I wouldnt say I particularly like you,JP, but I agree with him on this one. You havent really started a flame, just given it some fuel. If you read JPs original post youll find, whilst tongue in cheek, it is not really flamatory. Well done to you for that.
'If it weren't for all these aetheists, I'd start an argument with you Phil, but we have a common enemy.'
I am a friend to you Mr Teapot, but thats out of order. Your a sensible bloke, and I am surprised to find that you're religious. If it werent for atheists we'd all be sacrificing people on crosses, introducing plagues on our enemies and turning water into wine...wait that last bit sounds good.
'oh yeah? he's thrown a kettle over a pub, what have you done?'
"I am a friend to you Mr Teapot, but thats out of order. Your a sensible bloke, and I am surprised to find that you're religious. If it werent for atheists we'd all be sacrificing people on crosses, introducing plagues on our enemies and turning water into wine...wait that last bit sounds good."
Istvan, what you just said is out of order. You are basically saying that all religious people are stupid.
I'm not gonna take any sides here, but I will say that if someone is religious you should respect their beliefs. Whether God exists or not, Religion in many cases can help people through their lives, and it gives them something to believe in. I dont mind whether someone believes in God or not, but when someone insults another persons religion, thats just wrong.
Dont use my real name on this site. Thankyou. Oh and Teapot isnt showcasing his amazing weirdness by saying this,'What do we have that's not a car, and slightly faster than walking?'he was actually quoting from a show we both love.
TomF,my post was intended for Teapot, but if you want to take it as a general comment than you're quite welcome to it. I am surprised to find he is religious as Ive spent many evenings discussing un-religious matters, and Ive found we have a lot in common, however he is of the religious persuassion.
I also tire of such religious debates, but this being a post on that exact topic, than I believe this is the time and place to do this, and I believe we can do so maturely.
I stand by my post that suggests religious people are niave. I dont need to respect their believes, I can however ignore them, which I often do.
Youve mentioned how religion is good for people, teaches them morals, gives them a purpose if you will. What about religious wars? How can a war be religious when almost all religion sees killing as a sin? What about when mass corporations take advantage of religious events like Christmas and Easter after nothing more than money? What about when the legal system incorporates religion into the law and than justifies the killing of a murderer (? Surely 'God' should be their judge and not us. These examples seem hipocritical of all the ways religion should benefit society, and the closer you look you'll see that everythings a sham.
Perhaps religion meant something back in the day, before science had advanced, and we have things like the internet and tv to inform us otherwise, but today it meands nothing. We are aware of the faults, lies and myths of religion and still people choose to believe. Which is all good and well because that is their choice, and if not for that choice I would not have such a juicy arguement to enjoy.
The way I see it is if someone is born into religion, raised from birth that way, in a happy household and never experienced otherwise than they havent chosen that path and their veiws are always going to be bias. To me, in todays society, atheism represents that someone has made a choice, a choice that they will not believe in the fairy tales of their forefathers, and to me thats an important sign.
In concluding, believe in what you want, I only care if you get annoyed at people who choose not to believe in anything. Thanks for reading. Good night!
'oh yeah? he's thrown a kettle over a pub, what have you done?'
Yeah istvan, I don't like flame wars because they usually end up with one side being sore, and disagreements online take a while to be patched up. and maybe you will particularly like me someday.
Steve Zissou: Anne-Marie, do all the interns get Glocks?
In reply to Istvan's post, yeah you've made a few good points there, but I'd like to take some a little further.
"I stand by my post that suggests religious people are niave. I dont need to respect their believes, I can however ignore them, which I often do."
Right, okay. I don't give a shit if you ignore religion, that's fine with me. But when you insult religion, you are insulting something that people base their lives around, and that's just fucking harsh.
Next paragraph you talk about religious wars which I have to agree are pointless and a waste of time. Also you talk about religious events being overwhelmed by the commercial side of things, which is also true. Often we get so caught up in these events that we forget the true meaning behind them.
"Perhaps religion meant something back in the day, before science had advanced, and we have things like the internet and tv to inform us otherwise, but today it meands nothing. We are aware of the faults, lies and myths of religion and still people choose to believe."
You see, the way you phrase that is out of order. Religion may mean nothing to you, but many people base their lives on it, and surely it means something to them?
"To me, in todays society, atheism represents that someone has made a choice, a choice that they will not believe in the fairy tales of their forefathers, and to me thats an important sign."
Religion is also a choice. No one is "forced" to believe anything, at least not where I live. And you describle religious scriptures as "fairy tales". There is little proof that religious scriptures are true, but there is even less proof that relious scriptures are false. You cannot call them "fairy tales" because you dont actually know whether they are facts or not.
In conclusion, ignore religion if you will, but think twice before you go around insulting religion like an obnoxious bastard.
Actually I am not wrong, everything I said was a fact. JP, you need to learn to show people some respect and stop throwing your stupid insults around. You just seem to want to start flamewars, instead of having a good debate, as is demonstrated by the fact that you insult people more than you give any rational reasons for your arguments.
99 percent chance that the above post is 100 percent correct.
Do you know what's worse than having a religion in general? Not having ANY religion. Come on, there OBVIOUSLY is a god? Not doing anything about it isn't gonna help. It was recorded that Jesus fulfilled 62 prophecies in the Roman thingy. The odds of that happening on accident is less than the odds of picking one random ion out of every ion in the entire universe. There were 10 recorded plagues in Egypt when the Israelites were slaves. How were all the first-born males slain?
Of course, that's proof, which i recall saying was bad, so don't point out the fact that I am a hippocrite. Really. Sorry about the bad metaphors. It was REALLY late and I wasn't feeling good...
Oh well. If something at all, at LEAST take a side. Oh, and Muz, most of those people who commit suicide are Islam and Muslim (and were probably just stupid anyways).
Games currently in "the works":
Moonrise
My Fantasy (dieing dream)
Shadowed Sunset (this one will be cool)
Dragon Riders (Newer, better animated, cooler, and less gradient version!)
....................
www.phil-con.com baby!
JP, you need to learn to show people some respect and stop throwing your stupid insults around.You just seem to want to start flamewars, instead of having a good debate, as is demonstrated by the fact that you insult people more than you give any rational reasons for your arguments.
I don't see JP insulting many people around here. He's responded well to everyone, with hardly any offensive words. I believe you may be addressing the wrong person or maybe mistook some of his comments.
istvan:
I myself am a religious person, though I pretty much follow my own version of Islam, instead of going with the heavily modified versions of the religion over the years. While you're right in some ways in that atheism represents a choice, in most ways today, it doesn't. A lot of people become athiests just so they could look at porn, have extramaritial sex, gamble, and drink all the beer they want, whether they realise it or not. It's more of curing guilt rather than free will most of the time.
As I see it, most religious wars are pointless. Truth is, if you look carefully enough, you'll notice that 90% of the aggressors of a religious war are just using religion as a cover-up for power.
The Crusades? Political. It let all those feuding European nations focus their wars on one common enemy. Just take a look at history during that time and you'll understand.
The 9/11 incident? Political or economical. I'll not mention much on it now, but if you look, all of the evidence on how the suicide bombers were Muslims were very, very poor and only accepted because people WANTED revenge on someone but didn't know who it was. I could write a whole book on it.
The kidnappings in the area of the Phillipines? Political as well. They want their own country, so why not kidnap people and say it's in the name of religion?
Religion in itself is not a problem. It's how people interpret religious scriptures and use it to their needs that cause so many problems in the world. And there are those annoying clerics who make up stuff just for fun or to be noted down in history. Yes, there are plenty of naive religious people but just as many naive atheists. Unfortunately, the naive just go with peer pressure.
Philipe:
That was one of the poorest debate points I've ever seen. It would only work in front of a bunch of believers, but you've left flaws all over the place. "If there is a Paul" indeed... of course there's one . LOL, a simple glance at Christianity would tell anyone that.
For one thing, you have no mention of the 'proof'. IMHO, sad thing is, God just left us here to figure out everything for ourselves. Well, there were several clues a long, long time ago, but as clues go, people tend to bend and twist them to their own needs. To take your metaphor, many people took your "Rock Solid Proof", planted trees around it, carved their names in it, and started some massive amusement park all over it. You'd be lucky to find where the heck the "Rock Solid Proof" used to be... so most people just go to some nearby brainwashing roller coaster ride.
Disclaimer: Any sarcasm in my posts will not be mentioned as that would ruin the purpose. It is assumed that the reader is intelligent enough to tell the difference between what is sarcasm and what is not.
Do you know what's worse than having a religion in general? Not having ANY religion. Come on, there OBVIOUSLY is a god? Not doing anything about it isn't gonna help. It was recorded that Jesus fulfilled 62 prophecies in the Roman thingy. The odds of that happening on accident is less than the odds of picking one random ion out of every ion in the entire universe. There were 10 recorded plagues in Egypt when the Israelites were slaves. How were all the first-born males slain?
Of course, that's proof, which i recall saying was bad, so don't point out the fact that I am a hippocrite. Really. Sorry about the bad metaphors. It was REALLY late and I wasn't feeling good...
Oh well. If something at all, at LEAST take a side. Oh, and Muz, most of those people who commit suicide are Islam and Muslim (and were probably just stupid anyways).
Come on JP, if everyone was offended by a religious statement or symbol, then there would be NO religion. You can't fully understand and accept a religion without doing something about it, because that's part of the religion. Church and state is stupid. It's practically saying that you can have a religion but you can't do anything about it anyways.
Look, I wasn't saying all the christians should kill every atheist. That's not neccesary. I'm just saying that you can punch the guy who's about to murder you or attack the guy who's about to mug you. Come on, that SHOULD be a given, but noooooo, its what's politically correct that is right these days. If there was no violence, than the world would still be fighting over stuff in debate. We would still have slaves, right? Nothing would happen in the world. Just think about it.
But in the end, theres 9 to 1 ratio of Christians to Everyone else in America, so conform to the patterns of this world!! BWAHAHAHA!! WE COULD KILL YOU EASILY!! GIVE IN TO PEER PRESSURE!!! HAHAHAHAHA!!
Look, stop talking about Christianity in the tone of "Religion is still good for people whether its right or wrong" plz, bcuz that is just stupid. It's not the FACT of the religion being upholded, its merely the religion itself (Christianiy most of the time ) that's doing them good. God blesses those who follow him. (DUH)
Alas, my ceaseless rambling must cease, for I'm getting tired of typing a lot. Oh well. Just to let you know, I'm not trying to be TOO serious about this stuff. I think we would be a lot better off arguing in a more effecient manner, not like the average Religion vs. Religion debate. In the end, everyone walks away more determined that they are right. It's happened to me in EVERY stupid debate. Let's keep things simple (I'm gonna get carried away)
Games currently in "the works":
Moonrise
My Fantasy (dieing dream)
Shadowed Sunset (this one will be cool)
Dragon Riders (Newer, better animated, cooler, and less gradient version!)
....................
www.phil-con.com baby!
A reply two posts before I posted.... damn, you're fast, Phillipe .
BTW, I really don't understand this thing between Jews, Christians, and Muslims. I mean, it's obvious from whatever tainted version of all the scriptures that all of them worship the same God. The Bible mentioned some last prophet from one of Abraham's children (i.e Muhammad) and the Quran's got plenty of mention of stuff from the Bible. I haven't really read the Torah yet, but it's pretty much the same as both, or so I heard.
Disclaimer: Any sarcasm in my posts will not be mentioned as that would ruin the purpose. It is assumed that the reader is intelligent enough to tell the difference between what is sarcasm and what is not.
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. LOL, a simple glance at Christianity would tell anyone that.
) that's doing them good. God blesses those who follow him. (DUH)