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Sketchy

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3rd December, 2010 at 21:12:59 -

I was planning to use pre-rendered 3d models for the units in my next game.
To be honest though, it took a lot more time and effort than I was expecting, and I'm not really happy with the end result - think I'll abandon the 3d approach

This is my attempt at a medium (or possibly heavy) tank.
Image

 
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Silveraura

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3rd December, 2010 at 21:15:41 -

I really like it. It's got a very distinct style to it.

 
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OMC

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3rd December, 2010 at 21:16:59 -


Originally Posted by SiLVERFIRE
I really like it. It's got a very distinct style to it.



Agreed. It's cartoony but not cartoony. Don't ditch it!

EDIT: Someone passing by just pointed at it and said, "pretty".

Edited by OMC

 

  		
  		

Sketchy

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3rd December, 2010 at 22:16:29 -

Thanks guys. I might go back and try again later.
Right now, I'm finishing up the map editor - and then I'll start coding the game proper.

 
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Hayo

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3rd December, 2010 at 22:25:23 -

I really like that. If you want it to look more realistic you could change the material properties a bit so it looks less like it's made out of paper (which makes it great in my opinion)

 
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Hagar

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4th December, 2010 at 00:04:19 -

Looking nice, I like it. I am also working on a similar technique (pre rendered isometric sprites) for a micromachines style game which a few people on here have seen my work (engine + graphics).

 
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UrbanMonk

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4th December, 2010 at 00:05:01 -

It does look like a paper tank...hmmm OMC?

 
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OMC

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4th December, 2010 at 00:15:47 -

I totally forgot about that!

Is this project too rooted in secrecy for even the smallest tidbit of information, Sketchy?

 

  		
  		

Dogzer



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4th December, 2010 at 04:20:38 -

best tank i've seen in a long time

 
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Don Luciano

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4th December, 2010 at 10:14:03 -

I quite like it. Im wondering how much time you needed for that.

 
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Hagar

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4th December, 2010 at 12:06:36 -

It does look like a paper "net" (I believe they was called that at school) all folded and glued to make a paper tank.

Instead of Paper Mario it could be Paper Alert

 
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Dogzer



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4th December, 2010 at 14:15:00 -

Either way I like this tank as it is right now! Got a nice cartoony feeling to it... but yeah, the texture looks a bit like paper, too soft! It could be more shiny.. or maybe have some scratches on the edges! scratches on the edges always look good!.. perhaps some subtle rusty texture, there's tons of rust textures on Google, you could try overlaying those and see what happens!

Edited by an Administrator

 
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Sketchy

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4th December, 2010 at 16:32:41 -

@Everyone:
Thanks for the nice comments and suggestions.
The plan was for something semi-cartoony, like "Batallion Wars" - unfortunately, I'm nowhere near that good.

@Hagar:
Cool - I'm looking forward to it. I love micro machines.

@OMC:
I'm making a 2-player turn-based strategy (sorry RTS fans).
It was originally going to be for the Retro competition, so I designed it such that I would be able to make it in just a few days - I've cut out the grid-based movement, pathfinding, AI, damage tables, online stuff, etc.
Unfortunately, the rules were too limiting, so I'm just going to try and give it some half-decent graphics instead.

Units have a basic 8-direction/racecar movement, and use a fixed number of Time Units per second while moving (obviously they move slower over rough terrain).
To attack, you just hold down the mouse button to aim, and release it to fire. The longer you spend aiming, the more accurate the shot will be, but the more TUs you'll use. There'll be a circle to display the radius around the target, where the shot could land. Reloading will also cost TUs.
I think it's a bit like "Ring of Red".
Capturing flags will give you money; capturing factories will let you deploy new units; capturing the enemy HQ means victory.
That's basically it.

@Don Luciano:
It took most of the afternoon. which is way longer than I wanted to spend on it.

@Someone who knows about 3d modelling:
Is there any way to make parts of single face more shiny than others? Like some kind of shininess map that you apply like a texture? For example, if I wanted to make a dice model, how could I texture a simple cube, such that the spots are more shiny than the background?
I know it's not possible in the software I use (Milkshape3D), but maybe in another freeware app?
That would be *so* useful.

 
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UrbanMonk

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4th December, 2010 at 17:36:10 -

@Sketchy's reply to OMC:
Oh my God...

 
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chrilley

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4th December, 2010 at 18:36:14 -

@ Sketchy: Look up Specular and Gloss maps, it's almost exactly like the "shininess map" you're looking for.

 
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Pan-tosser



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4th December, 2010 at 18:38:36 -

this game sounds interesting. do you have a project page for it.

 
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4th December, 2010 at 19:10:48 -

Hah. That was an idea I was trying to convince UrbanMonk to make with me eventually.

Though a little different in the details, I'm sure. Did anyone ever play Paper Paintball in school? Best game ever. All kinds of different units and traps and hospitals and rivers and mines and turrets and stuff.

I obviously like the idea, so good luck!

 

  		
  		

Marko

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4th December, 2010 at 20:10:53 -

I love the tank too, though maybe if you could make a few individual panels a slightly lighter/darker shade it'd look more realistic without losing the semi-cartoonyness to it.

Great English there, folks!

 
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Sketchy

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4th December, 2010 at 23:56:33 -

@OMC:
Great minds think alike!

@Chrilley:
Thankyou so much. Specular maps seem to be exactly what I'm looking for, and Anim8or supports them


Anyway, here's a more realistic version.
Obviously some parts still need work, like the top of the chassis, the sides of the turret, the wheels, etc...
Think I preferred the original - somehow it just looks more futuristic without the dirt.
Also seem to have lost a gun - not sure how that happened
Image


 
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Hagar

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5th December, 2010 at 14:44:59 -

Looking nice but I also prefer the original for some reason...

I still use TrueSpace (too lazy to learn anything else) and I am hoping to get a preview video in the Christmas klik cast...

 
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Dogzer



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5th December, 2010 at 16:08:28 -

@hagar AWESOME, i loved truespace!!!!! I started 3d with truespace 1.0, it came in 4 floppy disks!

 
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aphant



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5th December, 2010 at 16:26:06 -

Can you get a shot of how big you'd want the sprite to be in game, with both textures? The realistic texture doesn't look as good at this size (see tread area), but it might not be an issue if you plan on working with a small sprite.

 

Sketchy

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5th December, 2010 at 16:38:06 -

It'll be really small - maybe 50x50 or less.
However, I might also have a screen displaying the stats of each unit, along with a bigger picture.

I'll probably go with something more like the original, but increase the texture resolution and add some low-contrast unit markings.
A bit like this:
Image
(only better)

Either that, or just pixel them by hand.

Edited by Sketchy

 
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aphant



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5th December, 2010 at 17:00:37 -

Depending on how many units you have and how many directions you want them to face, I would say that you should stick with the pre-rendered approach. It'll be faster to model units and then capture the sprites from multiple angles than it would to pixel them by hand. Bonus: You'll get more familiar (theoretically anyways) with the 3D software in the process, and be able to model other units slightly faster.

 

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6th December, 2010 at 05:49:13 -

I think the texture might be the better than the other options. If it was just textured a little here and their.

 
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Hagar

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6th December, 2010 at 13:28:04 -

I would stick with 3D pre-renders. I find it a lot easier to make the other directions (its merely rotation on one axis). Plus at 50 x 50 I think those models will look great as is.

@Dogzer: I started with TrueSpace 2.0 in 1999 I think. The install files was 7 megabytes total.

I use TrueSpace 3.2 these days, TrueSpace 6 and 7 are quite different and I am happy with the graphics I can get with it anyway.



 
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Jenswa

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10th December, 2010 at 19:57:07 -

Like the model too, both, but I think I am more into less realistic objects.

A turn-based game can be quite a fun! See advance wars for example or civilization.

You can also import your tank model (if exported as an obj format file) in my SpaceCraftDemo since that's a software 3D engine with obj support build in java. But it might be a little slow with lot's of models in the field. Ow wait you're not discussing 3D vs pre-rendered 3D in 2D, oops my mistake.

I would go for pre-rendered 3D models instead of manually pixel-ed ones.

 
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Sketchy

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11th December, 2010 at 02:08:39 -

Yeah, I love Advance Wars / Fire Emblem etc.
Been meaning to make an AW clone for years (that's not what this is for though).

As for the 3d models - turns out I'm going to be using them at about 35x35 pixel size - otherwise the map will feel too cramped (already had to double the map size once) - it does mean that all the detail in the textures is lost anyway though.
Hull and turret will be two separate objects, and both will be pre-rendered from 32 directions. It'll be tedious as hell, but worth it I think. No animation at least.

Anyway - a quick progress report:
* Map editor is done.
* Map loading is done.
* Switching players is done.
* Unit selection & movement is done.
* Aiming is mostly done.
* Next up is finishing the shooting and damage system...

Graphics are still placeholders and everything you see will be re-drawn eventually.
Image

 
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aphant



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11th December, 2010 at 15:09:05 -

Pre-rendering from multiple directions is easy, if you have a little know how.

Create a cylinder with 32 faces. Align the center of the cylinder with the center of the model (which should be at 0,0,0 for simplicity). Raise or lower the top of the cylinder to the desired height of the camera. Then, place a camera at each vertex, pointing it towards the point of origin. Now you have 32 cameras all pointing towards your model, and you should also have a consistent model scale for all of your units. All you have to do then is render images out from each camera!

Of course this assumes that the software you're using can support multiple render cameras, and that you're doing an isometric type of view for the units.

As for the lack of detail, that's where it helps to exaggerate certain features of the model itself and make the important bits stand out. The treads and turret of a tank would be good candidates, for example.

 

Hagar

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11th December, 2010 at 15:39:33 -

Sounds a bit heavy for my liking Aphant, also surely you light source positions will be all over the place in the final product.

Here is how I render my frames.

1) Join all parts together by adding them as children to the main object body.
2) Using the axis tools centre the axis in the middle of all of the objects
3) go to an overhead view and rotate the object as needs be for you desired view (i.e. iso)
4) for each frame set the rotation of the Z axis to i * 360 / 32, where is is your frame number

Render and import, job done with yoru light source staying in the same position . Really quick too.

Edited by an Administrator

 
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Sketchy

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11th December, 2010 at 15:43:55 -

Thanks, but that's just the quick and easy part. Don't really need the cylinder trick - can just rotate the model by 11.25 degrees (plus whatever elevation I decide on).
I then need to resize and correct the images, and import them all into MMF2.

The problem is that there are going to be some simple things I have to do, like clicking the "save" button - and I'll have to do them all 448 times (32 direcions x 14 units).
I think I might give "SpriteForge Lite" a try: http://www.d-grafix.com/?page=spriteforge#SCR

Now that I think about it though, I can probably automate most of it.
I can use a script to batch process the images in PSP9, and then if I put each image in a different frame of the same direction (instead of a different direction), then I can use MMF2's batch import tool. That way I could also use more than 32-directions if I wanted (the movement is 360 degree).


EDIT: Hagar - I see you had the same idea

Edited by Sketchy

 
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Hagar

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11th December, 2010 at 15:53:33 -

I have used that method - only way really.

Hardest part was figuring out how to remove the aliasing, as my sprite are relatively large compared to 50x50 ish

 
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aphant



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12th December, 2010 at 14:37:59 -

Are you able to change the output size and disable the anti-aliasing on the renderer? That could save you a lot of time. The most you'd have to do then is automate the cropping, which you could get done in either MMF or PSP.

 

Hagar

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You've Been Circy'd!Teddy Bear
12th December, 2010 at 14:43:54 -

TrueSpace the antialising is seletable, so it can just be imported straight into MMF.

Or you can leave it on and import the animation into gimp (with a plugin or whatver software you prefer) and remove the backdrop aliasing (so the object itself still looks pretty).



 
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Sketchy

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12th December, 2010 at 17:54:27 -

Can't you just render the image as a .png with alpha channel transparency?
That way the anti-aliased edges would actually look good (depending on the style you're going for).

 
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Hagar

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You've Been Circy'd!Teddy Bear
12th December, 2010 at 19:03:50 -

Version of truespace i am using is before png came out, so no lol.

Best i have got is rendering and removing back drop. Turning on AA in MMF then does the AA on the edges in real time so it makes it all look pretty again.

 
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The Chris Street

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13th December, 2010 at 15:52:10 -

A tank made out of sick bags

I jest. It's really good

 
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Sketchy

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13th December, 2010 at 19:41:16 -

Thanks - I think...

Making papercraft tanks seems to be quite a popular hobby:
http://ninjatoes.wordpress.com/category/advance-wars/blue-moon/
I think it would be cool to make a game where everything looks papercraft like that.

 
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Zethell

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15th December, 2010 at 08:27:37 -

I love it.
Everything about it just feels so unique.

 
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Jenswa

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15th December, 2010 at 18:25:27 -

Those are some nice papercraft tanks, are you going to make yours a little bit like them?

 
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