Well I've been working with TGF for a couple of years now. I've become quite good at kliking (except I haven't figured out cutom movement or advanced math yet ^^)
But now I feel that TGF puts a limit to what I can do.
I love 2D games, and where I come from I could probably be considered the last defender of the 2D games
BUT 3D ain't that bad either. I know that Jamagic also can do 2D games (obviously).
My question is:
Should I go with the almighty MMF, or should I try on Jamagic?
I'm asking this because I only have enough money to buy one of them.
Mendokuse...
Pete Nattress Cheesy Bits img src/uploads/sccheesegif
Registered 23/09/2002
Points 4811
30th March, 2004 at 10:34:21 -
jama will require much more application on your part. you will have to learn a new language, and unless you know java you might find that hard. MMF is merely a step up from TGF so once you get used to the new interface it is almost the same, the only difference being that it's far more functional. so it's not just a question of money, but also time. if you plan on a career in programming jama may be a step in the right direction, but if you want to keeop game making as a hobby you're best off sticking with MMF.
demos are evil... i tryed both demos and hated both for their confusing structure... but no i own mmf and i like it, demos are not always a good way to adjust
"demos are evil... i tryed both demos and hated both for their confusing structure... but no i own mmf and i like it, demos are not always a good way to adjust"
so it takes more than 30 days to get used to mmf?
but i bet jamaigc takes longer since its uses scripting
i downoaded the jamagic demo a while ago, but i had absoulutly no clue about scrpting, so i did'nt do very good on it
if i downloaded it now id probably do a bit better, but i have dark basic (and im actually quite good at it) now, so i dont really need jamajic
I downloaded the TGF demo, and it wouldn't let me create new frames.(so I bought it) I downloaded the MMF demo and it crashed with an illegal opperation when starting.(so I bought it) I downloaded the Jamagic Demo, and due to my system clock being set wrong it locked me out before I knew a bit about Jamascript.(so I bought it)
Jamagic can do more than MMF, but MMF is easier to learn/use. MMF is slower though.
Right now I'm busy constructing a 2D engine in Jamagic. Currently it only has tile-scrolling, but it does that at 160fps.
Still, as Pete said, MMF is probably best unless you plan on a career in programming.(Which I do)
I was aware of the fact that I'd had to learn the Jama language in order to use it. And I wasn't afraid of it either. (In fact I think it would be fun to actually do some scripting by MYSELF, and not rely on a "ready-to-do-your-job" program) now don't think that I spit on TGF and MMF. Those are wonderful programs and I love'em.
But it would be cool to actually know a scripting language (and feel more professional when scripting)
When I read about Jama and it's scripting language and it didn't seem too hard to learn (read about all the basic, fundamental stuff)
I'm also going for the pro versions. Why? Because I know that if I buy the cheaper version I'll eventually start asking myself "WHY DIDN'T I BUY THE PRO VERSION???" (Did that with TGF) You can all debate wether I'm a stupid idiot or a smart guy buying PRO- versions. That won't change my thinking.
So where the fuck am I going with this post???
Nowhere actually, I just wanted to explain the way I think about this. But I will probably get MMF ^^
"Say you're hanging from a huge cliff at the top of mt. everest and a guy comes along and says he'll save you, and proceeds to throw religious pamphlets at you while simultaniously giving a sermon." - Dustin G
I have used KNP,TGF,MMF,Jamagic,C++,Java,JavaScript,DarkBasic,QBasic,VisualBasic.
Overall, If you want ease of use yet power without alot of time, go with mmf. MMF is perfect for almost any 2d game you could possibly think of without too much work.
Jamagic is easy to use, and powerful with coding, and and Object Oriented structures. It is good for 2d games, Applications, and simple 3d stuff with just a small amount of learning work.
C++/Irrlicht is good for 3d work, if you dont mind learning c++.
For 2D I still think MMF is the best and requires much less work then Jamagic. As for 3D, my opinion is that Jama is one of the worst 3D engines around, it's very outdated compared to the others in it's class (Torque, DarkBasic, DarkBasic Pro, 3D GameStudio A6). If you want to get into 3D game design, you could learn C++ which may be a lot of work to do, or you could use one of the engines I named before. I just wouldn't get Jama for 3D games, the other ones are superior by far in the 3D area.
You're looking at Jamagic as though it's never going to have another update. The 3D engine is going to be updated to DirectX 9 (and I supposed one of the later versions of OpenGL as well). You're also looking at it as though scripting means more work, depending on what you're doing it doesn't.
I'm sure it will be updated sometime, but the question is always when.... While most of the others have been updated already for DX9 or do implement features similair to the DX9 features already, Jama hasn't even seen a major update yet (only bug release updates). Jama has been out for far over 2 years and that without a major update, while in that time we've seen DX7, DX8 and DX9 released. Doesn't look to me like it's moving with the market.
Another thing is, we haven't seen any really good 3D games that can compete with some of the many comercial released titles created with the Torque engine, DarkBasic/DarkBasic Pro, Blitz3D or 3D GameStudio. While the most of the other engines update on a frequent basis implemeting new features every few months (and also take of bugs besides that), Jamagic doesn't do that at all.
All of this is very contrary to the way MMF is treated, new features added on a regular basis, much more updates released and most of these updates are very exciting too. That's why I recommend MMF instead of Jama for 2D and don't recommend Jama for 3D at all.
I don't want to buy Jama and wait for the updates to come while I can have all of the features Jama may add in the future, now already by getting some other 3D game engine, that has proven it's worth. Jama hasn't (yet). And it isn't a matter of money either Jama isn't more or less expensive then most of the others either.
As for the scripting I'm talking about creating a full game with several levels. I did that on MMF many times and created some quite complex games with over 30 levels in a few months. Don't even try the same with C++ or a cripting based engine, it's not going to happen. Clicking is way faster then scripting or coding. Also you have to take in account that you do have to master the coding or scripting language first and even that can take anywhere from a few months to a few years. Learing MMF goes lot's and lot's faster.
Funny. I learned the fundementals of Jamascript in 1.5 days. Now whenever I need a new object, I just look it up in the reference, and everything goes fine.
In 3 days I made a perfect block collision system(in jamagic). Still working on figuring out uneven slopes though.(not working right with gravity)
It took me 2 days(about 6 hours) to create a tile-scrolling system, a crude editor for dropping tiles, and an interface. Ofcourse I'm stuck in some other areas(semi-transparency), but meh.
All in all though, if you get Jamagic for 3D, and you're an amateur in concepts, you're screwed. To get Jamagic to work 3D, you MUST make a professional system, because unlike other programs, if you do something 3D in Jamagic in a crude way, the program will make it look awful.
An example would be building a tile-loading system(like DungeonSiege) then building your world from that(professional), or just throwing 3D models into the game.(crude)
I had to learn all those during piano lessons =( I remember laughing out loud in orchestra when a piece of sheet music, having seemed to give up on all the Italian terms, had an instruction "A trifle faster".
With fifth-generation languages such as MMFusion (at least, that's what my Computer Science tutor told me to say) becoming more popular, though, is a knowledge of a comparatively lower level language like C++ going to even be necessary in the future? (I certainly hope not, if my attempt at learning C for University is anything to go by.)
Actually, that paragraph sounded rather good, I think I'll put it in my essay due in next week.
Maybe not necessary but the chances are, C/C++ will never become extinct. Being one of the most powerful, versatile, bug-free and popular languages ever made, I think it'll be the favourite for a long time to come (unless a better one comes out, obviously. But I doubt it)
"Say you're hanging from a huge cliff at the top of mt. everest and a guy comes along and says he'll save you, and proceeds to throw religious pamphlets at you while simultaniously giving a sermon." - Dustin G
Looks almost identical to C . Can't be better though, or it'd be more popular
Edit: Actually it might be
Edited by the Author.
"Say you're hanging from a huge cliff at the top of mt. everest and a guy comes along and says he'll save you, and proceeds to throw religious pamphlets at you while simultaniously giving a sermon." - Dustin G
I read over the comparison of D to other languages, which made my head hurt. I'm rather pleased that I don't know what Thread Synchronisation Primitives and Covariant Return Types are (and will be until I'm asked about them in my exam).
Of course, lower level languages will always be necessary... but does a lower level language necessarily equate to greater power or control?
"Necessarily equate"?! I'm sounding a right ponce just now. Sorry, I'm in Essay Mode at the moment.
"Say you're hanging from a huge cliff at the top of mt. everest and a guy comes along and says he'll save you, and proceeds to throw religious pamphlets at you while simultaniously giving a sermon." - Dustin G
Pete Nattress Cheesy Bits img src/uploads/sccheesegif
Registered 23/09/2002
Points 4811
5th April, 2004 at 18:25:19 -
if anything, you have more power with a lower level language, even if it's harder to use it. essentially HLLs are just telling the LLLs what to do.
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Edited by the Author.
, does it have similar functions to SDL or is it completely different?
. Can't be better though, or it'd be more popular
