when i said it's debatable.. i meant let's leave it to our opinions and i'll respect yours.. i dont want to actually debate why(i dont want a flamewar). just trying to make a point that GameMaker shouldnt be bashed(well, it can be.. but let's keep program bashing to educated bashing ). At most game making communities, people don't go saying "ahaha.. Game Maker sux0rz" or "Game Maker is t00 powerful for feeble Clickers" or crap like that .. it's just gettin kinda annoying to read some of the posts here with the way most people comment on GM to an unnececary extent when they've never really learned it
Hello, I couldn't resist on posting on this topic, since my engine is being used as example :/
*******************************
Quote: I have seen this, and have also seen the 360 degree engines available for Multimedia Fusion and The Games Factory over at the sonic fangame headquaters. They are just as good. MMF will run at 50fps because it is made to do so unless the pc is to slow to. Just because gamemaker syncs to the monitor refresh rate does not make it way better.
---------------------
The 360º engines that are on SFGHQ were made by ParadoxX (original angle detection concept) and me (engine programming), plus other helps on specific stuff (RC on optimizations, DMAshura on platform routines, etc). All the routines and events wich the MMF (and specially, the TGF) versions needed are way more Game Maker's version need, making it faster and less cpu-consuming.
Even if MMF is intended to run at 50 fps, it shouldn't need as much CPU as it requests. A normal Sonic fangame with 1000+ objects (that's the average number of objects on a medium Sonic act) could slowdown up to 35 fps or less even on a P4 1400 mhz.
*******************************
Quote: i know how to use game maker, and it isnt complete crap, but almost. it's non scripting events is completly useless and the scripting is limited in realtion to it's a scrpit. the rooms is completly unproffesionaly made, and it so annoying to work in, looks like something done in 30 minuttes. it produce the BIGGEST EXE i have ever seen in my entire life. and all it can make is games no screensavers no internet games no apps.
and last (in not writing a book so im gonna stop here) isnt it something like there only is 1 or 2 of those extensions ever made.
---------------------
The Drag & Drop events are meant to be easy and simple for let even a 7 years old child do a game. The real strenght of the Game Maker lies within the script, wich isn't in any form as limited as you say, it's more flexible than events as it can handle expression evaluations in a better way than MMF does. Also, you should remember that MMF events are an script language too, so I don't think your point is valid at all. What I agree with you is that the room editor isn't very confortable but it's a minor think since the part that takes more work are just the scripts, for level creating only putting objects is more than enough.
You should know that the Game Maker also produces smaller exe than MMF since you need the runtime dll, and GM doesn't since all the runtime code is integrated on the exe. And as for DLLS, there are more than enough with the same capabilities as MMF ones, also, almost all of the stuff that is required by extensions is done built-in.
*******************************
As for Dines post I won't list all the features GM can handle (</sleepy>, but it can handle a large number of those since there's a large variety of DLLS (check the Game maker forums).
I have to say I've been using MMF for a year and half (or the like) and I've learned a lot, I think they are equally capable to do the same stuff and I like MMF, but it's probed that Game Maker is faster and can do the same in less lines. MMF's interface it's just more beautiful.
Also, there's a very cool feature going on, someone is working on a Game Maker to Java convertor program (since script syntax is very similar to C and C-based ones (Java, PHP, etc) wich would make games easily portable between platforms.
So, stop flaming Game Maker because it's a very good tool, as MMF does.
No one flamed Game Maker, if you haven't noticed, this is our home turf; bringing up old posts and ranting about our preferred software is not acceptable.
Steve Zissou: Anne-Marie, do all the interns get Glocks?
Anne-Marie: No, they have to share one.
Assault Andy Administrator
I make other people create vaporware
Registered 29/07/2002
Points 5686
14th February, 2005 at 02:23:08 -
I have to say I've been using MMF for a year and half (or the like) and I've learned a lot, I think they are equally capable to do the same stuff and I like MMF, but it's probed that Game Maker is faster and can do the same in less lines. MMF's interface it's just more beautiful.
It depends on the coder. A really bad coder may create and RPG writing every line of chatting code such as this:
Press z
+ is overlapping 'bob' - Change string to "hello"
A better coder would write something like this:
Press Z
+ is overlapping friend.group - Change string to [retrieve string from array]
Using the first method it would take you many hundreds of lines, using the 2nd it would take 1 and the rest be simply implemented externally. I'm sure the same thing goes for gamemaker, it depends on the coder.
MMF has the 'calldll' object aswell. So theorhetically it can use all those dlls you just listed.
I would like to put an end to this topic perhaps. The reason you are getting bashed here is this site uses clickteam products and you're like advertising GameMaker here which (I think) no one really cares. So my suggestion is; go somewhere else to be not flamed here buddy.
The main issue people have with this thread is the 'GM is WAY more powerful' line - which even if they *are* equally matched is still untrue by far. 'Equal' does not evaluate to 'Way more powerful than'. It never has, it does not now, and assuming we don't get taken over by logic-bending aliens then it probably never will.
Surely you can imagine our annoyance. Here's someone saying we shouldn't mock GM without trying it (which I personally don't anyway), yet making such a blatantly exaggerated comment like that. No wonder people are complaining, lol.
All software has pros and cons, and I think Dami's post is the fairest yet. There are too many factors involved to really compare the two.
Scripting is always going to be more flexible than an event-based system. That's why Jamagic exists. However events do have their advantages. Spelling mistakes are almost completely eliminated (no forgetting semicolons, or using the wrong type of brackets, or using one '=' instead of two '==' for comparisons, or mis-spelling variables and functions), and there's almost no ploughing through line after line of syntax equations (although GM won't worry about this if it's a compiled language, I don't know).
Events are simpler in concept and easier to understand at a glance than code is too.
So each has their pro's and con's, I suppose it all depends on what you want. MMF and Jamagic are fine for me.
me posting about something I think everyone will agree with anyway is the stupidest shit I've ever heard.. lol(then what would be the point of posting it?). It's much more of a "waste of space" to go on a click site saying "MMF is awesome!"(it is, but.. come on.. everyone would agree). Why don't you stop dictating who enters a virtual world, loser
What you're doing is equivalent to walking into a crowd of black people and yelling "WHITE POWER!"
You only came to TDC to piss people off. If you had come here ethically and said "Hey guys, I use a piece of software called 'Game Maker' and I think it may be on par with MMF." You wouldn’t be getting a bunch of shit right now.
Posting something we might not agree with and flame bait are two totally different things, grow up.
Steve Zissou: Anne-Marie, do all the interns get Glocks?
Anne-Marie: No, they have to share one.
Peblo Custom ratings must be 50 characters or less
Registered 05/07/2002
Points 185
14th February, 2005 at 18:42:30 -
"and no, I'm actually a staff member of THE GAMES PAGE, so don't even mention Super Speed Ball > heh"
That is sooo not true! Liar!
Heh is definitly greater that Super Speed Ball!
"Isn't it always amazing how we characterize a person's intelligence by how closely their thinking matches ours?"
~Belgarath
I don't know what all this about instances is, MMF can do instances perfectly well too (i.e. qualifiers).
Also, I don't know why you're talking about optimisations either. Pre-computed sin tables? Who cares? Running even an uber-fast interpreted script will waste 90% of the CPU time, this applies to both MMF and Game Maker. If you know anything about interpretation then you're going to be doing a whole bunch of CPU instructions just to execute one simple piece of the interpreted script. So unless you're ticking a box which says "Use Hardware Acceleration" or something, your optimisations are not going to make much of a difference, especially on anything faster than 1GHz.
Also MMF is primarily event based, and Game Maker is primarily script based (so you claim)... and scripts are very difficult for beginners to get to grips with. Events are innately easier, IMO.
Did you think 1400mhz was slow? To be honest a 33mhz 486 is slow, and I'm pretty sure a simple MMF platformer would run acceptably on there. I've run an MMF RTS game with 1000 objects on a 600MHz pentium 3, and got around 30FPS. And I tell you, teams of units are doing a lot more than your tree in a sonic platform game.