It's probably not done yet. I assume users can add/subtract to other users reputation.
Either that, or only the admins can change other peoples rep. :3
It will be another admin control thing. Although if it is, I should hope they judge the person by the TDC rules and not just use it as a way to personally attack because they rowed with them in msn
Oh, and while we are talking about new features and such;
I remember seeing a quote-function here some time ago, but then it dissapeared quite soon;
will it ever come back, or have you given up on that one idea? x3
Hey guys hang in there until we announce it on the front page soon. Adamin will be able to give you either a good rep (when you help users out, write review, being active on the forums) or a bad rep (when you break the dc rules) So how it works is, if you get a really bad rep you might end up being banned, of course if you stop breaking the rules and help people out you can go from a bad to a good rep again. Everyone will start out with a clear rep and go from there, stay tuned for more info
Also this great new feature is being programmed by the always cool: Flava and he also tought up the idea, props to flava
Be sure to follow us on the twitters for the latest and greatest: @dailyclick
I don't really see the need for this. Odds are it'll be used heavy-handedly for a couple of months then reserved as an excuse for banning people you don't like (not that bans need to be justified, evidently).
I also have to object to the "Reputation" label. This is more of an "Admin Favour" thing after all. It's not a true representation of reputation, I mean you know the faggot squad here are going to be wheedling points out at every opportunity yet their real "reputation" is decidedly negative.
Looking forward to losing rep for protesting all the fascist shit that goes on here, though. I request that you don't give me points for helping kids out in code-it or whatever, which I'll continue to do when I can, but I DO NOT want to play this stupid game.
Bad rep is given for misbehaviour, posting frequent porn links or writing reviews that consist of the words "This game sucks" x 200. Generally, anything that is deemed unacceptable in society - racism, unnecessary insults, etc.
I should point out also that, in the case of this being a totally unpopular idea, the Rep system wasn't my idea!
It's a case of "three strikes and you're out". But you can gain good rep (not by kissing admins backsides) by doing stuff that is genuinely helpful. It will hopefully encourage users to submit constructive critisism, reviews, and articles. Good rep won't be gained simply by being your normal self... after all, you have to earn your good reputation in real life, and here should be no different.
n/a
Peblo Custom ratings must be 50 characters or less
Registered 05/07/2002
Points 185
14th July, 2007 at 11:29:25 -
So you can misbehave, and post useful advice and good games, reviews and such and stay unbanned?
"Isn't it always amazing how we characterize a person's intelligence by how closely their thinking matches ours?"
~Belgarath
Circy: And, what is the purpose of positive "reputation", besides a buffer between yourself and a ban?
Radix says:
the main thing is, it's obviously another means for them to attempt to control the usership
...
Radix says:
banning has always been there, but now they have a mechanism to project the *threat* of banning
Radix says:
i mean, why isn't there a positive outcome for high rep? the only function is a negative one, which reveals its real function.
...
Radix says:
and of course, the name itself is disingenuous. this is scarily similar to how actual fascists work.
Peblo: Hey, very good point. Loophole sort of relies on the admins being fair and impartial though, eh? Maybe on some other website.
I can't say I don't think a genuine warning or reputation system is categorically a bad idea, but this is some sort of horrible fusion of a flawed warning system disguised as a rep system, and it reeks of foul motives.
It's a simple idea - and if it doesn't work, we can change it.
It's really not a big deal - simply, when people misbehave here, the only thing we can do is ban them (which can be too harsh depending upon the situation).
The ban system still applies - if you go spam racist comments, you'll be banned straight away. If it's something less serious, you'll get a warning. The positive reputation was just something as an extra - which I thought some may like. If you want, I can get rid of the positive reputation and keep it as a simple warning system. Your choice.
The fact you're trying to make us look bad by saying it's a disguise and has foul motives - really doesn't work neither.
Edited by an Administrator.
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Peblo Custom ratings must be 50 characters or less
Registered 05/07/2002
Points 185
14th July, 2007 at 11:50:24 -
Okay. I'm wondering if my question still stands.
"Isn't it always amazing how we characterize a person's intelligence by how closely their thinking matches ours?"
~Belgarath
I don't have a problem with that. I'm choosing to believe you just haven't thought this through properly. If you genuinely intended this to be a warning system, why not change the name, scrap the postive points for good deeds mechanism (there's no way that's going to be carried out properly. First of all, things are going to be missed fairly often. Second, multiple admins reacting to the same event are going to double up on points, unless there's a log of some sort, which would be too much effort to check as frequently as would be necessary. Finally, most of you will get sick of it soon enough), and simply have negative strikes removed automatically after a fortnight or something.
At the very least, please change the label. What you're talking about here has nothing to do with reputation.
What would you like me to change it too?
And if you have any other ideas for moderation, please do tell us. We're simply trying to improve things around here after the whole Phizzy thing - no need to bite our heads off.
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Peblo Custom ratings must be 50 characters or less
Registered 05/07/2002
Points 185
14th July, 2007 at 11:56:53 -
How will the reputation system work? Will you subtract points from rep if people misbehave, and if the rep goes under a number like -120 then they're banned? Because then positive points would absolutely ruin the system.
"Isn't it always amazing how we characterize a person's intelligence by how closely their thinking matches ours?"
~Belgarath
And if you have any other ideas for moderation, please do tell us.
Just stop overmoderating. Keeping a handle on illegal content and deliberatly disruptive behaviour is one thing. Censoring posts you don't like is annoying. Deleting posts that criticise you is despicable. It needs to be remembered that TDC is a website that services a community, it isn't a self-contained community itself. If it were things would be completely different.
If I call peblo a worthless --, is the server going to crash? no it isn't. And just because you try to prevent me doing so doesn't mean I don't still think he is, and it isn't going to change the way I feel. All it leads to is snarky - like Tim sniping and bitching at every opportunity. Is that better?
Look, I know I'm being an idealist here. This is a private site and there's nothing wrong with it having rules. But I have no idea what those rules are supposed to be, since there seem to be magic, invisible, or secret ones more and more lately.
What I'd like to know is, where exactly is the damn problem you're reacting to? Ignoring phizzy's eccentricities, have we really been having problems with racism or crapflooding or child pornography or some other world-ending shit? Things have gone smoothly here for years. Drama is a constant in any community, but it really sucks when it's moderator-generated.
-------------------------------------------------
It's late and I might have gone overboard. I actually meant to talk to you about this on MSN before posting in this threa, but you weren't on. By all means go on adding site features, you're awesome that way, but can we either back off on the moderation stuff or come up with a concrete set of rules (which the ADMINS OBEY TOO, meaning no more "because I feel like it" bans or censorship)?
Actually, if I catch you on later I've got an incomplete site design document some of us were working on as a potential replacement for TDC, which probably has a number of features that would be worth consideration.
You've posted as I type:
The main idea of the system was for warning people - I may very well make it so you can't go over 0 points and keep it simply as a warning system.
PLEASE YES. Then the label can become "warnings" or "warning points", and this idea will be vastly improved.
I see your point - but the fact is, you and Phizzy are not the only people who visit this site. You may not find the comments offensive, others do - we have to deal with it and that's what we're trying to do. We can't make everyone happy, but do what we think is right.
We try not to censor people here - you know that, you can't say otherwise. People here use bad language every day, and call each other names, but we currently only have 3 people banned on this site. So to say we're over-moderating isn't true at all, in my opinion.
People who constantly call other's names - such as cunts, paedos or insult others about their weight and things - deserved to be censored. Not just on this website, but on any website.
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Peblo Custom ratings must be 50 characters or less
Registered 05/07/2002
Points 185
14th July, 2007 at 12:38:04 -
Billybob should be warned for page stretching.
"Isn't it always amazing how we characterize a person's intelligence by how closely their thinking matches ours?"
~Belgarath
You may not find the comments offensive, others do
Right. While I personally believe if you don't like something you're free to f off somewhere else, I'm not running the site. Offesiveness is completely subjective, which is why rules need to be codified and actually adhered to by the moderatorship.
We try not to censor people here - you know that, you can't say otherwise.
Bullshit. Rikus and (it seems) yourself are pretty trigger-happy when it comes to deleting whole conversations outright. That's about two steps under assassination on the scale of censorship.
So to say we're over-moderating isn't true at all, in my opinion.
Conduct is far more important. Like for example right now you're implementing a patently unnecessary warning system.
People who constantly call other's names - such as cunts, paedos or insult others about their weight and things - deserved to be censored. Not just on this website, but on any website.
I find this comment pretty reprehensible, but I think you're trying to talk about severely disruprive behaviour, and on that I agree. But does TDC really have a problem with this sort of thing? If it does I'm entirely unaware of it, so clearly it's being dealt with appropriately on an ad-hoc basis if it does exist.
Edit:
Wait, if you're talking about phizzy, you're hugely exaggerating. In fact under this warning system he's be invulnerable from banning since he's helpful more often than he is silly.
Also, the warning buttons are kind of obtrusive and vertically stretch out posts even more, so why not have it display on profiles instead?
Bullshit. Rikus and (it seems) yourself are pretty trigger-happy when it comes to deleting whole conversations outright. That's about two steps under assassination on the scale of censorship.
You can talk to me about this on MSN - the only time I've ever deleted comments was on the front page when everybody seemed to be targetting a single person. If you honestly expect me to let several members insult and abuse one person - then you are certainly wrong. And you think that is over-moderation??
I find this comment pretty reprehensible, but I think you're trying to talk about severely disruprive behaviour, and on that I agree. But does TDC really have a problem with this sort of thing? If it does I'm entirely unaware of it, so clearly it's being dealt with appropriately on an ad-hoc basis if it does exist.
Phizzy has been doing it for the last few years - he's probably the only person who's been doing it though, fair enough.
You can talk to me about this on MSN - the only time I've ever deleted comments was on the front page when everybody seemed to be targetting a single person.
Obviously it's impossible to tell who's actually doing it.
If you honestly expect me to let several members insult and abuse one person - then you are certainly wrong.
Why? What does deleting the conversation after the fact achieve?
And you think that is over-moderation??
As I said, conduct is as important. Acting like the site is under assault is equivalent to it actually being under assault. Deleting dozens of unique user posts at a time (regardless of who's doing it) is a pretty big deal. I have no idea why it's so common here.
I agree on that, actually. I guess swearing occasionally is... tolerable at best. But frequently doing so is perhaps treading on the toes of an admin a little too hard.
Some people clearly don't like the idea of this system, some do. I think all the admins definitely approve of it in order to run a tight ship, many non-admins who like peace and harmony would probably agree too.
The trouble is, over the years we've let TDC and its rules be incredibly relaxed for a community site, which is why there have always been big arguments here in the past between certain members. Is it the taste of 100% freedom that you're about to lose bothering you, or is it just the fact that you don't like change? Either way, you're going to have to get used to it.
I type almost the way I speak, which is why my posts are always littered with parentheses. Swearing is a part of this voice. Don't like it? Man up.
Spoiler, Circy: I post on incredibly strict sites too, and flaming is no less frequent. People don't change just because you censor them (hah, last time I said that my post was deleted).
I type the way I speak too (apart from obvious smileys and lols, etc) but I just don't feel the need to swear all the time. These new features aren't designed to change a person but are really here to try and keep peace and civility. I accept that swearing can be part of a personality. But when a person has a personality that swears to serious excess, with every other word being a word of profanity, you do have to question their purpose in the community - are they genuinely doing it because they're foul-mouthed in real life, or are they trying to start something controversial?
I'm not saying you're a person who's overly excessive Radix, but I think those are the grounds an admin needs to go on to add a point to the warning system.
Hi guys. So, my most RECENT ban, this was done immediately prior to this system being put in place, so that you wouldn't have to put up with me for three warnings. Am I right? See, because I don't personally believe a single retalliatory "fuck you" is worth a ban. I don't think it's worth a warning, honestly. Especially when the post was an overreaction due to personal issues and I asked an admin to remove it five minutes later. So I'd like to be reinstated with one warning, please.
I really can't understand why you admins feel the need to add this feature. Are you guys bored or something.
Believe it or not i actually got sent a message warning me to calm down a few weeks ago. After posting a single line of text that was quite clearly supposed to be taken as a joke. (and if it was serious it would be taken as an opinion anyway)
This in my opinion is an example of over zealousness. And i do not like it.
We do not need a zero tolerance policy here thank you very much.
It's not a zero-tolerance policy. It's simply to keep people who are persistent rule breakers in check. If you get warned once, you might realise that what you did was wrong. Do it again and you haven't learned, and you get another notch added. A third time = ban.
The last few years, TDC has been a lunatic asylum, with the inmates running free... so to speak (don't take offence) Everyones used to lax rules, and the system thats being set up now makes it easier for us to keep an eye on things.
n/a
Deleted User
14th July, 2007 at 19:15:29 -
Again, it seems like you banned me early to get around the new warnings system. I suggest you make it so that it drops one notch per month or so, so that bans don't just smack you in the face if you manage to do three bad things within six years. And maybe if it's the third notch, you drop it after two months. Permanent bans are just pointless, they just make people complain.
Deleted User
14th July, 2007 at 19:19:36 -
I'd join you but the warning system doesn't apply to me. I just get fun bans.
By zero tolerance i'm referring to the fact that every little indiscretion is acted upon. Be it a warning in a mail or the message deleted. Or in this case another notch on the banometer.
Believe it or not i actually got sent a message warning me to calm down a few weeks ago. I'm always getting messages of Rikus to calm it down, but for petty garbage which isn't even offensive.
Shit, I'm starting to feel left out here.
It's simply to keep people who are persistent rule breakers in check.
We have those? Wait... we have rules?
Hey Radix alrighty so here is my point of view of things,
This is a family site, kids of all ages come here, if we catch it we do not allow swearing. We either remove the post or edit out the swear words. Very simple, i'm sorry if you do not agree with this but thats the way it has to be for a site like this. Now we can keep talking over and over about this, but thats what it comes down to. Now if you feel that a post or topic has been deleted/editied unfairly the best thing you can do is to msg us in private, talk to us. So we can agree to disagree but at least you see my point of view of things. This site from the beginning was always a site to be setup for all ages. That's why we dont allow swearing. Again if you disagree about something or you feel something can be improved the best thing is to talk to us in dc mail or msn. We are always very open but please do understand where we are coming from, we are not here to over-police or annoy the regular forum posters.
Thanks for readin man,
Rikus
Edited by an Administrator.
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Rikus: I've already had a long discussion with Flava on MSN, and hopefully he'll be relaying the parts we agreed on. The main issue seems to be consistency.
As for swearing, I think your reasoning is non sequitur, but it's probably a waste of bandwidth discussing it.
n/a
Deleted User
14th July, 2007 at 21:55:18 -
I suggest you actually tell people why they've been warned. I've suddenly got a random warning point. If this is the one I requested for my real account then can you unban it?
Hey radix, yea flava let us know about the discussion all good points so i'm sure everything will be worked out just fine, like i said we are not here to make things horrible for you guys. In any event i'll be closing this topic now, we will keep everyone updated on this new feature and currently improvements to the system are being put in place. Thanks guys!
Be sure to follow us on the twitters for the latest and greatest: @dailyclick
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I want more!
Edited by the Author.
Is this like the "karma" system on Proboards?
Everyones used to lax rules, and the system thats being set up now makes it easier for us to keep an eye on things.
