All right, here we go. Starting the graphics discussion... Whoo! Now we are going to begin talking about graphics. With the story moving along, it would be nice to have a visual idea of how the game will appear. What we will be doing first, as we have no engine, is to create concept art for the areas and events being created by the story writers. This concept art does not need to be computer-drawn, but it can be, and it doesn't need to be hand-drawn either, as long as people can see it. Describing the art wouldn't be much more than what we already have.
Do not fret about having a certain style just yet, but remember that this will be steampunk, so go look that up and check out some ideas on how to portray these places. Not every scene will have fantastic machinery and copper pipes. Some places have barely been touched by man, so think about that.
The Lead Graphics Artist will not be decided just yet. When we get the engine and story a little more developed, I'll open an auditions thread for that.
The story ideas are here in the Story Discussion thread. Pick a story, any story, and draw, draw, draw!
Well I'll upload some basic sketches of Dovud and stuff soon, just a warning that my art style is kinda weird, sort of a cross between anime and Dilbert. Wow fun fact: Dilbert isn't a spelling error in this forum app
EDIT: Since I wrote this, I aquired a severe case of bronchitis accompanied by the inability to look down and a headache that stays 24/7. Not the best time for creative drawing. Before the bug I did some really early Dovud designs and there's one I like. However, I never got a chance to put it by itself and rust out the details to make something presentable. Sorry guys, I'll have him and maybe a couple others up when this bug disappears(2-5 days).
Vegeta? What does your mother say about my power level?
I made this concept map, and then I realized that it doesn't really match much of any of the stories given so far. Anyway, I also made it pretty arbitrarily, and the continent probably wouldn't be so clean-cut. The writing isn't naming any of the places, just pointing out what they are.
It doesn't have (and isn't supposed) to be the map we use for the game, just an example, maybe to spark some discussion.
I can picture it kinda sneaking into phant's somewhere, but mine? No f***ing way. The scale is just too big. No offense, but I can't see that working. Well, the good news is that I'm feeling a little better so I'm gonna try and beat the living hell outta ms paint and see what comes up.
Vegeta? What does your mother say about my power level?
Your idea involves going to different planets and you think that scale is too big? I don't understand you, and all you've been doing recently is shooting down any ideas that aren't yours. I think you need to slow your role a bit, everyone else is being at least being constructive in their criticism but all I see from you is hostility. Think a little before you post.
The map would work great for a community project, because of the numerous areas that allow for a lot of creativity (a forest doesn't have to be a conventional forest, add some weird quirks to it, change the perspective), and everyone can kinda pick one they'd like to work on and make it their own. It may not be the best map, or the kind of map anyone expected, some might say it's a little generic, but it's a step in the right direction and doesn't need your instant rejection.
This is just a quick pic I made for a Dovud concept without helmit, the uniform colors are still questionable but I tried straight black and it didn't look right. The emblem on his shirt (the crossed out 0 with the yellow M) is the symbol of the Marinal Empire, as these are his general uniforms. Maybe he could have some stealth abilities to reflect his attire.
And you know what Neuro? I've been in bedrest with a high fever and a constant migrain for the past six days. If I've seemed a bit unproductive, then maybe the inability for creative thought would be the answer. And no , a game that wants a map of planets couldn't use the map of a small island. I'm sorry if you thought that that basic fact was rude or something but that doesn't make it false. Also, aren't we trying to let other people create the levels for us? The use of a map in the early stages will really restrict their options. That's why I picked a planetary thing, it's the most open-ended you can get.
Vegeta? What does your mother say about my power level?
nonononono I had said that my story's scale was too large to have need of a small map. Where there's only one level on a planet at a time the map for a single planet would be useless.
Vegeta? What does your mother say about my power level?
First off, the map I drew is not meant to be the real map (or at least it doesn't have to be.) It was more to encourage others to work on a map. Second, it isn't just an island, it is a whole continent, not drawn to scale. Third, it isn't restrictive, as it gives mountains (for mountains, caves, rocky paths, and volcanos), plains (for plains, fields, rivers, lakes, small villages), beaches (for deserts, beaches, oceansides), cliffs (for caves, cliffs, oceansides) cities (for villages, citys, and ruins) and forests (for forests and jungles.) YEah, I have no time left to type, I'm being told to turn off the computer.
relax man I'm not saying you did a bad job. It has a good amount of diversity (but there is no swamp/marsh area) but I meant more like that there has to be one of each or you have to go in this order... mapmaking should be done once we know where the player is going so since we haven't even decided on a story then what's the point of making a map? That's negative encouragement, we want to work on setting or location to help enforce the decision of a story right now. Once we have the story, we can decide on the game features as they can be given/limited by the story. Then while the programming people get the engine under way, the art people start building their stuff via sketch, paint, or the like. Once we have a basic engine, the art people slather it up with the new pixel art- built to scale with the finalized engine's requirements. Then, while the programmers start work with the level editor, we art people get to work on the cutscenes. With the level editor done, we form a collaborative effort to finish off the details for the first level and package a demo to attract attention. Once we get enough levels from the crowd we'll turn it into a game. I know I got a bit off topic somewhere but does that sound like a good framework?
Vegeta? What does your mother say about my power level?
I'd say game design comes way before story, but I guess it depends how strongly the game relies on the story. I think it would work better if the story were less detailed (at least for the core of the game), to give people more flexibility when designing levels, rather than giving them a level to do more like a job.
We can still have very solid and detailed story in main chunks of the game (those we'd probably make ourselves, as kinda 'main' members of the community team), but other people need room to get as creative as they want. Allow for them to almost make sub-stories within the main game story, and have fun creating content. I'm sure everyone has their own projects they're into, so we shouldn't make this one a chore to join. If the game relies too heavily on the story, we lose a lot of potential contributors simply because they don't like the story or don't like the idea of putting effort into something that needs to be able to support the story.
Bottom line: Gameplay first, fit story around gameplay, and make the project very easy to join in - people simply choose a theme and away they go to make graphics or levels or enemies or weapons, whatever we have that can be made.
Well I did start out that way to make it as open ended as possible. That's why I tried fitting space into steampunk- we may be detailed as hell for the story worlds but all of the planets in between can feature whatever they want. That is the design I'm using. But, now that that part of the gameplay is decided, we need a detailed story as possible so that the game doesn't lose unity with the custom content. If you'll excuse me, I have a pm.
Vegeta? What does your mother say about my power level?
We need ALL the gameplay decided. Not just part of it.
We don't have anything concrete decided. We don't know exactly what we're doing with steam pressure abilities, we don't even know how we're fitting RPG elements in the game. Keep the story in the background whilst we work out the actual game.
They go hand in hand. We need the gameplay elements to be decided yes but what happens if we pick out certain things for the engine like three characters then pick a story with four? What if we make the engine with steam jetpacks only to use a story where a jetpack would be technologically inconceivable. What if we pick a story with steam-powered keys like the suggestion when the engine has a lever system instead? We can edit the engine more easily than we can alter a story without butchering it.
The other reason why I'm letting the story take priority is because it did by default. We first started by choosing a genre for the story and then all of the engine discussion was really story discussion- how many players, what kinds of weapons, who's the enemy... the list goes on. The story will tell us the features for the engine, not the other way around. I'm not saying that the story is more important than the game play, just that when we're working on just the story we're really working on both.
Vegeta? What does your mother say about my power level?
They do not go hand in hand. If the gameplay is better with 3 characters, but the story has 4, then the game is worse, right? We'd have an extra character that isn't fun to play or is imbalanced or throws off the game somehow. I don't think story would do that justice.
Having a story that's good enough to justify less-than-great gameplay is going to be difficult in this kind of game, where we give everyone a lot of creative input. I want the focus to be on a fun game that everyone pitched in to make, rather than a great story made by a few people that had everyone do the monkey-work to make. Of course, everyone will know the story inside-out by the end of development, so it won't really matter
We can still have a great story, but it's nowhere near as important as first having a great game. If we have a great game mechanic that's really fun, but the story we pick doesn't allow it, do we sacrifice a great game element just to fit with a little part of the story?
Things like how many players, weapons, the enemy, are actually gameplay related. I'm confused at what you're trying to say. It seems like you're mostly talking about aesthetic things (steam-powered keys instead of levers, for example). They serve the same function, they just look and sound different. We need to decide functional things (gameplay elements) first. It doesn't matter what they are (steam-powered, laser-powered, magic, whatever), it's what they DO that matters. And you're right, these do need to be decided before we work on the engine, but they aren't story Your labeling confused me, and a lot of stuff is mixed up. It's easy to tie gameplay elements to a theme to fit with story, it doesn't affect the core of the actual story (narrative and stuff), just background and setting.
I've kinda ranted on, I hope it clears some things up. Some things you've said I haven't fully understood, I get where you're coming from now, and I hope you understand my thoughts a little better too. My brain's a little frazzled from thinking it over so much I think I'll take a walk or something.
Advertisement
Jon Lambert
