Mark Radon:- why bother? Well I have to agree with that Daniel Floyd guy, if no one bothers then games as an art form will never go anywhere. He makes a good enalargy with film in that when it was first introduced it was considered a fad but over time garnered acceptances.
Not that I'm really planing to push the boundreys though.
"Oh, my god! A lightning monster just ripped out this poor woman's eyes, and your mocking her shrubbery!" - The Spoony One
I don't buy into all that games being art-form stuff. I cannot see how games (as we know them in this day and age) can be classed as art forms, and even if they could be why would sex be required for this? Games are just games to me; calling games art is like calling books art - it's just entertainment!
That's one of the most stupid things anyone could say, lol I mean, of course its a form of art. Probably one of the most expressive as it uses sight and sound and interaction, all of which require artistic talent in the first place...
Okay, maybe the likes of Okami and Pikmin could be classed as artistic, but games as a whole fall a bit short - can you class the likes of Duke Nukem 3D and BMX XXX as art? I think until we start seeing game galleries like art galleries sprouting up in Paris and Rome we shouldn't make games out to be more than they actually are - that is, digital entertainment
It hink its fine. The writer/producer/whoever is trying to tell a story, just like any other art if you dont like it dont play it. I mean you don't necissarily need a full on hardcore penetration seen but if two characters have sex to progress the story then thats fine.
Games can be an art form so long as the whole commercial side of the industry doesn't overwhelm it too much.
You wouldnt call Fifa 2008 art, but something like Zelda Windwaker could be i guess.
Originally Posted by AndyUK Games can be an art form so long as the whole commercial side of the industry doesn't overwhelm it too much.
You wouldnt call Fifa 2008 art, but something like Zelda Windwaker could be i guess.
- Ok, you must admit that was the most creative cussing this site have ever seen -
Mark Radon, do you make games without considering yourself an artis? That's pretty sad if you ask me. I personally consider my games to be art, and myself a game artist. I consider all things that are crafted by persons to express aestetical ideas to be art.
About the disscussion of sex; it doesn't make you a bad person. I'm a very sexual person, yet I have no problem being kind and sexually neutral towards others. I have had no strange ideas or problems with my "shared" sex life as a reslut of my private one (as far as I know, noone else have had problems with that neither ). If you think that some erotic stuff can enhance your game, include it!
I do agree with what Knudde said though. Many (if not most so far) games presents female sexuality in a very clumsy, unnatural way. But even if ridiculous body-proportions and armor designs can ruin a game somewhat, I would rather say that this is a product of the unbalance between men and women, rather than sexuality itself. I do belive that this is a trend that is about to disappear though.
books not art?! are you insane in the head?! books are some of the most intelligent, brilliantly crafted works of art ever created. anyone can draw or paint and call it art. take jackson pollock for example. really? i mean come on.
as for not "having galleries in rome and paris" for videogames doesnt negate its artistic value. you also said books weren't art but have you ever been to a library? i would call those a galleries good sir.
and art IS entertainment. why then would we GO to an art gallery? for entertainment....
It pisses me off that any element of sexuality in a game earns it an AO rating. I have to recall the whole hot coffee controversy. 2 fairly low poly models of fully clothed people in sexual positions as a hidden feature. It was stupid, not very fun, and pointless. Yet this caused the game to be pulled from shelves and slapped with an AO rating until the feature was removed. This game was already rated M 17+. Anyone seen any R rated flicks lately? Same rating, 17+. And you can get away with so much more in a movie. Everyone knows this, yet it is a double standard.
At the same time I feel like a large percentage of the people behind making games are too juvenile to deal with these concepts. Rockstar keeps trying to convince us all that games are an art form, and that they're like movies, yet the dialogue, jokes, and concepts within the GTA games feel like they were thought up in a junior high locker room. I'm not saying it's not funny or interesting at times, but sex jokes and using the word fuck constantly does not make a game mature or more respectable.
Second, In general
Not everyone wants to wait til they get married to get laid. Doing so does not make you immoral, or incapable of meaningful relationships. The people who cheat, or do not appreciate their significant other are not like that because they had sex before marriage or because they looked at porn, they're like that because they're assholes. You can have sex without being involved in a serious relationship. It's fun. If you don't want to, fine. There are those of us you can decipher between casual sex and sex in a meaningful relationship. It's just different. If you only see sex in one way, that's your prerogative. But don't act like every person who does it outside of marriage is some heathen without morals.
Mark Radon:- There is a painting that was dune by a well known painter, I can't remember his name, but it was just a bunch of squires?! Personally I don't know what the big deal is but it is considered a work of art. And if that can be considered art then you can't tell me that Realms of the Haunting is not. Art is just a form of creative expression, witch is why books, movies, music are all part of the arts.
The reason sex and relationships would be important is becouse it's a big part of adult life. The guy went over it in his video and better than I can.
Also, using the film enalargy agen, not every film may be considered a work of art, just look at most of the stuff that comes out of Hollywood, but it's still and art form. A way that the director, writer, whoever uses to expres themselves. Also, like games creating it is usually a collaborative prossees.
You could definatly call Duke a work of art. I think his games are a satire on pop-culture. Also, why would we have to have our games in the luve for them to be considered artwork? Some people in the "art" community like to be dismissive and exclusive about what is and what is not art. Those people, I find, are usually very up themselves.
Well this has turned into a very interesting thread for a topic that started out to determin if you guys would kick me out if I put sex in my game.
"Oh, my god! A lightning monster just ripped out this poor woman's eyes, and your mocking her shrubbery!" - The Spoony One
Hahaha, yeah you are right - it has been interesting. Everyone has made some good cases for computer games being a form of art and to be fair i am changing my mind somewhat, but i do still think that games, as they are in 2008, are 99% of the time not art. I think there are exceptions (ICO, Mario 64 etc) but on the whole i don't think games are anything but digital entertainment and i cannot see why they should be any more than that coz to me, that's cool. Yet at the same time those squares that dude 'painted' is not art, it's shit passed as art. And so is that exhibition that girl did that was just a messed up bed - again, that's just shit!
I have come to the conclusion that art exists in many forms of entertainment; whether it's paintings, movies, books or video games. But having some games being artistic doesn't mean that games as a whole are 'art', just as not all paintings are art.
Quite deep analysis coming from a guy who just submitted a game that involves blowing the crap outta each other for fun! (I don't class R.P.G. as art, to me it's nothing more than digital entertainment!)
Sex in games is NOT the same as sex in movies. If there's some nudity in a movie, you can always look away. In a game, it's usually interactive, which means you can't avoid it, you have to go through it.
Personally, I'd rather not see it, but it's fine to me if it was disabled by default, but there's a button to turn it on. Unless it fits in well with the game and is handled discreetly (off-screen), like Fallout and I-0.
Disclaimer: Any sarcasm in my posts will not be mentioned as that would ruin the purpose. It is assumed that the reader is intelligent enough to tell the difference between what is sarcasm and what is not.
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I mean, of course its a form of art. Probably one of the most expressive as it uses sight and sound and interaction, all of which require artistic talent in the first place...
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resulting in game = Art.
