Use this forum thread to discuss ideas and plans. And if you enter, good luck! Don't forget, a copy of either MMF 1.5 Standard, Install Creator Pro or Patch Maker is up for grabs, kindly donated by Clickteam!
agreed. it doesnt even make a whole lot of sense. There have been like a million mario games. Which one is it supposed to be like? Would someone lose points on marioishness if it was like mario 64 instead of mario world? Or do the graphics have to be really close to a mario game without being stolen? It's too restrictive and too vague both at the same time.
I will most likely join the combo., sence there is a free copy of Install Creator Pro at stake, & plus its a challenge, & a test of how well I can make a platform engine without the use of the Platform object (MMF Bonus Pack Numbero Uno).
i will only enter this if we are allowed to use extenions for shits sake, to make a mario platform movement WITHOUT fastloops OR the platform movement object is too much effort for a little compo. Can we use the custom platform movement object? if not why not??!?!?!?!??!!??!
No Fast Loops for a platformer is probably the most stupid idea you can try to enforce in a competition. After all, you could still just copy and paste the same event over and over again - and although you'd end up with nearly unreadable code, you'd still have achieved the same. At least give some reason why no fast loops should be used.
There's nothing you can do with fastloop that you can't without it, but making us go the extra effort is completely fucking retarded. The whole point of extensions is to overcome limitations in CT products. I can see that some limitations might level the playing field, but I can't see any rational reason to have a rule against fastloop, everyone has access to it, and EVERYONE USES IT ALL THE FUCKING TIME.
I'm not a fan of this 'marioishness' thing either. I know you're probably just looking for quality, but mario isn't santa. Santa would have different abilities and attributes. Should be more specific, are you looking for a mario-like atmosphere, or gameplay? We're going to end up with a bunch of entries in which santa hits a block from underneath, collects a magic sack and throws bouncing presents at enemies. If it plays exactly like a mario game, it might as well be a fangame no matter what the sprites look like.
I'll probably enter. I'm just going to be grumpy about it.
i know what it says on the compo page mate, im asking if they can change the bullshit rules so that people can just make a nice little platformer without having to battle mmf's weaknesses.
you will have 10 times the entrants if you take off the extensions restrictions.
I didnt use the fastloop for my current game and that why the character falls into the ground slightly. so i can probably use the events from that in this because is very marioesque anyway.
Can someone tell me exactly what marioishness is? Do we have to make a Super mario Bros. game with snow and elves, or are we just trying to make a light, arcadey platformer?
You shouldn't go here, there are crazy swedes who mumble about cucumbers:
http://www.crobasoft.com
The marioishness rule definitely needs to be clarified. If I don't have blocks to hit from beneath or the equivalent of shells to kick or coins to collect, but my game is still fun to play, then am I disqualified?
i think, for the mario theme, it means power-ups (enlargement, fire power etc) and bouncing on enemies, having coins (or other collectables) time limit and other things you'd find in a mario game
Jeeze, I think I'm going to have to pass this up. I could never make a Mario-type engine, mainly because I don't have any time anymore. School is consuming me.
I see what I can make, but I doubt I'll send it in time.
Fine Garbage since 2003.
CURRENT PROJECT:
-Paying off a massive amount of debt in college loans.
-Working in television.
Holy heck guys, you truly are the most spoilt bunch. You all rely too much on extentions, and insulting me isn't going to make me change my mind. As I said on the front page, you have to EARN the prize, not use other peoples extentions and bits and bobs to do the hard work for you. Any idiot can use the Platform Movement Object and make a platformer.
But most of the comments are negatively reflecting the Fastloop. So I'll allow Fastloop to be used, ok?
In case you couldn't be bothered to read all that: YOU CAN NOW USE FASTLOOP.
Yeah Thank you! now I can finally think about entering if I got time . One thing though, what is the point of restricting the file saving extensions and such? Is it really a bad thing to have a save feature in a platformer? mario does it .
Meh in my games i used the Platform movement they gave you Sure i'll give this a shot. but i gotta do it double time cause I'll be in england for the second half of my Month long holiday.
I think mine has some promise. I'm using all original graphics, but I'm also using my own tried-and-true platform engine, customized to work with a character who changes heights.
Actually, come to think of it, I really like what I have so far. If I can just make sure it's not rushed and that I get all of my features in before I start designing levels, it might be pretty decent - not just as a Mario-clone, but as a game on its own.
If wishes were fishes then we'd all smell like ladies' underwear.
Deleted User
17th November, 2004 at 05:15:21 -
Still didn't understand whether we could do mario but santa type but includes coins,stupid turtles etc. do we?
I don't know what the big deal is, I thought the rules where very simple. I'm not going to use fastloop either. The original rules where good enough for me.
Btw, The reason why I say no saves is because the judges computers will be clogged with .ini and array files in c:windows:system, which is the default place for these things to go. So many klikkers don't save their save files in the same folder as the game, and when the games are eventually deleted I don't want anything left behind.
let's sum that, 320x240 (and not 320x200, nor any other resolution), midi only(i wonder how the judge could give a mark to something that totaly depends of the sound card), no array, even no ownmade object(which could prove you can make things),ten level minimum (which mean you can't for exemple have only 3 big levels), mario (and not ... rayman , or guimo, or any platformer 10 better than mario), santa claus as the hero (which mean you can't rename him, even not taking a non english name of it, it need to be "Santa Claus" and not "santa claus",no save feature (so nearly noone will finish the game), zip only and a limitation of 3 megabyte(don't you know zip files sux and cca file are 5 time larger than the final exe ?), reliable host (which mean you have to pay for it),game must be finished with no ripped graphics and a deadline of less than 1.5 month(woah !)
so the final game will be :
- a platformer starying something that look like Santa Claus (i have trouble seeing it because of the 320x240 resolution)
- 11 short level long (VERY short, so that judge could go to the final boss, also it allow the cca size to be low, and the deadline to be respected)
- crap midi music with a option to remove it (and that thing will help a lot to win this compo)
- a boring platformer (like mario was)
- quick made graphics (always less than 3 frame for each animation)
- no downloaded by lot of people
- will be made by (insert a stupid guy's name here), which must have been unemployed because of the time it must have took him to create the game with such a deadline....
platform movement object is the best way to make cpm's these days, i dont know why we cant use it.
thers only one person on tdc who can make a good mario game and thats myself, so if you want a good mario-like game to be submitted then you should allow for any extensions to be used.
Oh ok, I see why there is no save feature now I suppose (I still know how to make save files stay in the game directory but oh well ). I wish I could enter but I won't have time it looks like (I am in the middle of moving )
Circy, what on earth do you mean by "You all rely too much on extentions"? Shall I just give up writing extensions because people rely on them too much? Ok, I'll throw Directsound 2 away, you can use Call DLL to call the whole API yourself. Oh wait, you need about fifteen calls to load a sound file and four more to play it. And you can't do it either, because you need pointers and COM interfaces.
If we don't rely on extensions, what do we rely on? Plain ol' MMF? Today, about 50% of MMF's power is thanks to extensions. In fact, much of MMF's core functionality is being shifted to extensions because they're so powerful; e.g. the Sub application object. The official Window Control object. Rich edit. The list goes on.
And let's not forget it was the Fastloop extension that brought such a change to the Click world. Frankly I think the attitide that extensions should be avoided is total rubbish, everyone should use them and exploit them since they can make life so much easier, and enable so many new things which are simply impossible without them.
Also, there is no such thing as the Make My Game For Me extension (except for the April Fools prank). Inserting an object does not complete your game. You do still need work and effort to think up and make a cool game. Something like the Platform Object will only make the games BETTER, since people's time and effort can go on to graphics, or gameplay, or new ideas, instead of trying to fix some obscure bug where the player can hang off a ledge by their nose or something.
This is not a bash at your competition Circy, but an argument against the stupid attitudes that extensions "make life too easy" or whatever. Not using something because it's useful just isn't a logical argument.
i havent read through all the messages here but i think maybe Circy put the no-save rule in to make the games smaller? do i get a medal or just a yorkshire pudding?
Extensions are good, but this is a COMPETITION, so I see no problem with the current restrictions. I don't speak for Circy, but I think that everybody here can make a Mario game without any extensions. The fast loops, I agree, are needed due to the limited nature of MMF... but you can do just about everything else through nothing but the event editor.
I'm no MMF expert, but I've got a nearly dead-on Mario engine, including a rideable Yoshi-esque pet (in this case, Rudolph). So far, I've only used active objects, background objects, and MMF's in-built fastloops. Mario-- er, Santa -- can even change sizes and duck down chimneys (damn you for thinking of that too, Blood Falcon!). I just need to get the fireballs/Christmas-themed projectile figured out, then I'll be ready to add enemies.
If wishes were fishes then we'd all smell like ladies' underwear.
Tigs, I'm not talking about all extentions. Extentions which help users, like fastloop, I'm fine with. Its the other extentions, such as that "make my particle effects for me" extention, or the Platform Movement Object. I'm not saying that those are bad or shouldn't be used either, but I feel that people rely on them too much and should do the meat of the work themselves in the event editor. Other people may disagree or agree, but this is only my opinion.
When I had The Games Factory, I never relied upon extentions because I never used the internet around then. Nowadays, certain extentions are handy, yes, but I don't rely on them. Throw away Directsound 2, I'm not too fussed and don't rely upon it. It's not an essential extention, and neither are half of the others. It's probably nice to have and will no doubt make someones life a lot easier, but I prefer my games to be as 100% mine as they can be. No offense or anything.
Three questions:
1. There is nothing mentioned in the rules about using original music, so I assume the more tone-deaf amonst us don't have to make our own MIDIs?
2. Does the 'no Save Feature features' rule include level passwords?
3. Is there any limits on content such as violence and adult themes?
Oh, and by the way, it still says 'No fastloop' in the list of rules.
1. You don't have to make your own MIDIs. You can use any midis you wish. The criteria for this competition doesn't include music But you can ONLY use MIDIs
2. Level passwords are acceptable
3. Wow... didn't think of that. Preferably no swearing or sexual themes, but I'm not enforcing those rules. But don't think that's just giving you all the excuse for a massive porn-fest
4. Yup, aware of that. Unfortunately I cannot edit or delete any files I upload to TDC... only the higher admins can do that. I'll have a word with Clubsoft about that and see if he can change it.
By the way, in case anyone was wondering, the reason why some of these limitations are strict is because not everyone has MMF 1.5 and henceforth the full use of the extentions. People with TGF won't have the power, and I'm trying to be as fair as I can be.
"people ... should do the meat of the work themselves in the event editor."
Why?
"Throw away Directsound 2, I'm not too fussed... [it] will no doubt make someones life a lot easier"
So I should throw DS2 away just because YOU don't care about it? Because MMF's archaic 8 sample mixing without pan or volume control will suffice for EVERYONE?
Tigs: Because thats just my personal opinion. Just in the sense that you saying that all extentions are good and make life easier is your opinion.
You're the one who said you should throw it away. I'm just saying that I'm indifferent to it. Again, other people might be with me, others might look forward to it.
Stop taking things so personally dude. I'm happy to continue this debate via email or DC Mail, but the topic is twisting away.
I cant remember what drove me to type that much about it, but basically considering that any MMF game uses the MMF engine, none of which is original to the author, I'd have thought you wouldn't mind throwing in something like the Platform movement object either.
I can see why you would take away extensions becuase they might make it a bit too easy to make a platform game, HOWEVER think of it in terms of making it harder doesn't mean that people are going to TRY harder. if something is too hard to do, they might just not do it and we might end up with a ton of games using the default platform movement .
I think extensions are here to help us, the extension developers all work extremely hard just so we can have more power and to have someone say that they are "spoiling" us makes it seem like they are doing something negative!
The thing is, why limit the competion? sure, if you allow extensions you may get a few entries that use the platform movement object, and the particle spray object but shouldn't the entries be judged on their technological innovation as well? Why reinvent the wheel when we could be spending the deadline working on the gameplay and adding cool bosses and new types of AI? Even with extensions making a game still takes work!
You say that TGFers will not have the same advantages and it will not be fair to them, Well to most TGFers I have seen , they think TGF is BETTER then MMF! Surely even with extensions due to the horrible graphics editor, interface, and confusingness of MMF that TGFers will STILL have the upperhand?
In todays world of 3d games with trillions of polygons and realistic physics , I have yet to see one of the modern games that recaptures the spirit of invention, creativity, and fun of the old dos games! Surely if a game creator is good enough even AGAINST the powers of MMF they could STILL make a game that beats them all hands down? it's not the tool but the creator.
On the same point you don't tell an artist what colors to use , if they want to use extensions in order to make their game BETTER then why stop them? Why limit features when they could add to the game tremendously?
This is just my point of view, I do not honestly expect you to modifiy the rules of the compotetion farther, however you did say this was a place for discussion so I am "discussing".
i think its stupid when people say anything to the effect of "you could of spent this time making your game" lets all make games at 10:00 am guys.
anyway, you have some fair points circy but you of all people should know having a working platform movement is only a very tiny part of the game.
not to worry, ill make my own christmas themed mario game without following your rules because im so rebelious, and since i already won mmf 1.5 off this site last year i think, i probly cant win it again anyway.
n/a
Peblo Custom ratings must be 50 characters or less
Registered 05/07/2002
Points 185
17th November, 2004 at 22:23:52 -
Dave you can stop bragging.
"thers only one person on tdc who can make a good mario game and thats myself, so if you want a good mario-like game to be submitted then you should allow for any extensions to be used."
Dave you can stop bragging. There are plenty of people that can make good mario engines, not just you. But on to more important things.
Ok, I have sooo many fangame engines that I could use its not even funny, so I just need clarification. I could model the game after the following mario games:
Mario Bros 1 and 3
Super Mario RPG (Isometric veiw, not rpg)
Super Mario RPG (RPG portion)
Mario Bros 2
Mario Kart
Mario's Time Machine
Just say which ones I can use. If all, this will become a very weird game.
Also, can we include mini-games?
"Isn't it always amazing how we characterize a person's intelligence by how closely their thinking matches ours?"
~Belgarath
i didnt mean no one can make games at 10 am(i never do), what i was saying is that not 100% of the time i spend on the computer is spent making games. when people say "you could of spent this time making the game instead of posting" its just stupid, i dont make games while im online. its like they are saying every second your're on the computer you should be working on your game otherwise its time wasted.
Your general Mario-style levels would be a snowy level, a firey level, a foresty level and a cavernous level. Just make it so in all of these worlds they're celebrating Christmas, a bit of tinsel and baubles and shit strewn around the levels, whatever the theme.
Cool. I haven't clicked in ages. This compo got me going again for a little platform game. Too bad it's judged on it's marioishness though. That leaves out alot of freedom to design your own game. I probably wont score very high there, caus I hate remaking other peoples games. The fun part of game creation is to convert your mind and creative fantasy to a game. Not fun to use someone else's fantasy.
The only restriction that bothered me was the fastloop one. But since it has been taken away, yay! Now I can't complain on anything in this compo and I'm gladly going to enter. I've come up with a great plot to work on.
The game must NOT have any save features - I am going to add a password feature into mine to get around this.
-All graphics MUST not be ripped, and none must NOT be modelled on any Nintendo character - Graphics won't be a problem, the only difficulty is animation for me.
None of the restrictions bother me, it is a competition of initiative rather than a competition to see who can use the extensions best.
Does that mean we can't modify a ripped sprite, or we can't completely redraw a charactor that already excists? So say I'm too unimaginative to create an original enemy could I draw a turtle from scratch and use that? or would I have to think of an original enemy?
Ahhh shit I thought it just ment we can't rip sprites and edit them.... I'm out then . My game has lots of stuff from mario (entirely drawn by me) in it. I have no idea how you are ment to get marioishness points though. Now it does kinda seem a stupid idea, being judged on how similar to mario it is without actually having anything from mario in it.
all the basics are done in the engine. Im going to add tons more. It worries me a little how the screens so far all look very similar. This is going to be a tough one to judge Circy.
Heres a screenshot of my game which I quit because apparently its too "like-mario" in a competition to make a same similar to mario, and actually get judged on how much it is like mario also.
So excuse me if I seem pissed of, I just wasted hours of my life making that for nothing. I hope you all choke and die.
I was going to enter but I can't compete with thoose graphics, and speaking that I already have the prizes, I think I will just make a game for fun on my own terms..
Peblo, if it says in the rules "NO MINI GAMES" then you can't
otherwise you can.
Im pretty sure i doesn't say no mini games.
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Peblo Custom ratings must be 50 characters or less
Registered 05/07/2002
Points 185
21st November, 2004 at 18:37:48 -
Not that question... Out of the following Mario games, what ones can I model it after?
Mario bros 1
Mario bros 2
Mario bros 3
Super Mario World
Super Mario Rpg (3d aspect, so basically everything of Super Mario Bros 3 except having a 3rd dimension .
"Isn't it always amazing how we characterize a person's intelligence by how closely their thinking matches ours?"
~Belgarath
i cant see how mario rpg is anything like mario 3, it has a couple of shitty platforming sections but thats all. id like to see someone make a mario 2 game, so under rated it was...
n/a
Peblo Custom ratings must be 50 characters or less
Registered 05/07/2002
Points 185
21st November, 2004 at 22:32:10 -
No, I'm talking about having like a Super Mario Bros 3 Game, but with an added dimension. Raccoon Santa flying to blocks that actually have depth... mabye what I'm talking about is kinda like Mario and Luigi:SS, without the luigi.
"Isn't it always amazing how we characterize a person's intelligence by how closely their thinking matches ours?"
~Belgarath
Oh healthy competition, no greedy shit, u even showing screenshots and stuff, thats good, I'm not entering though, too busy, but good luck Mitch, you're number one!!
Please, PLEASE! Get rid of the Resolution limit!
I spent hours on drawings and coding but had already started it at a higher res.
(520*340)
Ps. I like the idea of rewarding skill and thinking rather than the ability to use automated stuff.(Not that the extensions don't kick arse)-But I'm still using TGF.
I think 320x240 is a good resolution to have for this competition.
If it were more than 320x240 the filesize would be too big and if it were smaller it would be too tiny to make out anything on the screen without fullscren mode. And since everyone don't have the ability/knowledge to do fullscreen it's not an option to have it smaller than 320x240.
But this is just suggestions and the judges reasons may be something entirely different.
The resoloution would be a choice of the writer.
There's a 3mb file size limit anyway.
The graphics choice would be should be up to you.
If people wan't to waist your allowed game space on graphics
that should be your choice.
Btw, you can use the Lives and Score objects too. Forgot about them
Dr Evil Face, its just a competition. I'm not going to modify the rules to suit your needs I just prefer a 320x240 window, or a 320x240 resolution. Like it or don't like it. Enter or don't enter
320x240 is a low res that fits the natural aspect ratio of the monitor, i can not see why tgf offers 320x200 (or whatever it does offer as a standard) as it will run slow fullscreen (rectangular pixels).
I suppose I should work on my entry. I'l start december first, that's a good goal. That way it'll be finished december second and I can get stuck into metroid when it comes out.
At this point I am not planning to enter in the competition. I would really like to but at the moment I'm working on way to many projects! I know that's the usual excuse, but since this time around the usual excuse seems to be "it's too limiting", I thought I would tell you.
Heheh... just bringing this post to the top so that people know its there
n/a
Peblo Custom ratings must be 50 characters or less
Registered 05/07/2002
Points 185
25th November, 2004 at 12:41:04 -
Or you could do something useful and answer my question... possibly...
Ahhh... nevermind. If I can only use the first mario game as a engine, then everyone's game is going to be the same. Count me out. However, I'll upload my 3d/SMB3 mario game later.
Edited by the Author.
"Isn't it always amazing how we characterize a person's intelligence by how closely their thinking matches ours?"
~Belgarath
Bloody hell. Nobody's been explicit about it, but I don't think they're wanting a mario fangame with santa sprites. Just general marioishness. Inertia, powerups, cute enemies, that sort of thing. You shouldn't have to base it on any specific game.
You've got the whole mario series to draw from, including Mario 2 which is Doki Doki Panic -- that means you can have weird ass stuff all over the place.
Peblo Custom ratings must be 50 characters or less
Registered 05/07/2002
Points 185
25th November, 2004 at 20:07:51 -
I'll ask it once again. What of the following can I intergrate:
1) A 3rd dimension (Mario and Luigi: SS)
2) Picking stuff up, like SMB2
3) Ability to rade an animal (SMW)
4) Powerups like flip gravity
5) Moveset like Mario 64
6) Standard Mario stuff (P balloon...)
7) Dual Mario/Luigi Gameplay (Mario and Luigi: SS)
Just trying to get some creativity going...
"Isn't it always amazing how we characterize a person's intelligence by how closely their thinking matches ours?"
~Belgarath
DaVince This fool just HAD to have a custom rating
Registered 04/09/2004
Points 7998
26th November, 2004 at 16:07:48 -
I quit because I have LOTS of projects running and I can't compete with THOSE qualities. Oh well, I'll try to buy MMF then... (but you can't find it in the Netherlands )
Nice screen And Vincent. I live in the Netherlands. Just order it at clickteam.com, and you get it shipped, boxed and all. Be patient, and the flight cost will take a week, but isn't that expensive...
Ive given up on mine but i will release it as a demo, it will the the first game ive abandoned after getting as far as it is.
.
DaVince This fool just HAD to have a custom rating
Registered 04/09/2004
Points 7998
7th December, 2004 at 10:41:13 -
Hey AndyUK, does that mean you're still working on that RPG?
MitchM: "Nice screen And Vincent. I live in the Netherlands. Just order it at clickteam.com, and you get it shipped, boxed and all. Be patient, and the flight cost will take a week, but isn't that expensive.."
I don't know if you need a credit card. You probably will, and I don't have one.
Beh, I figured everyone else is doing tiny sprites because of the restrictions, so I might as well do something different. I hate resizing so it works pretty well.
i only worked on my entry for one day, because i started making it before i read the rules. what a let down, i would of won if it weren't for anti-extension use.
i bet my test engine is more like mario than any of the finished games.
uploaded it for the sake of it... geocities...does it work? i dont know, my new isp doesnt give me webspace. anyway shift jumps hold crtl to run and enter to pause. just like my nes emulator. btw its only engine so the gfx are ripped, but ripped nicely i think.
I'm confident I'll get it done. I just have to do nine levels now that the engine is perfect(-ed-ish) I'm planning on some cutscenes too... but if worst comes to worst some of my "levels" might be a big flat platform and nothing else. Then I can release a 1.1 version later, since it's supposed to be completed.
Here's a screeny of the first level of my game, Christmas Conquest.
Coding the enemy platform movement took forever. But now my enemies can detect walls and cliffs on their own. The rest of the game should progress quicker now.
Definition
irony (WRONG RESULT)
noun [U]
a situation in which something which was intended to have a particular result has the opposite or a very different result:
The irony (of it) is that the new tax system will burden those it was intended to help.
ironic
adjective (ALSO ironical)
[+ that] It is ironic that although many items are now cheaper to make, fewer people can afford to buy them.
He didn't say sitesled was a reliable host, thus your comment falls down like a burning tower with structural damage. And a monkey on it.
Sneerlee's game looks bloody good, i aint gonna bother my graphics are not that good . Might be bothered due to festive sprits (note spirits) but then it will be bad .
Hmm maybe I should think about joining this one. I mean, my game probably won't be half as good as all your games and stuff. I mean it's really simple...
It's been over a fortnight(the term I just recently learned is two weeks) since the deadline of the competition passed; it was said that the results would be in within a fortnight. It bewildered me why it would take that long to review the eight entries, but I accepted it. It took me less time to actually make my game. Well, here we are.
Not only has there been no update whatsoever on the status of the judging, but the final piece of news about the comp mysteriously disappeared from the front page.
Being someone who obsessively visits everyday, all I'm asking for is a little update on how the judging is going.
to be fair, Circ is now waiting on both me and Pete, I deleted the judgings I did, teach me to name a text file Text.txt and rmember what it is until I've already overwritten it.
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Edited by the Author.
. One thing though, what is the point of restricting the file saving extensions and such? Is it really a bad thing to have a save feature in a platformer? mario does it 
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. Might be bothered due to festive sprits (note spirits) but then it will be bad 
