be able to make levels and worlds.
Anyone have anything against that? Anything to add? Any comments whatsoever? Voice your agreement or disagreement with this style now, because if you don't, then we'll be moving on to features, programming, graphics, story, and sound! Yippee!
I used to watch "Watercolor Challenge" a lot when I was younger. The word "vibrant" was always used by the judges as a euphimism for "shit"
I am also not familiar with "steampunk". Sounds like it ought to be a low-tech version of "cyberpunk"?
As Neuro says, neon could work - his "Plasma Warrior" game was awesome.
Steampunk is pretty much cyberpunk, yeah. Only everything is powered by steam. Most contraptions and machines look like they're built out of brass, copper, and wood; Iron and steel being too heavy would typically be left for things of heavier duty nature, like machine guns and tanks. Stylistically, steampunk designs seem to have an art deco look to them.
Do a Google search for steampunk and you should get some ideas.
The word vibrant always conjures an abstract picture with bright, glowing colors in my mind, so I thought... mixed with a technological theme, neon.
I probably mixed up steampunk with cyberpunk, though. Neon doesn't seem very steampunky, though it could work if very subtle. Maybe like... glass pipes with... lava flowing through them... or something Take the steampunk style and make it our own, with lots of crazy fantasy technology. If you take the fact that most everything in steampunk is powered by steam, and we change that to being powered by, for example, lava, then we have a lot of basis for different graphics and gameplay elements. Lava is usually associated with instant death, but as the game progresses the equipment and abilities you obtain would help you avoid and resist it, maybe even turn it to your advantage.
These are just little ideas to stimulate ideas and inspire some thought, I'm not really making any concrete suggestions. Anything could work for an appealing style, but maybe some thinking ahead with what gameplay opportunities the style opens up is a good idea.
When I was younger, I played an AMAZING RPG, though comparitively old now, you could build guns out of basic parts, and more advanced parts would make better weapons. Like, if you have rusty parts, the weapon would make a weapon of that type, only rusty, which in turn its accuaryc etc. would be bad. But if you could have had the basic parts, plus other special parts, would make a special version of the gun.
Here are some cool examples of cool steampunk weapons I found. And others.
Rusty pistol (like the rifle below, this was made to be used)
So does this mean that everyone agrees with the idea of?:
Leisurely pace-one can move through at a moderate pace if they want, but if they feel like taking it slowly, the plot won't be so restricting as to force them to continue. You should be able to avoid battles if you want to. A hub world leading to other worlds, may or may not be a map, and you can get to other worlds through the hub or by following a path from one world to the next (interconnected worlds). Steampunk style, but with cute, fun, colorful, vibrant colors to contrast the deep, grim, complex plot. Multiple playable characters with similar stats and controls but upgradeable and specific abilities, either upgrade through experience points or bosses. Build the game in such a way that people with any click product will be able to make levels and worlds.
Because if it does, them we'll get to work on features, programming, graphics, sound, and story.
Progress is a good thing, I guess.
I forgot that I'm supposed to be acting less cocky.
I agree with it. But I would like to suggest the only way to upgrade may be by destroying a boss in a quick time. If you beat it quicker, you get more exp points.
"So does this mean that everyone agrees with the idea of?:
Leisurely pace-one can move through at a moderate pace if they want, but if they feel like taking it slowly, the plot won't be so restricting as to force them to continue. You should be able to avoid battles if you want to. A hub world leading to other worlds, may or may not be a map, and you can get to other worlds through the hub or by following a path from one world to the next (interconnected worlds). Steampunk style, but with cute, fun, colorful, vibrant colors to contrast the deep, grim, complex plot. Multiple playable characters with similar stats and controls but upgradeable and specific abilities, either upgrade through experience points or bosses. Build the game in such a way that people with any click product will be able to make levels and worlds."
Sounds like a good game, I agree.
"But I would like to suggest the only way to upgrade may be by destroying a boss in a quick time. If you beat it quicker, you get more exp points."
Good idea. Maybe the exp points could be "purchase points", and you could use them to buy new styles and abilities after boss battles (learn new ability), in Dojos (training for a combo move), in weapon shops (purchase weapons) and in clothing shops (new clothing that changes the style of current attack used)
Or something along those lines.
I think it should be just one of the ways though, not the "only" way to gain in experience points. If you do smart things during the battle, like use the environment against the enemy (throw barrels, snowballs, knock down trees, make the enemy fall off a cliff, cause a chandelier to fall, throw enemy through a wall, or whatever else), change fighting style several times during the fight, or win without taking damage, it could give extra exp points.
What gives extra exp points could be determined by the creator of the area. I think the base code for the way exp is gained should be determined by both time, health, mana, and sp though, not just time.
Blood of the Ancient One, Seen only as Shadow, Faster than Lightning, Fierce as the Greatest Dragon, Nearly Invisible, Floating in a Dream, Entered through the Demon Door, Destroyer of Evil in a Realm with a Red Sky Scarred, Who could I be ?
I like a lot of those ideas, MBK, particularly more points for handling combat in unique ways. Hitting an enemy with a barrel or causing things to fall on their heads would give bonus points, and could potentially be greatly increase through combo attacks - either with hits in quick succession or the same attack hitting multiple times (skimming rocks over enemies heads could almost be a game within the game ;D).
All this would emphasize using the environment against the enemy, as opposed to head-on attacking. I'm not sure if this is a good way to go, but it would work very well with the steampunk theme, lots of weird technology to pull apart/kick/activate and turn into a weapon (though not literally). It gives a lot of opportunity for interesting abilities, too, with secondary functions like pulling items towards you or being able to move heavy objects, or just interacting with objects from a distance.
One thing I don't quite agree on is bosses giving more points if you defeat them faster. I guess it would be about how you balance the situation. Some abilities might be better at taking down a boss than others, so being stuck with a bad ability would be frustrating and not rewarding. Maybe just a bonus par-time giving some extra points, but penalizing the player for taking too long seems like a bad choice to me, especially when we want a more relaxed, exploratory pace to the game.
"Good idea. Maybe the exp points could be "purchase points", and you could use them to buy new styles and abilities after boss battles (learn new ability), in Dojos (training for a combo move), in weapon shops (purchase weapons) and in clothing shops (new clothing that changes the style of current attack used)
Or something along those lines. "
Time would be a factor here. It would take a lot of time to code all the possible permutations to make something like this work. Not to mention animating all that extra stuff and designing how it would all work.
I agree with Neuro's point on exp from bosses. Having a game that lets you go at your own pace and then effectively punishing you for it would send mixed signals.
I disagree with awarding exp from defeating enemies and using the environment against them. Although awarding the player for thinking outside the box is a great idea, it'd make getting upgrades really easy. Should the player be maxed out before they even fight the first boss? To compensate, gains could be reduced. Would the player have any upgrades before fighting the first boss? There'd be a lot of balance involved to make sure that all players have the same general progression curve. Then at the same time, work would have to be done to make sure that you aren't overpowered before a certain point. A greater time investment in your character should not entitle the character to be powerful. Progressing through the game and defeating bosses should award power-ups, as well as the player's natural skill.
Simply put, it'd be much simpler if there were tokens used to upgrade abilities. These tokens would effectively be treated as power-ups. They could occasionally be found out in the open for easy pickings, or tucked away in some far off corner of a level that requires puzzle-solving abilities, or even awarded from defeating a boss. These tokens could even be divided up into three categories: Unlockers, that unlock n combos (either on the spot or back at the hub) for later upgrade; Ability upgrades, that would be used to upgrade only one of your abilities; Combo upgrades, that would be used to upgrade a combo. You could take 30 seconds solving the puzzle to get a token, or you could take 30 hours. The amount of time invested in getting it would be irrelevant, which promotes playing at your own pace.
You could award the player for using the environment to defeat enemies by making them drop recovery items. Low on health? Drop a chandalier on that guy and you'll get health back.
You could award the player for using the environment to defeat enemies by making them drop recovery items. Low on health? Drop a chandalier on that guy and you'll get health back.
I like this idea a lot better, something environmental affecting enemies in such a way they become a benefit to you, rather than a setback. This could easily play in with the style/narrative, and it's a perfect example of risk/reward (assuming dropping that chandelier requires you to go out of your way to do so). Things like that are what makes platformers the best game genre Functions/elements of the game that are neither an absolute benefit or hindrance, but affected by player actions, other functions/elements, or anything else. Allows level design to be extremely varied. I've been playing a lot of Mario 3, it's damn good
say, why not an xp bonus for overkill kinda like FF10?
Also, I have a good idea for basic level engine- remember the original Prince of Persia titles? They focused on environmental traps like spikes and pits (perfect steampunk stuff) with a few minibosses sprinkled throughout the game. You can download the dos game here: http://www.dosgamesarchive.com/download/game/158
note: vista or mac users will have to download dosbox (google it, its free) to run dos games.
Anyways, Our game can be like that. Set up a myriad of hidden switches and blade traps with a couple enemies per level. These guys will have about 5-10 minutes of work in them (for a fairly 'unskilled' player) with a ddr like finishing move system as seen in Star Wars: Force Unleashed on the Wii. It'd break into a scinematic when their health gets low in which the attack and jump icons will flash on screen. Hit them all to turn your opponent into a big gorey mess. Miss one or press the wrong button and you get knocked back while they gain a slight hp boost and you'll have to knock them down again for another chance. This makes a time exp bonus feasible as well by granting a penalty for each missed finisher.
Vegeta? What does your mother say about my power level?
Environmental hazards are a must, and we can get really creative with steampunk themed things.
I don't like the finisher idea. Those kind of button-sequences are really cheap, tacked on, and have nothing to do with a game, unless it is in fact ddr
I like that you brought up gore, though. I haven't seen that mentioned anyway - I assumed we were going with a more cute-ish style, and automatically thought no gore. It might be cool, though. I don't really care if the game is gory or not. Maybe gore in a more subtle way, without crazy blood effects that I think most people are desensitized to... A little animation with a good bone-cracking sound can be just as effective as an over-the-top wound spraying blood everywhere.
Hmm ... now that would be a neat game ... a really serious looking character gets somehow gets sent into a dimensional portal and finds himself in a realllly cutesy world with cute "care-bear"-like bears, and "Pokemon"-esque other creatures, and bunnys and rainbows and bright everything with sunshine and sprinkles.
And he just walks around ripping their heads off and kicking them around the level. And when he does, they bleed Rainbows !!! ... pools of rainbow blood drizzles down as he rips a cutesy head off. Nothing harms him, but they do get in his way, and he has an insanity meter, and if you don't make it through the levels and find the portal home in time, he goes insane and shoots himself in the head.
It's irrelevant to this project, as it's a totally different type of game (rush through, not laid back). But it'd be funny to see such a thing. Could call it "Rainbow Blood: Escape to Reality".
Blood of the Ancient One, Seen only as Shadow, Faster than Lightning, Fierce as the Greatest Dragon, Nearly Invisible, Floating in a Dream, Entered through the Demon Door, Destroyer of Evil in a Realm with a Red Sky Scarred, Who could I be ?
mbk they already did that its called Raze's Hell. And actually gore in this case will probably refer to the gears and shrapnel from steam bots. Just to clarify, it isn't really a ddr 'scrolling arrows' thing. More like an elongated mortal kombat finishing move animation where, at points during the event where the player performs an action, the related button will flash on the screen. For example, if the guy has to dodge an attack to the right then the right arrow will appear. If the right arrow is hit in time, the movie will continue as that step was successful. if the wrong or no button is pressed then the finishing move will fail and the character will be knocked back. If you dont screw up, you get to bear witness to a spectacular finishing move. This kind of thing is really only a good idea for boss battles since the level editor would have a hard time with it but still.
Vegeta? What does your mother say about my power level?
I knew what you were talking about, and I still don't think it's a good design idea. It takes control away from the player. Also, it doesn't fit with the more relaxed pace, and doesn't build on any skill the player learns through the game - it just obnoxiously comes out of nowhere, and if you inevitably fail the first time it comes (assuming it's not so easy that it just gets in the way), you're left feeling a little cheated by the game.
Instead, maybe some abilities or attacks could be extended with special, well-timed button presses to alter or improve the action in some way. These would kind of add an advanced level of play, allowing for tricky secrets or simply more options in battle.
I suppose. It's a little bit too much genre mixing, even if we have an open world action-rpg platformer as it is. Say, on a side note I just got a HUGE donation of royalty free samples/bgm from PartnersInRhyme so as long as we slap their name in the credits there must be at least 600 files in there. We should be covered for a good amount of the game.
Vegeta? What does your mother say about my power level?
Blood of the Ancient One, Seen only as Shadow, Faster than Lightning, Fierce as the Greatest Dragon, Nearly Invisible, Floating in a Dream, Entered through the Demon Door, Destroyer of Evil in a Realm with a Red Sky Scarred, Who could I be ?
no its a ps2 game. And the DL thing was meant just for the story bosses as a way to switch up the gameplay. I can see how it'd be hard to apply to this thing so I'll go back to a previous suggestion of going through a ship combat sequence (looks like we're going with my story) to enter the next level. It's just that I want to add variety to the gameplay so that we might get people more interested in the game's creation. Plus, it would be cool to put secret areas in the game with ship upgrades.
Vegeta? What does your mother say about my power level?
Oh, ok ... well, it might work for just bosses, but it'd be adding yet another genre to the mix already established.
There could be a choice of battle style for the boss fights. A menu could appear before the battle where you get to choose from different modes: "Dragons Lair", "RPG", "2d Action", "2.5d Action", "TD view Action"
This is a brand new idea as far as I know.
The problem with this is it'll mean ALOT more work, which is probably the reason it has never been done before (well, that and 3d with switchable views having come along).
Blood of the Ancient One, Seen only as Shadow, Faster than Lightning, Fierce as the Greatest Dragon, Nearly Invisible, Floating in a Dream, Entered through the Demon Door, Destroyer of Evil in a Realm with a Red Sky Scarred, Who could I be ?
Not just that but equalizing difficulty would be a pain. And the DL story wasn't meant for the whole fight, just when the boss about to die it would have entered an interactive cinematic of sorts for a finishing move. That way, you control the character for the standard fight but you get to do something special when you go in for the kill instead of a standard action.
Vegeta? What does your mother say about my power level?
Maybe rather than a finishing move, it'll get to a point where the boss has a 'finishing point' revealed, that takes a little skill to actually get to and strike. It might take some crafty acrobatics or really skilled shooting, or some kind of mini environment puzzle. Build the 'combo' into the game and make it dynamic, rather than a pre-set sequence that will be the same every time. It might end with a standard action, but the fact that it was a challenge to pull off makes that action much more powerful (entertainment-wise, not literally).
Yeah, maybe build it like the old mario games with the various traps to pull on bowser . I've always wanted to build something with fully immersive cut scenes and just kinda pushed it on to this.
Vegeta? What does your mother say about my power level?
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Jon Lambert
This is why this site needs to have poll support.
What did I just get done saying on the first devlog?!
I feel like we're off to a pretty good start. Anyway, some of you are jumping ahead of the gun. Not entirely, but kinda. What we need to establish right now is the game's genre. Genre's are the game's style, like fighting and RPG, which were both mentioned. Others would include sports, puzzle, action, adventure, racing, simulation, etc.
Take the steampunk style and make it our own, with lots of crazy fantasy technology. If you take the fact that most everything in steampunk is powered by steam, and we change that to being powered by, for example, lava, then we have a lot of basis for different graphics and gameplay elements. Lava is usually associated with instant death, but as the game progresses the equipment and abilities you obtain would help you avoid and resist it, maybe even turn it to your advantage.
