Greetings!
Ok, heres the situation, in a nutshell...
Im creating an interactive animated movie/game based on the arcade classic 'Space Ace' by Don Bluth...this is a 'follow up' game, wherein the player controls Dexter/Aces girlfriend, Kimberly, as she attempts escape from the Evil Borf!
Everything works great so far using the wonderful 'Games Factory' to create this thing (animations change as they should when the player hits the appropriate keys, etc)...but Ive run into a sliiiight problem...
Has anyone here ever attempted to load animations into the ACTIVE OBJECT field, and been LIMITED as to the number of frames you can import, one at a time?
The problem varies per level of the game, I have found...you are going along, adding one frame at a time ('Capture full frame...ok...frame is added', etc) and then I hit a high number, usually around or over 100...and that last box/frame on the animation timeline refuses to 'accept' the current frame I am attempting to add!
It just keeps coming up as a blank white frame!
I have attempted closing the entire program, and going back to where I was initially attempting to add the frames, and when I 'get lucky' it will occassionally let me add one or two...then the same thing occurs....
Might this be a RAM issue??
I actually emailed the CLICK TEAM guys that created Games Factory, and asked THEM about it, and all they had to say was 'it shouldnt do that, the GF is able to add limitless animation frames.'
Any ideas or thoughts on this would GREATLY be appreiated!
Please email me at...
karcreat@icehouse.net
I rarely go online anymore for anything other than reference material for work/projects, so it maybe awhile until Im back here at the board...
THANKS in advance for any advice anyone can spare!
Kevin
PS...If you are a fan of the original 'Space Ace' and want to see the game so far, frames, etc...check out...
Hmm... it could possibly be RAM. I would say it has to be memory-related since I'm unaware of any limit on the number of animation frames in TGF. I know with MMF I've added animations to active objects that are 1000's of frames; that reminds me, are you adding it frame-by-frame or are you adding an animation file? Perhaps you could try using VFW or some other program to create an animation, then add the animation as an Active Object.
If it doesnt work, try downloading the MMF demo and adding your animation to a blank frame in that. If it works, you might need to consider upgrading. Discounts I think still apply to TGF owners.
Mike
"Now I guess we're... 'Path-E-Tech Management'" -Dilbert
Im adding the frames one at a time, asthis is neccesary in order to see each individual frame and what number in the timeline they correspond to, so I can assign the players responses (ie, if player hits 'left arrow key' between frames 60 and 67, go to animation sequence 2, etc)
Whats VFW?
(Can you tell Im still new to all of this?...
I would consider making the jump to MMF, but the demo doesnt allow saving/distributing the finished games, right?
Also, would I be able to import the current GF '.gam'file into MMF?
You're right, the MMF demo doesnt allow you to save files, I'm simply saying you should try to add the animation sequences to that so you can see if it's just a problem with TGF.
Yes, MMF does open TGF files.
VFW = Video For Windows... it allows you to turn video files into animation files (FLIC or AVI), which makes importing a lot easier since you only have to go "Import Animation" and load all the files at once instead of doing it frame-by-frame. You use strings like "myanim_#.bmp" or something like that, and it replaces the # with a number as it goes through. So if you have the files myanim_1.bmp to myanim_1000.bmp it will add them to an animation automatically. It's free to download (there used to be a link on the CT website, so I'd check there first, otherwise just do a search.
Mike
"Now I guess we're... 'Path-E-Tech Management'" -Dilbert
I stopped into a this (?) kind a propblem, if i know whatīs going on..(see, normally i pressed enter around this section of the text..) I did some very framely animation which had got about
150 frames. after the frame 151 the GF didnīt wanted to do any frames anymore..
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If it is a ram thing, restart your computer and try again. That should free up your ram.
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Ive tried that...AND simply closing the entire prorgam, and reopening it...occassionally it WILL let me add an additional frame or two to the sequence in question, then it does the same thing again...primarily, THAT is whats making me think it may be a RAM issue...would adding more RAM to my system help, do you think?
How much RAM do you have ATM? If you have less than 512 then I recommend getting more, anything less than 256 then I STRONGLY RECOMMEND getting more.
It doesnt matter whether you use DDR or SD since it's not the speed of the RAM that's causing the problem, but the amount of information that is trying to be stored within it.
Mike
"Now I guess we're... 'Path-E-Tech Management'" -Dilbert
I currently have 640.00 RAM...is this the problem, do you think?
Im HOPING it is, as I downloaded the MMF demo, opened the file in it...and its WAAY more difficult to figure out than GF or CNC was!...
For one thing, it doesnt tell you how to simply add one frame of animation at a time to existing sequences...in GF or CNC, you opened the 'Animation Properties' and simply clicked on the last frame (blank white) on the right of the sequence to add a new frame....MMF doesnt seem to have this feature, and the set up is too complicated...all I want to do is continue to use GF to do all this (I JUST learned THAT sans instructions, so if its possible, I would like to continue using it...plus, I cant afford the 99.00 asking price for MMF!)
....?
Why did that last post of mine come up TWICE...and the fisrt one is only HALF of what I wrote, I wonder?
(This particular BBS wont let me edit or erase that 'half' one either...WEIRD!...
Thats enough ram for sure, I have less then that and I never have problems. So you can add a few everytime you restart, but you need to add over 100? If you want you could send it to me or someone else and see if they can do it, but if you have to do it alot that wont work ethir. Ah well, its not your ram for sure (unless its defective ram).
We are the music makers, we are the dreamers of dreams...
If its 'not the RAM for sure'...what could it be that is preventing me from adding frames?
Too small of a harddrive? (I have a 14GB, and its about 1/2 full)...something else??
I would send you what I have done so far, but its weighing in at 165MB...
I was SURE it had to be a RAM issue, as I am sometimes able to add one or two frames to an animation that previously I WAS NOT able to, after I reopen the program...then it stops again, and I attempt to reclose/open, and its a 'no go'...
I REALLY need to determine whats wrong here, Im excited that the game actually WORKS in GF, its just that the problems its causing are halting further developments/additions...;(
640mb... other than being a strange number, is ample. Though you mentioned only having a 14gb HDD... perhaps the problem is indirectly related to the RAM in this respect (i.e. the RAM becomes full so Windows uses Virtual Memory instead, but since you dont have a lot of HDD space, it's causing a problem). Though you'd need to be adding a couple hundred frames of a pretty large size to fill up that much RAM in the first place.
I recommend trying the MMF demo before you try to think any further on this issue. It may end up being a limitation on the software. I dont know who you emailed at CT, but if it wasnt one of the programmers, then they may not be aware of the limitation if it does exist. Like I said, I've added animations that are 1000's of frames to an active object, and I only have 512mb DDR, and I've had no problems at all.
Mike
"Now I guess we're... 'Path-E-Tech Management'" -Dilbert
Thanks...sorry about that, I think it was 'my bad'...
640mb... other than being a strange number, is ample.
Why is that a 'strange number'? (NOW ya got me all worried and what not!...
Though you mentioned only having a 14gb HDD... perhaps the problem is indirectly related to the RAM in this respect (i.e. the RAM becomes full so Windows uses Virtual Memory instead, but since you dont have a lot of HDD space, it's causing a problem).
I currently have TWO drives, one is 14GB, the other about 19GB..a friend has offered me a 60GB, would this help, ya think?...
Though you'd need to be adding a couple hundred frames of a pretty large size to fill up that much RAM in the first place.
Each frame of animation is about 65kb...there are about 40 animations so far, each ranging from 12 to 202 frames each...
I recommend trying the MMF demo before you try to think any further on this issue.
I did.
Found it rather overwhelming, sans detailed instructions (like the simple task of importing animations, one at a time, which was so 'self obvious' to figure in CNC and GF...
It may end up being a limitation on the software. I dont know who you emailed at CT, but if it wasnt one of the programmers, then they may not be aware of the limitation if it does exist.
Not sure who it was, but I sent the email via their 'form' you fill out on the website @ Click Team...
They stated that 'there was no limitation on the number or size of animations you can add, and the problem is a mystery'....
Like I said, I've added animations that are 1000's of frames to an active object, and I only have 512mb DDR, and I've had no problems at all.
What screen size and file size are these animations?
Are there a limited number to each SET of animations (ie, 'RUNNING', 'WALKING', 'CLIMBING', etc...each adding UP to 1000s of frames?)
Thanks for your input, Im checking back here on a regular basis now to see what everyone has to say on this, as I could use the help and I aint afraid to ask!...
In MMF you can add any number of animations. Just remember, everything is RIGHT-CLICK based...right-click to insert object, right-click to insert anim, right-click to insert direction, right-click to edit frame....
I may have a *possible* work around for you. Load in frames in a "load" object(in TGF), then copy it over to your other objects.
I would however recommend upgrading to MMF. I thought TGF was great, but after getting over MMF's interface I realized it's way more powerful.
Heres a question for ya, why are you making a 165+ meg game!? Good god! lol
I really doubt your problems are related to your HD space and RAM (As far as the size goes) Though I do think its POSSIBLE you could be filling up your ram somehow (Perhaps with added programs running in the background)
Since you have the HD space to spare, heres somthing you can try. I dont know if what OS your using, but heres how to do it with XP.
Go to control panel, System, ADVANCED tab, under PERFORMANCE click SETTINGS, ADVANCED tab. At the bottom it says Virtual memory, click CHANGE. Click CUSTOM SIZE: and then put in 1000 in both fields.
Dont worry it shouldnt mess anything up, if you want to change it back just choose System managed size. I did it with my system and it boosts performance a bit. But then again I have 256 RAM.
We are the music makers, we are the dreamers of dreams...
Heres a question for ya, why are you making a 165+ meg game!? Good god! lol
No other way to do this sort of thing, as far as my inexperience goes, I have to admit...the premise to the entire thing, after all, is the player being able to interact/effect an animated short film...and you need all the frames there to tell GF where to do each particular thing...ie, 'frame 47' is where an animation may be keyed by the player (vie the keyboard) to switch instantly over to animation 2, and so on...
So far I have created about 68 seconds of full interactive animation, which includes camera movements (panning, zooming, etc) and character control situations.
If you honestly know of a different (ie, BETTER!... way to do this sort of thing, believe me...Im all ears!...
I really doubt your problems are related to your HD space and RAM (As far as the size goes) Though I do think its POSSIBLE you could be filling up your ram somehow (Perhaps with added programs running in the background)
I close EVERYTHING that COULD be running when working on this project...and it STILL takes up to a full 2 minutes to LOAD the 'gam file, or open subfiles (in the Storyboard Editor)...doesnt THAT sound RAM related? I mean, it SEEMS that way....
Since you have the HD space to spare, heres somthing you can try. I dont know if what OS your using, but heres how to do it with XP.
XP...I WISH I had XP!...
Naaah, Im stuck with ME...came with the system, via Gateway and the credit card plan...
Go to control panel, System, ADVANCED tab, under PERFORMANCE click SETTINGS, ADVANCED tab. At the bottom it says Virtual memory, click CHANGE. Click CUSTOM SIZE: and then put in 1000 in both fields.
Hi again
640mb is strange because ram usually works using numbers in base-2. That is 32, 64, 128, 256, 512, etc. You must have a 512 and a 128? (*Calculates in head) yeah, I think that's right. Seems like a strange combination.
Anyway, that's beside the point. The fact that you have 2 HDD's (one a 14gb the other a 19gb) doesnt make a difference -- virtual memory (AFAIK) only uses the main drive (at least by default). You can increase it, thought with only 14gb I wouldnt recommend doing that anyway.
I suppose I have to ask why a computer with only 14gb has 640mb of ram? I doubt you could install a program on that drive that utilised all that memory But I digress, once again.
Using the 60gb might fix the problem. If you do that, you'd need to increase your VM, however, or there will be no difference.
1. Under "Control Panel" double-click the "System" icon.
2. Click the "Advanced" tab.
3. Under "Performance" click "Settings".
4. From the dialog select the "Advanced" tab.
5. Under "Virtual Memory" click "Change".
6. If not already selected, click the "Custom" radio button.
7. Increase the "Initial" and "Max" values above what they were previously.
8. Click "Set" then OK out of the dialogs.
It's impossible for me to say what you should increase your page file size to, unfortunately, it depends on how much memory you can spare, and how much you want to keep free. It's up to you.
As far as the MMF demo goes, open the animation editor then click File -> Import -> Image to import a picture into the animation.
The animations I was importing into my own app were 320x240 in size, 32-bit colour bitmaps. I cant remember off the top of my head how big they were in terms of file size, it would have been a couple hundred kb each. Though I only did some of them manually -- the rest I got bored for, so I turned them into an AVI then simply imported the animation into the active object instead to save LOTS of time.
As far as limitations on the animation sequences, I am not sure. That's another question for one of the programmers at CT
Mike
"Now I guess we're... 'Path-E-Tech Management'" -Dilbert
As far as the MMF demo goes, open the animation editor then click File -> Import -> Image to import a picture into the animation.
I figured that out, yes...but unfortuantely, there is this odd aspect to MMF that created the new frames of animation 'off centered' to the existing frames...when you played back (tested) the sequence, the frames I had imported originally were all neatly centered onscreen...then the NEW frames I added in MMF appeared, and they were all off centered, with the top and upper right area of the screen 'white' or blank...and the lower right and bottom of the animation from that point on was in the bottom of the screen...what gives?
How do you 'center' the new frames, and why didnt they just automatically center when I imported them, to correspond with the EXISTING set of frames?
The animations I was importing into my own app were 320x240 in size, 32-bit colour bitmaps.
Same size here, but Im using GIFs, as they are supposed to be somewhat smaller files...
I cant remember off the top of my head how big they were in terms of file size, it would have been a couple hundred kb each.
Mine average about 64kb.
Though I only did some of them manually -- the rest I got bored for, so I turned them into an AVI then simply imported the animation into the active object instead to save LOTS of time.
I cant do that, unfortunatley, as I need to see all the frames of animation seperately, in order to assign scene changes and sounds to exact frames of the work...(ie, 'frame 55 of USER ANIMATION 1 plays a WAV file, between frames 55 and 59 if user clicks left arrow key, change animation sequence to USER ANIMATION 2', etc)
If I import an AVI instead, it will be imported as an AVI movie, not frame by frame so I can see the frames individually...
Kevin: And then you right click the AVI and select "create active object" and it makes a nice active object for you with all the frames.
Ofcourse you need the avi frames to be in the right order or you'll have to go through them and rearrange them.
Kevin: With numlock on, you can align hotspots and actionspots using the keypad(5 = center, 1 = bottomleft, etc). You can also click the tabs at the bottom of the screen to flip between frames. In such a way I was able to rapidly set 60 frames centered in under 5 minutes. Not too long.
ShadowCaster: Ahhh . My C: is 9gb!(6gb full). I have 512mb of ram, but would have more if I didn't have windows 98. I was actually going to get 2gb, but when win98 didn't accept more than 512mb, the store agreed to take the ram back. Oh, and I have 1.5gb of VRAM.
Hey Kramy!
Ok, lets see what ya had to say, and what I have to say...
************
...And then you right click the AVI and select "create active object" and it makes a nice active object for you with all the frames.
Ofcourse you need the avi frames to be in the right order or you'll have to go through them and rearrange them.
Ok, so how do I import the AVI into the storyboard sequence to bigin with?
Do I go to 'new active object', etc?
Kevin: With numlock on, you can align hotspots and actionspots...
??
Ok, see, this is where my 'newbie' status comes shining thru...
I dont even know what a 'hot spot' or 'action spot' is, as I have yet to have a need for them (I suppose!) in the few games I have created thus far...
Hot Spot: the "center" of your image to make things line up correctly, even if frames have different sizes, and to line things up between different animation sequences. In MMF, click the icon that looks like a fire.
Action Spot: The position of the object where new objects will be created under the "Shoot From Object" action. For example, place this at the tip of a gun if you want it to fire a bullet from there.
I hope that made sense
Mike
"Now I guess we're... 'Path-E-Tech Management'" -Dilbert
I mean, under the animation editor you import the AVI... which imports them as individual frames in your animation.
This is in GF???
Once I open the animation editor (to add frames, etc, in the active object)I dont see any way to do that...I tried 'right clicking' the empty frame, where the new animation pic (frame) would go, but there was no option like that...
Hot Spot: the "center" of your image to make things line up correctly, even if frames have different sizes, and to line things up between different animation sequences. In MMF, click the icon that looks like a fire.
Hmmm...will check it out...
Action Spot: The position of the object where new objects will be created under the "Shoot From Object" action. For example, place this at the tip of a gun if you want it to fire a bullet from there.
I hope that made sense
I THINK it did...
I will need to try it out to make sure...thanks!!!
I meant in MMF you can import video files directly into the animation editor. Sorry if I wasnt clear.
Thats ok...
However, in GF and CNC, the AVIs I tried to import never got saved with the rest of the game files, they always seemed to be stored seperately...does MMF store them with the game files, thus installing them as part of the game...or do you need to save them all seperately?
MMF should import the avi's and save them as an active objects, unless you specify otherwise(by importing into an avi-playing object instead). Ask SC to be sure though, because I always use the right-click---->>>>insert object----->>>>>from file method.
Thanks, I will give it a shot...
I want to thank EVERYONE here that keeps giving their support/input to my problem, I really appreciate it!
On a side note, does anyone know if importing an AVI file is smaller sized in the long run than importing an 'animation' one frame at a time (GIFs)?
I know that MMF is the superior product for this sort of project, but I honestly cannot afford the 99.00 price tag at the moment, and Im hoping to find a way to get what I have already (GF) to do this...
Importing an avi all at once, or frame by frame, will cause no difference in the end file size, because they are both methods of converting a file into what the game will read. One is just a faster method.
I'm guessing MMF has better compression though due to being made later, but that will only slightly shrink the amount of harddrive space it takes up.
I already told him how to increase his VM shadowcaster, silly goose.
With windows ME your just asking for trouble, when I switched from ME to XP, my computer became usable again, and im a neat freak computerwise. (As in, I keep it clean and runnin smooth)
We are the music makers, we are the dreamers of dreams...
Im actually hoping to upgrade to XP soon (within this month)...but when I attempted installing it recently, I was informed by Windows that I needed to back up several programs that would 'be lost' in the transistion, so Im workin' on doin' just that...
On a related note, it has been suggested that I import AVI files of each animation, rather than importing them a frame at a time...however, if I do this, I go to save the entire game file and I am always irritated to get a message from GF (or CNC) stating that the AVI file is stored in a seperate directory than the game, and this will cause problems for folks attempting to play it, if I distribute it...
Does this mean that when I make a CD of the game, I need to include all the AVI files seperately from the saved game on the CD??
If so, this will mean a MONSTER sized file PLUS large AVIs...rather than just animation frames...unless GF can import compressed (DivX) AVI files?
Can someone with 'The Knowledge' let me know about these two points?...
Well if you are storing the avi's seperatly, you should be able to run the game if the avi's are in the same directory as execute, being so, it should work if you store the external avi's with the execute on the CD (No subfolders) of course you can tell it subfolders if you want. Im not sure if I am awnsering your question.
We are the music makers, we are the dreamers of dreams...
What I really am asking is if, when your game is finished, and you go to create the EXE file (no INSTALL feature, just the EXE, as I do NOT want the player to have to INSTALL the game to their harddrive, I want them to be able to play it off the CD drive), will GF include the AVI files as part of the finished game, or will I need to have them on the CD for the final EXE file to locate them and access them...also, will the EXE file be able to locate them on the CD if it DOESNT include them as part of the EXE file?
I was also needing to know if GF imports compressed (DivX) AVIs....
GF should include them (I think) into the execute, unless you specify otherwise, I forget if you can with GF. With mmf, you can use external files and specify the directory, or a command to FIND the directory of the execute (If all your external files are in the same folder, if not you can add a subfolder on the end).
We are the music makers, we are the dreamers of dreams...
Hmmm...no way to really tell (about the external storage thing) unless I create a game, and try to burn/test it, I guess...unless someone else has a take on it?
I would really appreciate some solid 'experience' in this area, concerning GF...thanks!
Well just complile an execute, move the execute to a different folder, if it works (and its a large size) then the avis are stored inside. If you move the exe away from the external avis theres no way it can use them.
We are the music makers, we are the dreamers of dreams...
Well just complile an execute, move the execute to a different folder, if it works (and its a large size) then the avis are stored inside. If you move the exe away from the external avis theres no way it can use them.
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Well, I WAS sortta hoping someone here would just KNOW in advance how this works (or if it doesnt) before I take the time to create the game...
All I need to know is...
1.If the finished EXE file contains any AVIs you imported in the creation of the file, and...
2.Does GF import compressed DivX AVIs?
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Mike 
. My C: is 9gb!(6gb full). I have 512mb of ram, but would have more if I didn't have windows 98. I was actually going to get 2gb, but when win98 didn't accept more than 512mb, the store agreed to take the ram back. Oh, and I have 1.5gb of VRAM.
