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Rio



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5th June, 2006 at 23:50:57 -

I've made a hand full of crapy games on click n play. I tryed my hand at click n creat and mmf. Now I'm ready to get into somthing allitle different. I'm concidering C++ or JAVA... can you tell me allitle about ither of these things? like for instance does C++ need a seprate graphics program or can you make games at all with them? and which program is easyer or better for game making?...
And or could you all suggest a program for making games that is more advanced or hase more freedom to do as i would?...

P.S. I'm Back on the daily click since a year ago or about's. if any of you remember.

 
Still searching for the perfect game.

Rio



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6th June, 2006 at 00:09:47 -

also I was wondering if there was a place on the web where i can possibly download a old free version of C++ or JAVA. And if you know of another program that is like these and you think they would be good to use let me know. And mabey if you want to share some personal expiriences with some of these programs, that may be helpfull.
thanks.

 
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vortex2



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6th June, 2006 at 00:14:40 -

Well both languages are object oriented, but Java is for net stuff and C++ is really what you want for games.

C++ is a low level, yet powerful language. The thing about it is, there are NO editors, no picture editors, no level editors, no anything. You will need to download a compiler and an API (Such as PTK, PopCap, Irrlicht, SDL, Allegro, or Ogre, depending on what you want to do) in order to do anything worthwhile in c++. You can make games with c++ but it will take you months of work and thousands of lines of code. Don't let that scare you though, I made a game in the PopCap framework and it was only about 5,000-6,000 lines of code.

The key is to start small when learning a new language and work your way up. The first thing you should do is find a compiler... The two major ones are DevCPP and Visual C++ 2005 Express. I recommend 2005 express as a good way to learn c++ is to make extensions for MMF!

I have heard good things about a product called Torque 2d but it is like $300 and about to go to $900 (or so I hear).

Also if C++ isn't up your ally then there are languages such as Dark Basic and Blitz Basic, but I am not going to tell you anymore about them other then the fact that they exist. Personally I hate basic as it teaches you bad programming habbits.

I hope this helped.

EDIT: You can download Visual C++ 2005 Express for free from microsoft (do a google search) as well as DevCPP, and you could also download NetBeans and the Java SDK for free as well.

Image Edited by the Author.

 
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vortex2



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6th June, 2006 at 00:28:21 -

Yeah, it's not for everyone...

 
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Rio



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6th June, 2006 at 01:00:13 -

Dont be dissin on my KNP skills son! I've made games from side scrolling ninja action to digipets. I nearly made a 3D object with KNP and it shut down. But this brainfuck thing sounds good. I mean if its used to make modern quality games mabey some day I'll be looking into it.
By the way... phizzy. your the guy who made that awsom side scroller with the little guy and those thick outlines arent you? I loved that game and wish to find it again. And thanks for the advice. I just may go back to MMF for a while befor compleatly foccusing on something new.

 
Still searching for the perfect game.

David Newton (DavidN)

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6th June, 2006 at 13:16:27 -

I don't think that anyone who uses Click products should have a problem with "real" coding, as long as you've got past the stage of the built-in movements and game types - many of the same principles apply. The significant additions that MMF makes (quite apart from providing a neat frontend to everything) are in the graphics handling/collision detection side of things, which I find absolutely torturous even in "friendly" languages like Java.

 
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6th June, 2006 at 13:41:37 -

i started learning programming about the same time as click. I still suck at programming and havnt even touched C or pascal in about 4 years...

 
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6th June, 2006 at 20:30:26 -

@Wong - Amen, building a reliable collision detection system from sctratch is a bitch.

 
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6th June, 2006 at 21:04:02 -

Rio, you're thinking of Circy (http://www2.create-games.com/profile.asp?id=751 ). Phizzy's current avatar uses sprites from his games.

 
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Rio



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6th June, 2006 at 22:28:05 -

Hells yeah thats the guy... Any ways I think I'm ready to get involved with C++ or possibly visual C++. you guys had some good points. right now I have a book or two from the ligbrary about learning C++ but the only set I really need is to get the actual program C++ on my computer. And mabey some day I'll do what I've always wished i could do... Put a game of mine on TDC for once.

 
Still searching for the perfect game.

Keatontech!

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7th June, 2006 at 22:28:11 -

I've got the same problem. I have been looking at dark basic, but it just doesn't seem powerfull enough to be a significan't improvement over MMF. I actually think i'll go with JAVA because of all this AJAX stuff on the new, and it's cross-platform-ness.

 
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Keatontech!

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7th June, 2006 at 23:13:23 -

Not only is it cross platfotm, it works on the web using AJAX, which, for those of you who don't know, is Asynchronous Java and XML. Examples of AJAX include Protopage (www.protopage.com , www.protopage.com/keatontech), Google Maps, Google Calendar, Google Page Creator, ect... Basicly, I think it is the way the web is going. You can also use Java to write things for Cell phones, and Tivo (Which I own and absolutely love).

I don't know, Dark Basic is all 3D and such...

 
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7th June, 2006 at 23:59:36 -

Keatontech: AJAX stands for Asynchronous JavaScript and XML.

Java != Javascript: Runescape, mobile phones, JSP and mooJava use Java. Website pop-ups, ASP (JScript), GMAIL and Multimap use JavaScript.

The similarity pretty much starts and ends with them both having the word Java in them (derived from a type of Coffee, the traditional source of caffeine for programmers - mountain dew aside) and them both having a syntax similar to C.

Image Edited by the Author.

 
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12th June, 2006 at 22:50:38 -

I've heard that C++ is very powerful, but like they say above you have to do basically everything with it. Thousands of lines of code isn't really all that much really. If you've done any programming before it's actually very easy to have that much or more while creating a large project, especially a game.

Gathering bad programming habits aside, I enjoy Visual Basic even though it's techincally inferior to most. It's a lot better than the regular BASIC I used to do in the 80's, so I can't complain.

Some of the great things that MMF can do for me in a simple step-

Transparency for graphics
Animation object with its own set of built-in alterable variables
Full screen / Resolution changes
Collision detection!

There's more, but those are the main things that impressed me for what I need most of the time.

 
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Keatontech!

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13th June, 2006 at 20:06:11 -

Uhh, I don't think so. I have a Java book that talks about how to make Ajax applications with Java. From my studies I think AJAX is Java running on a server with XUL (A programing language based on XML) telling the browser what to do. AJAX is a big deal, and why would it be if it was just using Javascript? I mean, you've always been able to run Javascript in the browser.

Anyway, I could be wrong. I don't know why there had to be 2 langauges with Java in the name.

 
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Rio



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15th June, 2006 at 01:46:13 -

Now I've got most of what I was looking for out of this post and I thank yall for it. But I feel its getting off topic allitle. So I'll leave it up for a while because some people are still posting interesting information. But I will probibly delete this board soon so wrap it up. I think more people should delete there posts after they are past they'r prime. like when you look through all the boards there is far too many to look through in one day.
But any ways like I said about staying on topic. From what you've all told me, I'm going to get back into MMF since I never really discovered its full potential. And then move on into C++ soon after. Thanks again for the tips.

 
Still searching for the perfect game.

axel

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15th June, 2006 at 10:07:11 -

1. You're not supposed to delete them. Leave the topic open so other people needing advice on this matter can read it later.

2. You're not supposed to read every single topic in a forum. Nobody does. It'd take ages, and...

3. You're not supposed to post in old topics either, so why bother?

 
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DaVince

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16th June, 2006 at 16:50:28 -

Javascript was first named Actionscript, but Sun's goal became to make Java applications and applets accept external code from javascripts. Hence the name 'Javascript'.

 
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Keatontech!

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17th June, 2006 at 21:44:42 -

http://developers.sun.com/ajax/index.jsp?cid=59754 Says AJAX is Java
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AJAX Says AJAX is JavaScript

I'M CONFUSED!

 
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Flava



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18th June, 2006 at 12:52:19 -

Actually they both say its Javascript - you just haven't read it properly

 
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axel

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18th June, 2006 at 14:00:21 -

Fool!

 
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醤油の兵士

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27th June, 2006 at 21:25:16 -

I'd advise against using Java...it's not the kind of language you want to try making a game in. If you want something that is cross-platform, all you really need to do is use a .NET language.

and just so we all have this straight: C# > Java

 
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27th June, 2006 at 23:39:28 -

C++ is a LOT slower if all you want is a simple platformer. If you want a top-down shooter, I've seen some nice ones made in Blitz.

But I like C++. It's very fast at coding simple things so I use it as mainly as a customized calculator to test my formulas and balance stuff.

 
Disclaimer: Any sarcasm in my posts will not be mentioned as that would ruin the purpose. It is assumed that the reader is intelligent enough to tell the difference between what is sarcasm and what is not.

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DaVince

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28th June, 2006 at 07:53:04 -

Remember though, that C++ != C#

 
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Rio



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14th July, 2006 at 00:55:41 -

DAMN! I'll delete whatever the hell I want so long as I made it in the first place, Look through as many old topics as I want, and post old crap or what ever the hell fool.
But all that aside, not all bad points. now c++... oh yeah. I think I got in under controle other than some stuff about compilers and API's

 
Still searching for the perfect game.

DaVince

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14th July, 2006 at 09:54:21 -

You really call half a month old topics dead, then?

 
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DaVince

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14th July, 2006 at 14:58:14 -

Err

 
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The Chris Street

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21st July, 2006 at 13:49:25 -

You'd do well to stop insulting each other guys. And Rio... you got Phizzy confused with me? The Great Almighty Circy?!

Tsk. I'm insulted.

 
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DaVince

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22nd July, 2006 at 09:27:15 -

Hm, I didn't insult anyone, but sure thing, Mr Circy.

 
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renkin



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9th August, 2006 at 20:23:35 -

C++ and Java are both good choices if you want to get into "real" programming. Java is probably a bit easier to get into, and it's a growing language (and platform independent), but C++ is generally faster, and it's the most widely used programming language for both games and other software.

However, if making games is what you wanna do, and you start with a programming language like Java or C++ right away, without any "real" programming experience, there's a huge risk that the learning curve will get you bored very soon. I mean, you can't expect to get any fancy things on the screen soon, if you don't know any programming.

An alternative would be to try out Game Maker, a game making program quite similar to the Click Team products. There's a free version and you can get the full version quite cheap, and it's actually a lot more powerful than most people on TDC seem to think (let's leave it at that). Anyway, the thing is that Game Maker allows for scripting your objects, using a C-style scripting language. This way, you basically have a complete renderer with sound/input/graphics-handling, but you'll still be able to create and "program" your objects, in a very similar way that it would be using C++, for example. This would be a good way to learn how to think like a programmer, and you could still make really cool things quite fast. I myself feel that GM is more powerful and gives me more freedom than MMF (using the scripting language).

So I'd recommend either that, or going straight to Java or C++ using OpenGL for rendering (can do 2D very well, too), if you know you're patient.

Image Edited by the Author.

 
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axel

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10th August, 2006 at 14:17:03 -

I've recently started playing around with Allegro in C++. It's really not as hard as it seems. Well, this far I've only created a spaceship that I can move around in a windowed playfield, but it's a start. And I've only been learning C++ for like half a year, whenever I've had time.

I tried to get into Java, but I just didn't like it for some reason.

And I really don't think GameMaker is an upgrade from MMF, IMO.

 
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renkin



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10th August, 2006 at 19:18:44 -

Not necessarily an upgrade (although I'd say so), but a step towards actual programming.

But Allegro is probably the best choice for Rio, now that you mention it. I haven't messed with it a lot, but it provides you with libraries for everything you need (sound, input, bitmaps), and it seems to do it nicely. I don't know why I forgot about that.

 
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12th August, 2006 at 07:39:33 -

Yeah... BAN HIM!

Oh wait, that's my job.

Eh.

Can't be bothered.

 
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AndyUK

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12th August, 2006 at 10:54:18 -

O.K then i will do it!

 
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Sephirenn

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25th August, 2006 at 16:54:45 -

ALSO, XNA is coming out soon (like Spt. 1st I think). It's a user-friendly tool that is going to be similar to MMF, except for making XBOX 360 games. Not many details have been released yet, but all the interfaces are included, as well as the ability to 'script, code, and extend'. I think the package is going to be free, but to distribute the games on XBOX live, for anyone to get, it's going to be $100 a year. And ten to sell on XBOX live, it'll be a little more, but still reletively inexpensive, because Microsoft is trying to really expand to 'homebrew' audience.

 
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Reno



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12th September, 2006 at 17:14:34 -

Its because Microsoft is awsome. Unlike Sony with it's "I hate homebrew" attitude and bricks our PSP with a POS firmware. Luckly if someone has a 1.5 firmware, you can dump it and reupload it to your 2.6 firmware^^

(If ANYONE ahs a 1.5 PLEASE dump the firmware and send it to me :|)

 
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12th September, 2006 at 18:07:16 -

Irrlicht for C++ is great, its surprisingly easy to use. You can make 2d game with it too, but allegro is probably a better choice for that.

 
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Phredreeke

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13th September, 2006 at 02:25:28 -

Its because Microsoft is awsome. Unlike Sony with it's "I hate homebrew" attitude and bricks our PSP with a POS firmware.

Isn't Sony supplying Linux with PS3? How is that for hating homebrew?

 
- Ok, you must admit that was the most creative cussing this site have ever seen -

Make some more box arts damnit!
http://create-games.com/forum_post.asp?id=285363

axel

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13th September, 2006 at 05:47:40 -

Yeh, Irrlicht and OpenGL are also nice. They can create 2D games too, but I guess if you just want to continue making 2D games you should probably go for something like Allegro or SDL or something.

 
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Rio



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13th September, 2006 at 15:07:50 -

Well, Thanks again for all the input DC people. I have yet to decide what I'm going to be using yet. I'm leaning twards c++ for elaborate well done games, and a little GameFactory on the side for simpler easyer games. Circy sorry for the mixup, your stuff is awsomness. Lucid you said some hulpfull stuff. And shortly I'll be making some BUTALLY EXELLENT GAMES bitches!... By the way I got the chance to E-mail a game programmer from LucasArts, I forget exactly what I asked him and am blurry on what he replyed, but valuable stuff none the less.

Thats it for now...

 
Still searching for the perfect game.

axel

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13th September, 2006 at 15:24:22 -

Umm... Okay. Says the guy who thought C++ was a program? "NO PICTURE EDITOR? GASP!"

Heh. Sorry, but it sounded kind of ironical to me

 
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PeterD



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25th September, 2006 at 06:26:06 -

LOL!

Image Edited by the Author.

 
up coming games from PeterD software:

http://www.create-games.com/preview.asp?id=2818

Klikmaster

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8th July, 2007 at 06:09:59 -

Hey JonWoG, we have page numbers in the forums now! I think you replied to something on the first page _

AJAX is awesome tho.

 
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8th July, 2007 at 08:18:15 -

DUDE!

This post is nearly a year old I think Rio's made his decision by now

 
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AndyUK

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8th July, 2007 at 09:15:50 -

Also keatontech doesn't even visit us anymore. Does he?

 
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8th July, 2007 at 15:01:45 -

Thank god.

 
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9th July, 2007 at 10:10:39 -

Dude, Javascript is Javascript because it allows you to communicate with Java applets and the like, which was Sun's purpose. Microsoft just made VBScript to follow the trend.

Game Maker = sux, it teaches you bad programming habits. Like no functions.

Enough discussing ancient threads from me now.

 
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erathean



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11th July, 2007 at 05:19:44 -

I must admit though the misconceptions around something which is a very simple concept are hilarious. If he'd have spent two seconds looking he'd have found the Adaptive Path article which describes everything perfectly (http://www.adaptivepath.com/publications/essays/archives/000385.php). It would have told him it has nothing to do with the server side software (it can be done using any web language) and it has nothing to do with XUL which is used in Mozilla based applications for user interface.

Now I've got that off my chest I'll shut up and stop discussing old topics.

 
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