For me, it's always been the graphics. I can do textures for backgrounds ok, but I can't draw perspective right. And I'm very poor at doing animations quickly. I could do very nice, smooth animation, but it would take me 3 hours just to do a simple 10 frame death scene.
And without graphics... what fun is there in making the game? Lol, not professional enough to really keep my eyes on something as ugly as MMF's interface without something pretty in the background or some fine AI/physics engine to play with.
Disclaimer: Any sarcasm in my posts will not be mentioned as that would ruin the purpose. It is assumed that the reader is intelligent enough to tell the difference between what is sarcasm and what is not.
Peblo Custom ratings must be 50 characters or less
Registered 05/07/2002
Points 185
8th September, 2006 at 01:06:07 -
School.
"Isn't it always amazing how we characterize a person's intelligence by how closely their thinking matches ours?"
~Belgarath
Or, more specifically, the act of taking a ntaural-looking environment and carving it into 16x16 pixels tiles in a unique manner so as to make it usable in a variety of ways while still retaining its organic quality.
That, and bosses. Sprites become so hard to animate when they get so big.
Well, I have a tablet, so graphics are pretty easy. I guess coding gets bogged down because I do it in a really haphazard way. Things get boring, I lose interest, other things come up, etc. I guess once it becomes clear that what I think are good ideas ideas translate into shitty games, or just would involve a lot more work than I care to put into anything, the motivation to continue kind of subsides.
Im too picky with my gfx, like Ill spend a couple of weeks making stuff only to re-do it It is better when I re-do, but wastes time. Then Ive spent so much time on the project, I find myself needing like 1-2 day breaks from it I have excellent motivation from my team though
Really the only thing holding me back is MMF itself. So many wierd bugs, and nothing ever works right the first time.
For example, I just coded a weapon for my game. It should have taken just a couple of hours, tops. In actuality it took me three days of tweaking it and wondering why it wasn't working before realizing that it wasn't my fault, but was yet another bug.
Answer to the original question: Nothing, basically.
When I have a good idea, I will usually finish the game. Also, I enjoy making minigames, which makes them a whole lot of faster to finish. I can't draw anything, so gfx take just 10 % of the development time.
I mean, seriously... are you even making anything in MMF2? Are you aware of the amount of bugs in it? What I coded should have worked, plain and simple. The only reason it didn't is becasue MMF has a bug that is keeping it from working properly. So,yeah, I'm blaming the tool becasue the tool is faulty. If it's through no consequence of my actions then how could I be considered a "poor craftsman?"
That'd be like if you bought a saw from a hardware store that had no teeth, so you couldn't saw a board with it. Would it be fair to say that you just suck at sawing? Hardly. The major difference here is you can't see whether or not MMF2 really has teeth until after you buy it. So try not to be a jerk, all right?
deadeye:
it sounds like you're wrong, but if you want to make excuses for your slow development cycle, it doesn't bother me.
Maybe this is more like if I bought a saw and tried hammering nails with it. Then I got mad at it for not hammering nails properly. Then I got on a message board and complained about it because it didn't work the way I wanted it to. Then some guy I didn't know quoted an aphorism to me and I got all defensive about it. Then I cried myself to sleep because girls don't appreciate my sensitivity and only wnat to be with stupid jerks like that goddamn internet guy. Fuck that goddamn guy goddamn it!!!!! Maybe it's more like that. Just saying.
By a route obscure and lonely,
Haunted by ill angels only,
Where an Eidolon, named night,
On a black throne reigns upright,
I have reached these lands but newly
From an ultimate dim Thule
From a wild clime that lieth, sublime,
Out of space
Out of time.
It more like you're just an idiot who innapropriately spouts irrelevant "pearls of wisdom" in an effort to be an asshole to people you don't even know, and follows it up with childish schoolyard bullying. On the internet, no less.
Isn't that just great for you. You're a really awesome dude.
The inability to make a game up to my own standards keeps me behind from making full blown games. Things like graphics, sounds, and music, need to be top notch or else I just wont feel like what I'm making is worth all the time and effort, hense I lose interest and forget about it.
deadeye:
Oh, you know what? I asked around and, it turns out you're just being a crybaby. I'm not going to hold it against you, though, because you might just be cranky. Maybe a nap or a nutritious snack would help. I likes grapes and pineapples. What do you like?
Aside from throwing comebacks at one another, I'm going to side with Defestrator here, only because he's correct to the extent. MMF2 is very stable if you know what you're doing with it, not to say that anyone who runs into bugs with MMF2, doesn't know what they're doing. MMF2 isn't the most stable piece of software in the world, no doubt, but in the end, it's much more stable then it's predecessor, which did a great job creating both freeware and commercial games for hundreds of folks around the klik community and even the net itself. So yes, Defenstrator has a point when it comes down to blaming MMF2 for faults that you make.
I will admit however, in deadeyes defense here, that I have run into a good bit of issues in MMF2, none of which have pushed something that should have taken a couple hours, out to a few days though. It's all a matter of having multiple backup attempts to do something, just incase the idea wasn't full proof or MMF2 just might not like it for some odd reason.
PS: I think it's easy for anyone to see however, that MMF2 is being updated and patched very nicely thanks to Clickteam keeping up on the demand we pushed on them (to fix the bugs asap) so considering that, I think it's safe to say that unless you're willing to deal with the bugs and stop complaining about them and actually reporting them, just go over to coding. Just understand that if you run into any bugs while you're coding, be prepared to debug your ass off, because unlike in MMF, you're excuse "it wasn't my fault, it was the tool" wont cut it, all problems in a game are your fault, even if it's on another computer with faults of its own. Your job is to make sure the game or application is stable as can be on just about any system you can. This includes making sure minimum requirements actually mean that the application/game runs half way decent.
I tried several different methods to get it working right. Each of which should have worked. I even tried out what I was doing in 1.5 and it worked just fine. And yeah, I came up with a workaround to the problem in the first day. In fact, I came up with a few different workarounds. None of which is very satisfying, considering the fact that I shouldn't have to be going out of my way to work around a faulty program in the first place. The extra day and a half was spent tweaking several different solutions and deciding on the most efficient one.
The game I'm making may look simple on the surface, but the engine that runs it is not. Since I'm going for a completely solid engine it stands to reason that I'm going to run into problems that a lazier coder either won't encounter, or won't care about. In doing so I've discovered new bugs that nobody else had come across yet and reported them to clickteam. So I wasn't "just complaining."
It is frustrating working with a faulty tool. And it does slow down progress. It's interesting to note that nobody seems to want to concede that point. And even though I expressed that frustration publicly it can hardly be considered grounds for some random jerk to be an ass about it.
One key that you will need to learn about MMF is that a flexible engine, especially for custom engines, is the way to do things. If you make sure that every aspect of your engine is running off of things that can be easily tweaked inside say an event, you will find yourself running into much less issues. Example:
Custom engine, you'll need things such as:
Jump Height
Fall Speed
Walk Speed
Acceleration
Rather then hard coding these into the engine, use counters that store that 1 value the entire time the game runs.
So lets say we have a counter for each of these:
Jump Height: A
Fall Speed: B
Walk Speed: C
Acceleration: D
Now if we need to use the fall speed at any time, just put in B, as apposed to an actual number. This will work because if the number of B is always the same, then it shouldn't give you any problems
Now say you wanted to change any of these numbers, have a group run at the start of frame, to set all these numbers, and just change what the number is set to. The rest of the engine will respond, and you've just made a 1 second tweak that WOULD have taken minutes or even hours do to by hand.
This also adds flexibility to the engine for things such as water, say the player jumped into water. If player is in water, raise jump height, lower jump speed, lower walk speed, and lower acceleration. Then when they come out, reset them. The engine will respond, because it's based on variables as apposed to hard programmed numbers.
This leaves a much smaller margin for human error and makes things much easier in MMF's case, so tool bugs are much less likely to occur. Overall, things will perform in your favor.
PS: If you're already aware of this method, that's fine, just know that I'm trying to help, not look down on you.
An additude like that, is why people are more likely to bitch about you the second you walk into the room. The complete opposite of an open mind. Blows to one another as attempts to degrade them, that are a completely different subject, are merely signs of weakness in debate, because you merely can't think of any way to prove them wrong. That's the biggest issue with any kind of arguement, people jump to personal attacks one one another before the arguement even nessarly starts.
Don't get me wrong. I'm glad you agree with me. But, I want you to always look your best, so I'm making some suggestions for your post so that you can learn to be an even better poster in the future. Cheers!
Sentence 1:
You don't need a comma in between "that" and "is." That's just a little thing, though. No worries, mate!
Sentence 2:
This is a fragment. You should have said, "It's the complete opoosite of an open mind." People do that for effect all the time, but that doesn't make it right! Additionally, since you wouldn't say that one thing is the partial opposite of another, you don't need to say that anything is the complete opposite of anything else. So just say, "It's the opposite of an open mind." Of course, this is technically incorrect, as I was not being closed-minded so much as just belligerent. Maybe "It's the opposite of demure" would work better there. Being demure is not really a goal of mine anyway.
Sentence 3:
This is just a mess. It's almost unreadable. That, and you used "merely" twice in one sentence. Try this: "Personal attacks are a weak debate tactic, employed by those who cannot think of any logical counter to their opponent's point of view." Mix it up and add your own funky flavor!
Sentence 4:
This just kind of rephrases the third sentence. It isn't really necessary. That, and "argument" and "necessarily" were misspelled. But, if you really want to put something here, give this a look: "That's the biggest problem with any kind of argument: people start attacking one another on a personal level before any kind of thoughtful discourse can take place." I think that says it quite nicely, don't you? Although, I would contend that the biggest problem with any kind of argument is that people cling to inflexible beliefs and take their defense as a competition, rather than considering the ideas of others and allowing their own opinions to change. Maybe you should begin by acknowledging that your statement is simply your own point of view, as I just did.
All in all, it was a pretty great post! Of course, we all make mistakes from time to time, so don't let it get you down. When we use the power of togetherness, we all grow stronger and more wise!
I've created a few things in MMF2 and haven't run into any bugs that have halted development - so it works fine for me and is far more stable than MMF1 in my opinion. Anyway, stop the nagging with each other - if you want to talk/argue, do it over MSN or mail or something
@defenstrator
When someone talks to you, to get a point accross... the last thing you do is try to 'teach' them how to do it better. I didn't expect/want a reply, just for you to understand where I'm comming from. I could say I appreciate the 'help' but I can't, considering the poor timming you decided to give it to me.
yes, i would have to say that i just lose interest, i believe i have A.D.D. that may play a role. Me and adam have a finished game without music, and its still not released yet after like 2 weeks .
I hate to say it, but being called a cock has really won me over. I guess personal insults really are the best way to settle differences after all. In keeping with that spirit, Shab, quit being such a lazy, useless piece of shit all the time. Noodle, I'm glad you dislike me. Given your love of cocks, it probably means I'm not a cock after all. Brandon, learn to type, you illiterate cunt, and deadeye, it's not MMF; it's you, you stupid fucking retard.
There. I honestly hope that was more to everyone's liking.
Trying to get the last word in, and trying to prove your point when someone else tried to get the last word in, are two different things... the sooner you learn that defenstrator, the better. I still agree with you about MMF2 when it comes to deadeye, but I can't say I agree with your methods of argument. That's not to say they are wrong or right, so I'll leave it at that, agree to disagree.
Now before you reply, note that I did not throw any comebacks, I merely said what was on my mind, so you can either act immature and try to degrade me, or leave it at that, k?
What's-his-face is totally right.
All this fighting has only kept us from making GREAT GAMES, and that's just what they want.
The only way we can defeat Lord Brophirus is by putting aside our differences and joining forces to use the power of friendship to make a GREAT GAME about FRIENDSHIP!!!
I'm guessing Defenestrator is new to click products if he is denies the illogical bugs and bullshit that we have put up with since TGF/Click n Play.
I have every sympathy for deadeye, I know what it is like to struggle against the odds with the crap (I have not bought Fusion2 yet - going to wait till everything is fixed first.)
Don't get me wrong, these programs are excellent but please don't pretend they are bug-free and that people who are struggling against some serious and often invisible problems are bad crafts-men.
I don't really see why everybody has a problem with Defenestrator all of a sudden, he has been a random digibully for years. About MMF2 holding back the progress of a game, it is actually able to screw up a game setting you back a few hours, sometimes killing your interest in finishing it, but it is getting more stable with every new build.
I always find a tingling sensation in my left nut distracts me. I wish I knew what caused it. It hangs slightly lower than the right. Perhaps the sensation is derived from that particular goolie being slightly closer to the Earths core.
Show me the power child,
I'd like to say,
That I'm down on my knees today,
Gives me the butterflies,
Gives me away,
'Til I'm up on my feet again,
I'm feeling outshined.
Graphics...I donno jack about sprites, complex action sequence design, lack of cigarettes. I donno how the hell some of you do such impressive graphics in your games, or where to learn how to do graphics decent enough to support good game designs. That, and when I plan out these games, they are never simply...and the notes for them are more complex then a friggin book nuclear reactor cores
1. Running this bloody website
2. Making my own website
3. My girlfriend
4. Work
5. Dead Rising
6. Test Drive Unlimited
7. Just Cause (when it's released)
8. Shopping
9. Going out most evenings
10. Mostly going out when I get days off
the fact that I suck at coding and the community sucks. if it was full of nice people who also helped you with your coding problems instead of coding problem threads that get 0 replies, insults and flamewars
Advertisement
Post Reply
I have excellent motivation from my team though 
Edited by the Author.
