Just added this piece to the tdc rules. I think it is fair but I am open to everyones input. Please let me know what you think
Rules to be followed by all admins
Admins are not allowed to remove a post and or topic under normal circumstances. If a post is offensive and is against the rules a admin should remove this content and put a warning msg inside of the offending post why it was removed keeping the topic intact. If there are to many posts to be edited and the entire original topic is out of reach a admin has the right to lock the topic, however in his final post stating why the topic is locked.
In no event as per Sunday May 31st, 2009 shall a post and or topic be removed under normal circumstances. (For Example SPAM posts warrent removal) If a post or topic gets deleted later this year the Admins will have the abbility to "revive" a removed post or topic that was deleted by another admin, if the deletion was not grounded. A breach of these rules can result into the removal of the admin privileges.
Edited by an Administrator
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Flava is thinking about making it so that deleted topics can be revived for review if there is a dispute. I think that's the best course to go, plus maybe an addendum to the rules that makes admins think really hard whether a topic should be deleted--and only if the topic is something such as inappropriate pictures plastered everywhere. Maybe a buffer, where the topic is taken down until the other admins can review it until a decision is made.
"In no event as per Sunday May 31st, 2009 shall a post and or topic be removed under normal circumstances. (For Example SPAM posts warrent removal). If a post or topic gets deleted later this year the Admins will have the abbility to "revive" a removed post or topic that was deleted by another admin, if the deletion was not grounded."
Edited by an Administrator
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I think the really bad/offensive/whatever topics should be hidden, not deleted. So that... well I think it's just Flava's idea all over again. Sometimes there are calls for a thread or post to be deleted. If a bot came in here and posted advertisements I'm sure they would be deleted, or if somebody posted legally questionable content they should also be removed (or hidden) without question.
Revised rule set as in what sense? Like a coded laws thing? Trolling is punishable by silencing, downvoting for the purpose of harassment is punishable by warning, talking back to the admins and offering bribes is punishable by a fine of 10 to 10000 DC points? That sort of thing?
Disclaimer: Any sarcasm in my posts will not be mentioned as that would ruin the purpose. It is assumed that the reader is intelligent enough to tell the difference between what is sarcasm and what is not.
As nice as that sounds, from experience, the more specific they are, the more likely someone's going to do abuse it. Ever read a legal license? Exactly. It's annoying and doesn't help anyone, especially since it's supposed to just be a light-hearted site.
If there was a rule where you can't downvote for no reason, someone who votes 1 because it wasn't fun at all can be accused of downvoting, and someone can, by intention, downvote something as 0 stars and then come up with a bunch of reasons, like solitaire being boring, the size being too big, the game not as good as another game, etc, etc - they have a reason to downvote, but for all purposes and intents they're doing it to hurt the other person's feelings.
If there was a rule that you can't troll, then anything off topic and irrelevant can be accused as being trolling. And someone who is keeping one sentence on topic to insult another member could claim to not be trolling.
And so on.
It's kinda better to keep it as vague as it is. But if you think some rules don't work then go ahead and mention which.
Disclaimer: Any sarcasm in my posts will not be mentioned as that would ruin the purpose. It is assumed that the reader is intelligent enough to tell the difference between what is sarcasm and what is not.
I thought administrators were chosen because of their ability to resolve disputes and to not get personal. Shouldn't we be able to trust their judgement of deleting topics which are deemed inappropriate?
The idea that we should have to moderate the moderators is absurd.
Originally Posted by Pkeod The idea that we should have to moderate the moderators is absurd.
Though it may not be my place to say so, I tend to agree. It's like arguing with the ref. Sure continued unfairness should be affronted, but gimme a break, are ya gonna die if some piddly topic was deleted for a reason? This whole shish kebab reminds me of the story of Chicken Little. In a community like this, it's normal to delete things all the time. In most places I've been there is no arguing with the admins OR the admin choices. If there are, you take it up with the head admin/owner, and his word is final. TDC is pretty lenient with that. TDC is lenient with a lot of things!
I'm thinking of a certain parable... give them an inch maybe? Nah, it's a different one...
Well, moderators, throughout the whole klik community have gone personal in the past. And a lot of them have been fired for that, but given another public reason. But no matter where, TDC, TK, #k&p, KA, PK, it's been fine, even when a moderator gets a bit personal, everyone else pulls him back.
Arguing with the ref is perfectly normal, though. Heh, in soccer, doing that would quickly land you a warning and a 2-match ban.
TDC is very, very lenient on it, more than I'd personally like. Most of the deleted posts have been completely negative. It doesn't really matter whether it's about another member or about the administrators sucking, if you're saying it just to start a fight, it doesn't help anyone.
Clickteam forums are very hard handed on it. I think that's why theirs have always been more orderly. TDC's always had a problem with trolls since the beginning and the more destructive ones take an entire year to ban, and even then, it's a very short ban. Even the ones with obvious bad intentions - posting pornographic images on the front page, those need 3 warnings before a ban.
But this leniency is the path that TDC chooses, it's what the members prefer, so it's how it's going to be.
Disclaimer: Any sarcasm in my posts will not be mentioned as that would ruin the purpose. It is assumed that the reader is intelligent enough to tell the difference between what is sarcasm and what is not.
TDC is the only community site I've ever visited where total deletions are so commonplace. Locking stuff, sure, but excising whole discussions and acting like nothing ever happened is just strange and has always struck me as really wrong. Yeah, it's a private site, but it's still a heavy-handed and inconsiderate response that from time to time got swung about way too much. It also occasionally made things pretty confusing and perpetuated a tonne of dramas.
So good call. I would be really happy about this too if I still posted here.
Muz: it's pretty much always been warranted, or at least symptomatic of some underlying problem (we have a lot of those here). Like that chick who fucked Mulder said when she was knee-high and still on that other show, through conflict comes growth. Of course you aren't gonna enjoy it, but you have to respect that people aren't going to "start a fight" with the administrapo unless they feel they have a grievance and ignoring perceived grievances is no way to keep anything running smoothly.
n/a
Peblo Custom ratings must be 50 characters or less
Registered 05/07/2002
Points 185
9th June, 2009 at 20:55:17 -
Huh. This is awesome! I was fighting for this for years, and the moment I stopped caring, they put it into effect.
Does this mean I can't remove posts?
"Isn't it always amazing how we characterize a person's intelligence by how closely their thinking matches ours?"
~Belgarath
Originally Posted by Pkeod The idea that we should have to moderate the moderators is absurd.
How do you figure that? The moderators are just as capable of acting up as any other member. Only difference is, they can delete things and we can't. Thankfully with these new rules, this shouldn't be a big problem anymore.
We, the regular members should moderate the moderators if needed, not a higher rank of moderators. And we do this by simply discussing the decisions made that we disagree with.
Yes, as with any other system. Since we all seem to be in accord with the new rules, let's not bicker needlessly, shall we? I just finished exams and I intend on having a good visit to my favorite website.
Can admins delete alerts before other admins see them? If so I think it should be changed so that the alert stays there for all to see. I really can't trust admins won't delete alerts to save a friend's back, before the other admins see them.
Or perhaps even a red message that appears at the top of the content "This content has recieved an admin alert" so others know not to send alerts. Surely it can't help recieving dozens of alerts over the same complaint.
Plenty of klik sites are quite heavy handed. The only ones that are a bit light seem to have no members for some reason.. either that means having a small active user base doesn't cause trouble, or they've been secretly pissing everyone off and are quiet about it. Personally, I never really liked the total deletions though.. I'd rather edit out obscene parts of a post and leave an "Edited by Muz" mark on it. If it deserved to be deleted, then there's nothing wrong with claiming you did it.
Admins can delete alerts. Personally, yeah, I'd prefer the alerts stay there at least 3 days before getting deleted. Alerts on an post being alerted seems a bit ridiculous, though, it's not like alerts are too common
Disclaimer: Any sarcasm in my posts will not be mentioned as that would ruin the purpose. It is assumed that the reader is intelligent enough to tell the difference between what is sarcasm and what is not.
And you know, we aren't backhanded conniving people who would hide alerts for someone. People who would do that sort of a thing generally have other tendencies that keep them from being an admin.
Besides, even if we did want to hide something, alerts here are never anything worth hiding. O_o
Removed the "Taco" discussion. Please stay on topic and try to not to attack eachother. If you feel your post got deleted by mistake please pm me and I shall try to put it back.
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Radix, the topic was turning into a mess with people talking about Tacos and refering eachother as girl dogs. Not a healthy discussion and off the point even more so with this topic, if it was any other topic the entire topic would just have been locked, however to keep discussion open the posts were removed so that we can continue to talk about this subject in a normal adult way. If a post got deleted by mistake (3 pages in total were removed on the 2 subjects mentioned above) that you think offers a valid discussion point let me know and I will try and retrieve it for you.
Edited by an Administrator
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Still, that does prove the point that TDC is often moderated in a pretty heavy handed manner. A few light hearted posts about Tacos is hardly even worth the effort of deleting.
I'm sure many people visit the forums for a place to hang out and have a laugh. A fair amount of members aren't even adults yet so expecting an adult discussion is somewhat optimistic.
"I'm sure many people visit the forums for a place to hang out and have a laugh."
Maybe so, but that can be done in other threads, like the L4D one which keeps getting bumped every other day by the same three or four people.
This isn't a thread to be "having a laugh" in Jeesh, the ammount of times you've accused me of trolling and now you're supporting misplaced taco-topic nonsense, in this thread of all threads
Originally Posted by Rikus (3 pages in total were removed on the 2 subjects mentioned above)
Not a few light-hearted posts. At any rate, this could be considered a newpost of sorts, and some sites don't even let you post on news threads. People complain about threads being highjacked, and then they complain about having highjacked threads being clipped. Pick one.
Though I would say that the taco subject did appear because members wanted to avoid more argument, which is a noble effort. We've discussed this almost to death I think.
well maybe an admin could just say "well lets get back on topic now people" instead of deleating everything? this is just confusing coz am sure I posted things on topic and not about tacos (which is just a cecil thing I asked him that)
i admit the topic was already derailed when i threw tacos into the mix but i find it hard to beleive there was 3 pages. there were only about 3-5 posts with tacos in it, hardly a discussion. id be willing to bet half of those comments before it had at least partly to do with the topic.
Well, sure you can complain about everything you don't like to the point where you overstep the mark or you can just try to enjoy your hobby. I know which one I would prefer.
It's like going on a family picnic and having everyone argue over who ate the most sandwiches, then before anything is actually settled your parents force you all to go home. It ruins all the fun.
Originally Posted by Rikus Radix, the topic was turning into a mess with people talking about Tacos and refering eachother as girl dogs. Not a healthy discussion and off the point even more so with this topic, if it was any other topic the entire topic would just have been locked, however to keep discussion open the posts were removed so that we can continue to talk about this subject in a normal adult way. If a post got deleted by mistake (3 pages in total were removed on the 2 subjects mentioned above) that you think offers a valid discussion point let me know and I will try and retrieve it for you.
No. My comment had nothing to do with tacos and was removed, but I am not going to try to justify my remarks to support a kind of opt-out -- scattergun censorship.
I think its better we close this off, new rules were added and flava is going to code a system so other admins can see who deleted what and also get the abbility to put posts and topics back that were removed, I think that should resolve lots of discussion
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Edited by an Administrator
It's like arguing with the ref. Sure continued unfairness should be affronted, but gimme a break, are ya gonna die if some piddly topic was deleted for a reason? This whole shish kebab reminds me of the story of Chicken Little. In a community like this, it's normal to delete things all the time. In most places I've been there is no arguing with the admins OR the admin choices. If there are, you take it up with the head admin/owner, and his word is final. TDC is pretty lenient with that. TDC is lenient with a lot of things!
