No, the community isn't dead yet. But it will be someday. It's not dying a painful, cancerous death. It's dying of natural causes, aging to death slowly enough that nobody seems to notice. Want evidence? What happened to the greatest klikers? The biggest groups? Blackeye Software, Drunken Missile, FAInd, Mark Pay, Tigerworks? Most of them have left the community, or just hanging around as old veterans, chatting, criticizing, etc... but hardly making games.
The community could easily be resurrected if only there was a flow of newbies into the community to cover for the skilled retirees. Of course there's noobs... but there's just not enough of them, at least not enough who hang around long enough to become respectable professionals. To get enough people to join the community... we have to create something that'll actually charm them. ED, Commando, Bernard & Hank would be great... if it was 1995 or if they were on mobile phones. Games that stand outside the SNES fanatic market are games with their own unique appeal.. like TSE and Siege (and a lot of others I'm too lazy to think about ).
Games are just another form of entertainment, like say.. music. Like music, it's really not that fun to have this great song but nobody to hear it. Like music, everyone masters their instruments individually... be it voice, guitar, drums, violins, keyboards... or 2D graphics, 3D graphics, klik coding, C++, sound editing, composing, etc.
And like music, the best is created when musicians team up. Creating a game all by yourself is like playing all the instruments seperately, then recording it together to make one album. It's almost impossible to have all that time unless you have no life, and by the time you're finished, you only have enough time to make something average.
Now don't get me wrong, there are good games that are finished solo. But the effort itself leaves the created drained, rather than motivated to make another game. My suggestion is not to make one huge symphony... that would be impossible to manage and coordinate. Instead, I suggest that the best people make what they enjoy doing. A skilled graphics artist can create his own library of fully animated characters, which a skilled coder can use in his great engine. Use someone else's recorded bass and drum beats... you can have your own solo on top of it. Don't think of it as ripped graphics or engines... just donated ones. The same character could be in many games, just like an actress is in many movies. The same engine could be used for many games, just the way cars use the same engines. Of course, credit has to be given.
The biggest flaw in this idea is that everyone's style is different. And I think the solution would simply be to have enough people churn out enough stuff to match the style. Things that EVERYONE uses, like platform engines, backdrops and RPG battle engines can be mass produced. Heck, we could have competitions for the best one. This Ultimate Engine can then be used by noobs as long as they give credit.
Another thing... let's end this inter-kliker rivalry. It's sad when people bash other people over tutorials, games, etc, when their games aren't any good either. It's much sadder when people create games "like ED, but better!" Instead, focus on rivalling with other game making software, like Flash, AGS, GM, RPGMaker, Blitz. Instead of focusing on who has the better ED clone... the engines to such masterpieces should be given freely and we can compete on who makes the game that's more fun.
It's a big idea, not to everyone's taste. But perhaps that's because we're not used to it. Take the ancient Mongols for example. They were all great warriors, capable of shooting each other's eyes out before beating them to pulp. But once they focus their talents against the rest of the world, they were nearly unstoppable. Imagine what we could do if we focused our skills...
Disclaimer: Any sarcasm in my posts will not be mentioned as that would ruin the purpose. It is assumed that the reader is intelligent enough to tell the difference between what is sarcasm and what is not.
I agree, if everyone was into helping each other make good games the community would be a better place. More people would be teaming up and using their gifts to the fullest. There's no telling what kind of games we would have if everyone put their talents to use. We got people who can code making their own graphics when there's someone on the site better than them. It makes no sense, why not work together as a whole to improve? Especialy when the fact is we all want the same thing. Making that perfect game you dreamed of. Now I dont mean some huge group has to form, but even two people working together is better than one. The quality of the games on the site would improve aswell.
Friendly intra-community rivalry is good as well - when my brother and I start on similar games at the same time we get far more done to each of them. And I think the DC game is a great example of what the community can do together, bugs notwithstanding at the moment.
Assault Andy Administrator
I make other people create vaporware
Registered 29/07/2002
Points 5686
19th April, 2006 at 10:46:43 -
IT'S NOT DEAD. Looking at the amount of people post on the boards (Across all kliking sites) and the amount of klikers who I talk to on MSN, I can see that that the community is not 'dying' and is not going to 'die' any time soon. I don't want to go into another thread on if the community is dying, there are enough of them already. Just look at the past GOTW's and you can see most of them ooze with quality. I agree that some groups have left, that's a fact. BUT I disagree that there are not enough 'noobs' to fill the void. There are plenty, I can assure you of that. Basically, I just help anyone that asks for it (Occasionally getting frustrated, but I always manage to get them the answer in the end).
As for releasing engines, I was considering doing that, but then again someone reminded me that you would have a whole bunch of 'noobs' who would not understand how to use the engine. I still think it's a good idea however.
Buh, stop saying it's dying. This community is more alive than it ever was. There is a lot of young talent coming in all the time, MMF2 is coming up and a lot of decent games are coming out. And for me it's more fun than it ever was as well. I am doing what I want to do (making so called SNES fanboy games) with a small and stable team.
You are totally right about rivalling with the other gamemaking tools, click was very underrepresented on the Caiman Easter competion for example.
To be honest, group projects are more tiresome than the individual ones. If it's ever going to work there are strict deadlines and there is always the possibility of letting people down. It's mentally and physically stressing (I know from coding an engine overnight with no sleep to meet deadlines), and the sense of self satisfaction is all I need, but that is not to everyones taste. Usually the person leading the project is highlighted in all their glory and the backstage people left behind, which is not what most people want. A lot of people seek to make a name for them self in the community and individual projects are really the only things that achieve this. If the community were dying it would be due to the pressure from the elites on the n00bs. If we needed more n00bs (please no!) then why is the road pointed to the slaughter house? I have found with this community there seems to be a general ignorance to unfamiliar faces which again gives the impression the community is dying. What I think you may be referring to is the fact that anybody with the ability to use a computer can make a game using click products so the once WOW factor you could get form making a game is not so wow because it's nothing new in the sense you are looking at it. Focus your attention on the game itself rather than the "omgz I did this and you can't" crap that used to make n00bs feel like god for doing something different. These are just my opinions and I won't pass any of them off as real facts because they can't all be fully justified, I am sure everyone has made up in their mind if the community is dying, and anyone is capable of taking steps to ensure it doesn't die given that they don't want it to, though I am sure for most people who think this place is dying, killing it is the only way of making it feel alive again.
Hmm that must suck. It's not always the project leader though. On all the games I have worked on, Hayo has been the project leader and he is all too willing to let people know I did stuff but people don't really care about that.
Do you feel you are being... watched?
Peblo Custom ratings must be 50 characters or less
Registered 05/07/2002
Points 185
19th April, 2006 at 14:50:59 -
Whoa, fell asleep talking to you about this.
"Isn't it always amazing how we characterize a person's intelligence by how closely their thinking matches ours?"
~Belgarath
Dustin Gunn Gnarly Tubular Way Cool Awesome Groovy Mondo
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Basically, I just help anyone that asks for it (Occasionally getting frustrated, but I always manage to get them the answer in the end).
