Muz was posting the other day about click dying, and that conversation ( http://www2.create-games.com/forum_post.asp?id=151895 ) got me thinking. Why couldn't there be a massive click supergroup, with loads of people in? Often click groups start, get about 4 members and sort of, die. It happened with the click group I was in before, and it happens all the time. That Muz post, along with this ( http://www2.create-games.com/forum_post.asp?id=151898 ) has brought me to offer you a proposal:
The Proposal:
- We start a click group, a supergroup, which is amalgamated from existing click groups, individuals, whoever wants to join. Obviously not everyone could join, for example LIJI.
- Create a website, with a proper domain (no freewebs) made with php or asp so we can have a database with members, games, previews etc. We could get an unlimited bandwidth/space host so that there'd be no running out of space or any annoying messages.
- Have a Vitalize arcade on the site, with highscore boards.
- Call it something cool.
The Advantages:
- People have a place to host all their games.
- People's games will be well advertised because the site would be well visited and linked.
- Group projects could be easily created and overseen. There'd be no trouble in getting lots of people working on a game, and communication would be easy (via forums, MSN addresses).
- Certain people could have different roles, like if someone was really good at GFX but rubbish at coding they could focus mainly on making GFX. Obviously these roles don't have to be stuck to.
- Beginners at klik could learn off the more experienced of the group.
Now paying for the hosting and domain could be done with a mixture of donations and members paying a small fee. But if we get a unlimited host for 2 years it costs about £80/$120, which isn't that much if you consider how many people this project could gather up.
Now obviously if no-one wants to do this then it would be implausible starting anything.
So my question to you is:
Do you agree with any of this, and would you (or your group) be willing to participate? Is there anything you would change?.
Actually that's two questions; never mind. Please add anything you can to this topic, except penises. Also admins, please don't move this to the Solitaire Club, nobody reads that!
Peblo Custom ratings must be 50 characters or less
Registered 05/07/2002
Points 185
20th April, 2006 at 22:54:24 -
I think this is a pretty good idea, but I'd like to suggest there be multiple levels of the group. For instance, tier 1 for the elitists, tier 2 for the competent, tier 3 for the others... or something like that. So people can at least get reconition for their work, and not be brought down by something not as good.
Edited by the Author.
"Isn't it always amazing how we characterize a person's intelligence by how closely their thinking matches ours?"
~Belgarath
If there's a group someone needs to be over it all. Everyone in the group vote on a leader other than themselves. People in the group can propose games they wanna make and members can decide if they want to help. Also maybe have ranks where people work under each other, again based on the group voting who they think would be best in the division. If you plan on the idea working there needs to be something stable and organized so the group doesnt fall apart. I wouldn't mind joining if the idea works.
I'm in favour of this idea! It sounds ace, cool, fab!
Alas, it will require the utmost dedication and commitment from all those who express an interest to create and maintain such a team.
By a route obscure and lonely,
Haunted by ill angels only,
Where an Eidolon, named night,
On a black throne reigns upright,
I have reached these lands but newly
From an ultimate dim Thule
From a wild clime that lieth, sublime,
Out of space
Out of time.
Well I mean obvious things. If you do graphics, be ranked under the graphics department in the group. Same as for coding and so on, and maybe have semi groups out of the main group if one part makes their own game series.
Peblo Custom ratings must be 50 characters or less
Registered 05/07/2002
Points 185
20th April, 2006 at 23:12:05 -
Maybe no ranks... how would we decide on who gets in and who doesn't? Strict test?
Edited by the Author.
"Isn't it always amazing how we characterize a person's intelligence by how closely their thinking matches ours?"
~Belgarath
I've experienced this in TDC online game team - the project has stayed still simply because of people being lazy or not having enough time. But then again there will be more people in this group, so more chance of not having lazy members I guess.
This is a signature. Have this one on me.
Peblo Custom ratings must be 50 characters or less
Registered 05/07/2002
Points 185
20th April, 2006 at 23:21:18 -
There'll still be individual projects, and DC mails... there should be leaders to solve disagreements.
"Isn't it always amazing how we characterize a person's intelligence by how closely their thinking matches ours?"
~Belgarath
Yes, it's true these problems occur, but these could be solved by discussion/compromise. The time difference thing could be sorted by working with people mainly of your timezone, and if someone's being lazy without good reason then somebody else could do that part of the game. Obviously if somebody never ever completes a game then we would think twice about letting them join yes?
Good point though Flava, what's your opinion about it?
Yeah KlikMaster, I see your point, but there would be some vital differences. I wouldn't see this new place as somewhere to talk about click in general, or other groups' games. People would actually have there games hosted here. There'd also be no reviews, only previews and actual games. There'd be more "behind the scenes" stuff, that is forums only open to members.
The example I've shown people is http://www.teagames.com/ , but with click and without the corporate side of things. I don't really see much interactivity, mainly just games, maybe not even a comment section on the bottom of the games.
I think Muz had this idea before, and it might work, but nowhere near as good as you'd think. The more people you have on your team, the easier it is to slack off, and the harder it is to rein everybody in. Also, the more people you bring into a project, the less productive they are. Eventually, if you keep adding people, you'll spend more time managing workers than creating games. Finally, the elites of the group would probably bicker about which projects should be finished, since they're sharing resources.
If properly implemented, however, this could be great. If you can find a way to avoid the problems mentioned above, then I'd recommend that you set it up.
GameYours will join, and we will also help with the coding of the site.
My signature is never too big!!!
Peblo Custom ratings must be 50 characters or less
Registered 05/07/2002
Points 185
21st April, 2006 at 06:37:53 -
Rapid: I don't think Noodle was intending all 20 people to make a game, more like 4 or 5 groups working on different games, released under the same name. That's like, cutting management time way down.
"Isn't it always amazing how we characterize a person's intelligence by how closely their thinking matches ours?"
~Belgarath
It's worth a try though - what have we got to lose? (apart from time and sanity)
Only problem that I have is that I have a ton of exams in May/June - then January. And I'm fairly sure a lot of people here are in that situation too.
I agree, Keaton will not be allowed, if only for his presumption that he'd automatically be there. Like he said, we can't let EVERYBODY join.
Hayo - that could be arranged I feel. Certainly, for instance, both logos could be on the games you'd make. The advantage would be that your game would have two official hosts like, and also if you did group work outside of the Peasants bunch.
Then i'll have to patent my "not everybody can join" idea and sue you for big money...
And by "KeatonTech is joining the Klik Supergroup project" I meant I'd help get it up and running, that's why I added project at the end. I was kinda hoping to join too, but that wasn't really what I meant, I really should have been clearer... I'm sad that I can't join, but I still think it's a cool idea and it'll be fun to see how it evolves...
I think the rank thing is good... but the only catch is that ranks are entirely for bragging rights. That is, people with higher ranks can just show off how cool they are, pissing off other people to contribute, but they won't have the power to kick people out or anything. The worst thing that can happen is that the guys with the biggest ego (the biggest jerks) would get promoted to the highest ranks, as usually happens in MMORPGs but we can probably have a yearly vote to choose who'll get kicked out, ancient Greek style. Or better yet, we can have a vote every week to choose who'll get promoted.
The biggest problem in groups is that someone doesn't do anything. A supergroup would solve all that. When someone gets too lazy to work, wants to go on vacation for a few months, breaks up with spouse, whatever... they can just upload what they've done so someone else could finish it for them. Better yet, a few people could compete to finish it off.
I'm worried this idea might lead to a click community rather than a group
Even if it does... it'll lead to well, a nicer community. So no losses .
The more people you have on your team, the easier it is to slack off, and the harder it is to rein everybody in.
Achieve a critical mass and EVERYONE will want to be in. Slacking off solution mentioned above.
Also, the more people you bring into a project, the less productive they are.
True, but there will always be some people who try to be the best. Look at MMORPGs, there's thousands of people to beat, but people still level up as if they stand a chance at accomplishing anything. 20 people working on 1 hr/week of sprites > 1 person working 10 hrs/week on sprites.
Eventually, if you keep adding people, you'll spend more time managing workers than creating games.
Might be a problem... but if the TDC admins still make games... well, anyway it's the problem of the leaders.
Finally, the elites of the group would probably bicker about which projects should be finished, since they're sharing resources.
True... but they can just combine with the other elites to form an elite group? Or work on other projects.
Disclaimer: Any sarcasm in my posts will not be mentioned as that would ruin the purpose. It is assumed that the reader is intelligent enough to tell the difference between what is sarcasm and what is not.
The idea sounds good. It would to add an IRC channel for communicating about the games you're working on with multiple people.
The only thing i am curious about is:
why won't it fail or die like other groups, like you mentionned in your first post?
And what will be done about the rank problem, which obviously is going to arrive?
Well anyways, i like the idea.
jenswa.neocities.org
DaVince This fool just HAD to have a custom rating
Registered 04/09/2004
Points 7998
22nd April, 2006 at 16:37:13 -
I support the idea, but a few extra things in it would be good:
- One huge click game, to which everyone from the supergroup can contribute something. Say, something like the TDC game, but less prone to dying out because there's plenty of people to work on and improve things.
- Normal people can join a special recruitment group, where people are chosen to see if they qualify for the job. This makes sure people who think they're very good in stuff (but really are NOT) don't get in the team.
- Games are categorized in good/less good/medoicre/bad, judged by most of the team members other than the creator(s), so visitors get a good impression of the team and their games.
I'm pleased with the positive response we've had with this - I believe we can take it on to the next stage now, which is actually getting people to say "I'm in" or "I'm not". I believe we need some kind of makeshift forum for now, because we need somewhere to start off with proper discussion rather than idle TDC chat.
I've set up a temporary forum, hopefully an admin might frontpage-ise this:
There's nothing on it at the mo, but we can discuss numbers and actual nitty-gritty stuff here. Also, an IRC channel like Jenswa said would be a good idea; anyone know how to set one up?
Oh well, If you changed your mind about me i'd be happy to join, after all, you did say "Beginners at klik could learn off the more experienced of the group." i'm a beginner who could learn from more experienced people...
Keatontech: "Without me it ain't gonna last a day."
Well so far its been longer than a day and you've only shown why you shouldn't be in the group. Then you wonder why you get treated the way you do. Maybe if you thought about not asking anymore and proving yourself of some use other than being an annoying ignorant little boy all the time.
I think it's quite important to come up with some good concepts for games to make. So if anyone has any decent ideas now is the time to post them,
either here or on the proboards forum.
personally i would like to contribute to a group project, but it would have to be a really good idea that i know has a very good chance of at least getting off the ground.
Maybe something quite small.
Although to be honest i don't specialise in any particular part of game creation so it would be hard to fit in on any project.
this site sux, same for you noodle.
and i would like to disappoint:
YOUR IDEA WILL WORK ONLY IF THE SITE WILL HAVE A LOT OF MEMBERS AND VISITORS!
and sites on a free adish and lame unknown system can't have a lot of members and visitors.
Peblo Custom ratings must be 50 characters or less
Registered 05/07/2002
Points 185
24th April, 2006 at 14:17:27 -
Someone's pissed he can't join. Stop spamming the forums.
"Isn't it always amazing how we characterize a person's intelligence by how closely their thinking matches ours?"
~Belgarath
Deleted User
24th April, 2006 at 14:22:01 -
i'm not pissed, hunny
Deleted User
24th April, 2006 at 14:36:11 -
adish = a slang for a host with ads.
unknown system = his forum system is poor and unknown.
DaVince This fool just HAD to have a custom rating
Registered 04/09/2004
Points 7998
24th April, 2006 at 14:40:31 -
You can calm down and stop offending him, too, and he'll probably do the same. But seeing this, I know why he reacts so negative towards you.
Old member (~2004-2007).
Deleted User
24th April, 2006 at 15:17:53 -
well this idea still is going to fail.
and for your information, me and admins of famous click sites are making a comunity site for a long time. i'm currently programming the forums.
and everyone who the admins belive that he won't hurt the site and is / want to be a clicker will be able to join.
the site will be improved once a while to have bugs fixes and improve ments, which i belive noodle and his clone can't make for the simple reason:
they can't program PHP/CGI/similar.
Deleted User
24th April, 2006 at 16:45:18 -
-Do you think not liking people means that what you say about them is suddenly true?
how's that related?
anyway no.
Peblo Custom ratings must be 50 characters or less
Registered 05/07/2002
Points 185
24th April, 2006 at 16:52:37 -
Way to contradict yourself.
"Isn't it always amazing how we characterize a person's intelligence by how closely their thinking matches ours?"
~Belgarath
Shut up liji, your are too crap to join this. It's not just going to be a community site, we want to create good games that make a big flash in the sky in the freeware games scene. We don't need little shitstirrers like you for that at this moment.
save yourself a lot of anger and just stop posting in this topic.
.
Deleted User
25th April, 2006 at 13:05:07 -
is that so?
so prepare to get this site hacked
i can have your IP, DC password and username in few sec.
i can destory this site easily in few miuntes if i want so.
enjoy your last days on this sites, suckers.
oh and noodle, peblo and all other fags i have their IPs, you better get a firewall.
Liji, it's pretty stupid to actually say you are gonna hack people, as soon as you even try to hack one of us you are gonna be sued for it, as we have your information. We don't want you in the group and you are not the only one we don't want. Live with that.
Also, LIJI should really be banned for this behaviour. He has been bothering people enough now.
AAnyways...How about a slight change to the teams idea.
Maybe have a couple game teams, and a specialised "middleware" team (or two maybe) the middleware teams would create the engines for the games, and refine existing engine code. So all the teams making games could benefit by using "Platform Engine 2.1" there should also be coding standards & plenty of commenting, and modular code is a must. Otherwise there will be a lot of toe-stepping.
As well as a stock art team which would create some generic sprites before the game team artists take over.
why not just have people that want to join teams being in a team, maybe having a nominated team leader for that one project, but nothing that automaticaly elevated certain members over others for no reason.
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Edited by the Author.
If you plan on the idea working there needs to be something stable and organized so the group doesnt fall apart. I wouldn't mind joining if the idea works.
.
jenswa.neocities.org
