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HitmanN

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25th July, 2010 at 14:15:49 -


Originally Posted by Strife
If you want to avoid RPG elements, the magic could revolve mainly around overcoming obstacles in the game world as opposed to combat with enemies. For example, magic could be used to create new platforms, open up passageways, create a waypoint between two locations, etc.



There's nothing RPG in magic itself. It's just a silly association people have because magic is almost exclusively used in RPG's only. Mages in RPG's cast fireballs, right? Does that mean Super Mario games are RPG's because Mario can throw fireballs? The only difference is that Mario throws the fireball, while mages cast/conjure one. Does that mean casting magic turns a game into an RPG? In that case, any magic cast in any game makes it automatically an RPG?

There's no logic there.

Magic does not equal RPG. Press a button, swing a sword. Press a button, cast a fireball. It's all the same, different visuals. It's only when you start playing with numbers, upgrades, customization and whatnot, that bring on the so called RPG features.

That said though, we'd want to avoid the cliché line-up of magic, like fire balls, fire walls, wind blades, tidal waves, falling/rising rocks/ice blocks, lightning bolts, chain lightning...

That is if we want the game to have unique spells.


I remember playing a Japanese metroidvania called Bunny Must Die in which you could learn time-related abilities. For example, freezing time would allow you to jump onto fast-moving platforms more easily and attack enemies without worrying about getting hit, while reversing time would create a timey-wimey clone of yourself that would go back and re-press any of the switches you recently pressed in the same room. It was a pretty neat concept.



Time manipulation is cool, but so overdone these days. It's like every other game plays with rewinding, slow motion, enhanced speed or any other similar feature.

 
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Disthron



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25th July, 2010 at 17:39:53 -

For the story how about we have 2 player characters, a man and a woman?

About the play progression, I have not played wario world but I have played Super Mario World on the SNES. Is the map system people are talking about like that? If so I think that would be easer than a metroidvania style as each level can be self contained while being linked to the over wourld. You could have short cut levels, witch are more difficult, and side quest levels where you can get items witch will make life a little easier. Also, it could be cool to have them learn different movies or get better magic as the game progresses.

 
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Matthew Wiese

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25th July, 2010 at 17:57:31 -

The samurai idea could work well with being able to choose one, or all the demons to fight. And maybe even no demons (like the main character chooses to join the side of the demons and fight humanity).

 
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Strife

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25th July, 2010 at 18:06:18 -


Originally Posted by Matthew Wiese
The samurai idea could work well with being able to choose one, or all the demons to fight. And maybe even no demons (like the main character chooses to join the side of the demons and fight humanity).



Either that, or try to go for a Pacifist run. :3

Buuut I agree with HitmanN: Magic =/= RPG. There are plenty of Zelda games out there without RPG mechanics, and we all know how magical they are.

 

Watermelon876



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25th July, 2010 at 18:35:45 -

A feudal theme is an excellent idea! The game could be structured like Megaman so that you can pick which demon to fight at a time or like super metroid where you traverse through many areas to collect powerups to explore further and find the demon lords and kill them. Since this game is starting to sound a bit like a Zelda platformer, why not have two different worlds fro your character to explore? The normal world and a demon world which is dark, similar to in A Link to The Past, how there's a light world and the sacred realm. However, I think it's better to have the game inspired by feudal Japan rather than explicitly in it as otherwise, we'd need to research to mantain historical accuracy.

Moving on, the Barrack Obama idea also sounds cool!

 
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Fish20



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25th July, 2010 at 21:25:21 -


Originally Posted by Matthew Wiese
The samurai idea could work well with being able to choose one, or all the demons to fight. And maybe even no demons (like the main character chooses to join the side of the demons and fight humanity).



Yeah, plus we can have a "the dark side of the force," thing which will give the Player different powers whether he chooses the Good or Bad side. If he chooses the Demon side then he will have to fight other Samurais, but eventually at the end if he chose the Demon side there would be a "bad" ending. If he chose Humans then there would be a "good" ending.

 
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Del Duio

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25th July, 2010 at 21:45:01 -

What about if the samurai had a few types of skills and a limited amount of "skill ups" found throughout the game.

Ex.

Sword
Naginata (spear w/ a blade)
Armor
Bow & Arrow
Agility

Swords could be short ranged but powerful, naginatas would give you reach, armor of course would lessen enemy damage done to you, bow and arrows would be powerful ranged weapons but require ammo (maybe increases in skills here gave your more max arrows in your quiver?), and lastly agility which would help you move faster and perhaps jump higher as well.

Now let say each can be powered up 3 times. Each new player'd start with 0 in each. Since they're limited you could have different builds for each game and not be able to do / see everything on a single playthrough.

So how do you sweeten the deal? Simple! By completing the game you win an extra "skill up" to add to whatever skill you want and restart a new game like that. Or you save your character's stats to use for a new game later.

 
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Watermelon876



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25th July, 2010 at 21:56:09 -


Originally Posted by Fish20

Originally Posted by Matthew Wiese
The samurai idea could work well with being able to choose one, or all the demons to fight. And maybe even no demons (like the main character chooses to join the side of the demons and fight humanity).



Yeah, plus we can have a "the dark side of the force," thing which will give the Player different powers whether he chooses the Good or Bad side. If he chooses the Demon side then he will have to fight other Samurais, but eventually at the end if he chose the Demon side there would be a "bad" ending. If he chose Humans then there would be a "good" ending.



I don't think that many people will choose the dark side of the force, honestly because humans are inherently good. Better to give a series of choices not entirely good or bad and show the consequences of the players actions. Otherwise, I don't really think that the players will choose the demon side and it will be wasted work. I know that after learning the alien's story in IJI, I could never bring myself to shoot them.

 
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Fish20



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25th July, 2010 at 22:09:45 -


Originally Posted by Watermelon876

Originally Posted by Fish20

Originally Posted by Matthew Wiese
The samurai idea could work well with being able to choose one, or all the demons to fight. And maybe even no demons (like the main character chooses to join the side of the demons and fight humanity).



Yeah, plus we can have a "the dark side of the force," thing which will give the Player different powers whether he chooses the Good or Bad side. If he chooses the Demon side then he will have to fight other Samurais, but eventually at the end if he chose the Demon side there would be a "bad" ending. If he chose Humans then there would be a "good" ending.



I don't think that many people will choose the dark side of the force, honestly because humans are inherently good. Better to give a series of choices not entirely good or bad and show the consequences of the players actions. Otherwise, I don't really think that the players will choose the demon side and it will be wasted work. I know that after learning the alien's story in IJI, I could never bring myself to shoot them.



They might choose Humans first, but the game could be way different, gameplay and story wise, if they choose the demons. It's not like someone's going to play Resident Evil 2 and only play as Leon, then never go back and play the game as Claire, as Claire's scenario is different.

 
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aphant



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25th July, 2010 at 22:43:54 -

Magic itself isn't inherently RPG-like. There's greater potential in magic for it to be upgradeable, like getting a level 2 fireball, that would qualify it as being RPG. If not upgrading the spells themselves, then upgrading the character to improve casting ability.

I actually object more to the usage of having spells for navigating the environment instead of combat. It's easy to have levels that make use of the spell after it's acquired, but then what about when the player finishes the game and starts over with what they have (if we do that)? Now EVERY level has to be designed with that in mind so that the player can make use of it everywhere they go. How many layers of design do you want to put on a level so that players can use everything more often than never? I believe it'll complicate the level design process, is what I'm getting at.

I also object to having combat magic because if there is any ranged spell, then that would sort of defeat the purpose of being a samurai. Melee characters should use melee attacks, not be throwing fireballs or what have you.


We should really start with simple mechanics. The basic mechanics Jon outlined in that design document are good starting point.

 

Watermelon876



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25th July, 2010 at 23:33:07 -

the base mechanics of a samurai game should be jump and attack. Since samurai are only allowed one attack to kill their opponents, it'll be an interesting game mechanic. I figure high and low attacks should be used. You have to watch your opponents patterns to judge when to attack. Each attack must kill an enemy or you must kill yourself without showing pain to redeem your honor.

 
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Dave C



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26th July, 2010 at 01:01:29 -

I think you should all take a step back and remember what you first said.. this game should be relatively simple to make as a first attempt at a community project. A metroidvania game with magic/armour/weapons and upgrades / alternate pathways/endings etc. sounds like at least a solid years work... really probably should start with something fairly linear and not so ambitious...

 
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26th July, 2010 at 01:29:56 -

I'm on the road home at the moment, so I've only skimmed these posts about a Samurai game. Forgive me if I miss something!

My initial impressions: Idea sounds like it could be unique and good if done well, but as Dave C says, we must be sure to keep it manageable (this applies to all ideas though, just don't get carried away in excitement about a fun idea.). I'd be against any complex form of weapons upgrading. If there is a powerup system, it should probably stay limited. It shouldn't confuse players. (e.g., being given so many upgrade credits and told to distribute them. I hate that!)

Also, and the main reason I wanted to post now: Samurai game calls for fluid animation (AHEM, STRIFE. HINT HINT.) and colorful backgrounds, I think. Are those in the cards?

 

  		
  		

AndyUK

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26th July, 2010 at 01:34:40 -

As soon as I read 'Samurai game' I thought of Revenge of Shinobi on the Sega Megadrive/Genesis. That would be an excellent game to take inspiration from.

really simple game but of a very high quality.

 
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Smirnoff



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26th July, 2010 at 02:25:50 -

As stated above, simplicity is best. I see there a lot of new ideas flooding in that seem to dismiss everything that was discussed prior.

As far I as know, the progression of the game is still going with the wario land 2 style.
The samurai idea was great and I want to run with that, not get carried away.

I'm thinking the leader needs to be chosen now(Jon) and put his foot down to start making the real decisions.
I also think this kind of open forum is also starting to be less and less useful with too many people spouting ideas about too many different things.
The initial group of people that get down to work needs to be much smaller and then can grow and firm decisions are made.

So if the powers that be can make the leader official, we can really get down to work.

 
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