I think the problem is that people are forced to work in teams now and to look at the market before anything. Any creativity is stifled because the big companies see selling games like selling toys, not art.
It's not that there's anything wrong with big teams, it's just that they're forced to squeeze their vision into a narrower box. Look at Spore.. it's obviously a well thought out idea, but dumbed down greatly from what Will Wright first explained. The Sims on the other hand wasn't dumbed down or anything, it was just a light project till it became so rich that EA had enough money to buy out most of their competitors.
One interesting thing is that most of the "classics" didn't really sell well. Sure, they were great, Fallout, Dungeon Keeper, etc, but they ended up bankrupting the company almost every time. I don't know.. maybe art and money don't mix. Maybe games are meant to be indie.
What I do know is that the most ambitious game of all time, Dwarf Fortress, is being made by a single person based on stories written by his brother. Sure they listen to fans, but even though they could work as a huge team, they don't.
Disclaimer: Any sarcasm in my posts will not be mentioned as that would ruin the purpose. It is assumed that the reader is intelligent enough to tell the difference between what is sarcasm and what is not.
Yea. Mario, Metroid, Zelda, Lemmings, Street Fighter, Worms, Counterstrike, Starcraft, Pokemon didn't sell well at all.
It seems to me that the Nintendo Wii, with it's unique controllers, could be the most interesting thing to happen to gaming for quite some time. Admittedly, I've never played on one, so I don't know if any of the games are any good, but at least it has the *potential* for developers to come up with some more innovative games.
It does and it doesn't. It makes some games feel brilliant to play and actually makes the FPS format almost as enjoyable as the PC does, and stuff like Lost Winds is just brilliant to play. But it isn't a sweeping new setup that can play everything before it perfectly - stuff like Brawl is best with the standard controller still.
But without the Wii I'd likely have dropped out of the console market and stuck to handhelds and PC only.
For me handhelds now are like the late 90's in console gaming. There's little immersion and potential for great graphics so more effort is put onto the gameplay. Or so it seems. I could happily drop consoles now so long as I had a constant stream of handheld games and PC games will always have indie games that value inventive gameplay and alternative business models compared to PC games (WTF Blizzard want us to pay 3 different games for SC2?!).
I totally agree, handhelds have some great games. Infact, a lot of my favourite games have been for handhelds - MoleMania for gameboy, AdvanceWars, Fire Emblem and GoldenSun series' for GBA, etc.
Originally Posted by Dr. James For me handhelds now are like the late 90's in console gaming.
A lot of the best games on nintendo handhelds at least are remakes of '90s (and '80s) console games. Looking at my list of faves, FireEmblem and AdvanceWars were both essentially SNES games, while GoldenSun started out on the NES. Then there are the remakes of Zelda, Mario,...
I personally prefer good pixelart over 3d graphics anyday
I agree. I recently played through Monkey Island I,II,III, and IV. The graphics for all the games are different - I and II has some great pixel art, i loved those 2 games more than any other before or since. III goes completely different and goes cartoony but is still beautiful....then along comes 4 and for some stupid reason some idiot decided to make it 3D.No, no no no no no no ! What are you doing. It was awful.
Same thing with Simon the Sorcerer - Who thought making that in 3D would be a good idea? some games are best left in 2D
The other thing i thought of is the difficulty level. Maybe I was just very uncoordinated when I was younger, but I'm sure games are easier these days. There's not such a feeling of accomplishment when you do complete a game. I guess everyone wants instant gratification (and it's cheaper and easier to make short games too).
I personally prefer good pixelart over 3d graphics anyday
I agree. I recently played through Monkey Island I,II,III, and IV. The graphics for all the games are different - I and II has some great pixel art, i loved those 2 games more than any other before or since. III goes completely different and goes cartoony but is still beautiful....then along comes 4 and for some stupid reason some idiot decided to make it 3D.No, no no no no no no ! What are you doing. It was awful.
Same thing with Simon the Sorcerer - Who thought making that in 3D would be a good idea? some games are best left in 2D
Like worms. Who the crap thought 3d worms would be a good idea?!
You can log off any time you like, but you can't ever leave.
That's just it. Everyone wants to make a game that sells more these days. Games have become like the music industry - you could make a lot of good stuff, or you could make something that the reviewers and magazines will love.
What I hate is that modern games are getting their theories wrong. Look at games like FIG, Counter-Strike, Fallout, Knytt Stories. They were made without any theories. Look at Empire Earth 2 and 3, or any modern FPS.. those games are stuffed full of game design theories.
Formulas and trends don't work with art (except in the case of movies, where it works wonderfully!). You can't say "Worms = fun", "3D = good", thus "Worms 3D = AAA game!"
Disclaimer: Any sarcasm in my posts will not be mentioned as that would ruin the purpose. It is assumed that the reader is intelligent enough to tell the difference between what is sarcasm and what is not.
A lot of the best games on nintendo handhelds at least are remakes of '90s (and '80s) console games. Looking at my list of faves, FireEmblem and AdvanceWars were both essentially SNES games, while GoldenSun started out on the NES. Then there are the remakes of Zelda, Mario,...
GoldenSun never started out on the NES. The first game was on the GBA. Was there even an Advance Wars on the SNES? That started on the NES but it didn't come into its own until the GBA versions. There has only been 1 Zelda port, and no Mario/Zelda/Metroid ports at all on the DS.
Originally Posted by M
What I hate is that modern games are getting their theories wrong. Look at games like FIG, Counter-Strike, Fallout, Knytt Stories. They were made without any theories. Look at Empire Earth 2 and 3, or any modern FPS.. those games are stuffed full of game design theories.
Wasn't Fig a MMF version of some Flash game though? Hmm.
But I disagree. You're just using your list of fave games again Muz (and picking bad games with obvious design flaws as examples). Looking over the good games that sell (Mario, GTA, Pokemon) they do have a formula or theory that they follow through on all their games. It's incredibly short sighted to say that theories=bad.
I wasn't saying that Worms 3D was good BECAUSE it was 3D, I just liked it.
I liked it better than the 2D ones. I thought it was more fun.
And you can have all the special effects, and great graphics, and hardware acceleration, but FUN is what games are about.
Your just jealous that you're not as awesome as me.
(And my megaman avatar )
DrJames: You're right about Golden Sun. It turns out some chinese company had just ported it to the NES - why I do not know. They did the same with Tomb Raider and a few others. There was indeed a super famicom wars. Metroid?
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