I'd have to agree, Robboomer. I mean, I do think it would have been smarter to go after OSAMA first, but still, the American soilders do need more help, or else Iraq will be doomed.
Fine Garbage since 2003.
CURRENT PROJECT:
-Paying off a massive amount of debt in college loans.
-Working in television.
Pete Nattress Cheesy Bits img src/uploads/sccheesegif
Registered 23/09/2002
Points 4811
22nd April, 2004 at 15:53:36 -
why not. they're their troops, after all, it's not their war, it's america's, and they've just suffered a devestating terrorist attack, supposedly aggrevated by their involvement. i support their decision. i think britain should follow suite; the yanks made this mess, they can clean it up.
Actually, I'd love to see every last country get their troops out of iraq until the USA finally get off their high horse and let the UN handle that thing. If they don't want the UN in then they should do what they want to but do it alone. Currently, they get without giving, and that's nothing that should be supported imho.
im sick to god of all this Iraq crap. EVERYTHING on the news is about iraqi idiots capturing and killing and palestinian suicide bombers... its gonna sound racist but the middle east is causing so much problems at the moment. but i blame it all on brainwashing by pricks like Sadam and Bin Laden.
Iraq is gay for letting sadam into power and America is equally gay for picking a fight with someone cuz they feel weak after the 9/11 episode. and the UK is gay for following!
PS. i dont really mean the countries but the god forsaken leaders.
Spain is cool i like it in its cheap and faux-flashy lifestyle. i dont think they should pull out.
Everything would be much better if Bush had done his homework.. i mean, he put some of Saddam's old leaders in charge of certain sections of the country; how stupid is that ?
Generally, i think they started a war without thinking once about how they would establish order in the country.
They're probably just out to make as much chaos as possible so they can get oil.
- and if Tony's Bush's poodle, then what the hell is Anders Fogh (the leader of my country) ? he was on the frontpage of some crappy newspaper just because Bush called him over the phone...how stupid is that ?
i think spain has every right to pull their troops out of iraq, but they probably shouldent. Doing it so soon after the madrid bombings means the terrorists succeded in their goal. and that is surely only going to spur them on more.
To be honist, i dont think any meddeling country is going to bring peace to iraq, or the middle east in general, espeshily the usa, who are widely hated in that part of the world. theres to many terrorist groups and corrupt or military govermants.
And most of these terrorists beleave they are doing gods will (funny how religion can be used as an excuse for violence), which means they are not just going to give in.
NO? you want spain to keep helping U.S.A. on their saddist campaing of terror? At the costs of terrorism in Spain? wich, btw, already started(not sure if you saw all that in the news). Anyway, what the HELL are american troops doing in Iraq, it´s HELL over there, i bet they kind of miss Saddam now.
I vote YES, remove their troops.
Poodles have been voted the smartest dogs ever. But secretly, they are really robots with little aliens in them. They plan to blow up the secret layer of Tony Blaire, but it's Adam West to the rescue. But then he explodes randomly. Yay! The world is now rid of the evilyness of...ADAM WEST. Now to deal with the poodle-demons.
Fine Garbage since 2003.
CURRENT PROJECT:
-Paying off a massive amount of debt in college loans.
-Working in television.
BUT now that we won the so called war we have a duty to stay and at least try to sort out the mess we have caused. More people are dieing now then when saddham was in power, which is very sad.
Yes saddham killed 10000s of people but we have killed 1000s in a very short time. Maybe after a few more years we will catch up .
I dont support the leadership of UK / USA etc for the way they have handled this, but i do support the troops on the ground.
I still feel this mess will come back and bite the UK/USA very hard on the butt.
Britain probably will pull out of the war especially if we join the EU, which will be likely considering the way the referendum will no doubt go...
xPadx
n/a
Pete Nattress Cheesy Bits img src/uploads/sccheesegif
Registered 23/09/2002
Points 4811
25th April, 2004 at 05:45:37 -
i'd have hoped we'd have pulled out anyway by the time of signing the EU constituion (if the referendum passes, that is, i'd definetly be voting against it if i was 1.
I just CAN'T figure it out WHY????
There's no f**king reason to send troops to a country; even IRAQ!!!
In my opinion -and the 99% of GReek people- is that USA=NAZIs!!!
The US goverment is a MENACE for mankind. THEY decide WHERE to strike
and WHEN without asking anyone. United Nations are nothing more than PUPPETS.
Sadam WAS a dictator BUT only the Iraqi people had the right to hunt him down.
If the USA wanted to "help" these "poor misguided fools" (=Starsailor )
could very easily "attack Sadam's army", hunt him down, catch him and return home leaving there a new and free DEMOCRACY... In that case I would support'em.
THEY DIDN'T AND THEY WANT DO THAT!
They want a pupper regime there to control the rest of the middle east with
their little stupid allies the EGLAND and ISRAEL.
They're imperialists; which i hate!
This "NEW ROME" is about to fall and tries to hang on!
11/9 was the first strike in your tiny-weeny-lill-world
and YOU have freaked out!!!
I'm not supporting terrorists and I believe that kind of attacks
are not "an action of braveness"; you cannot kill innocent people, women and children
just in order to VENGEANCE your people's elimination...
The Palestinians (as someone referred) are fighting for their HOMELAND in case you didn't notice!
Anyway, the US people are fooling themselves if they believe that they can DECIDE FOR ALL HUMANITY! The Spanish goverment got their lesson -many innocents died/many troops also- and after the Spanish PEOPLE's decision they're pulling their troops out of there.
A last question: does any of you (mostlly the US and EN guys) know that a huge outbreak/revolution against USA and their so called "alliance" has started from the day that US ARMY won the "war"??? I guess not, the CNN/BBC PROPAGANDA does not tell you such "stories"...
"The fate of the empire is to crash in to the ground!" a Greek historian (i don't remember its name -sorry)
So give peace a chance.
n/a
Pete Nattress Cheesy Bits img src/uploads/sccheesegif
YESSS!! i can vote ill probably be voting in this referendum before the local elections take place. Tony blair makes me laugh but as a PM he's not bad. but labour is crap vote conservative
Maybe I shouldn't have mentioned this at all if I knew it was going to cause tension. True: It does sound like spain is bending to the terrorists demands but the only reason they are pulling out is because the president who dupported Bush did not get reelected. While it may have been smarter to go after Osoma first let me ask you this: Do you know where he is? And we tried going to the UN but no one would support us. Bush has done his homework. Would you rather have a bunch of clerics toting around religious dogmas supporting terrorism in charge? And those positions are only temporary. First, americans aren't on a 'saddist campaing of terror'. Secondly, we're just trying to clean up the mess we should have finished decades ago and taken care of suddahm then. To Black Wizards-Greek Clickers: The palestinians are not fighting for their homeland: God gave that to isreal and they drove them out. second: we are not nazis or some bloody new rome. If americans are bloody Nazis then why did we destroy hitler(oh wait, was he your hero) and if suddam didn't obey the un inspectors we wouldn't be there. Its their own stupid fault for bringing us down on them.
All platforming problems can be mostly solved here:
Tension? TENSHUN!!!1, if that is like, non-nerdy for flaming, THATS WHY WE HAD A FORUM! I personally support spains decision, it's their troops, and they already have enough mindless dumbasses blowing eachother up for the remaining WOMD's, note: they're not under the chair, Georgy.
And now for something totally unrelated: Eat pete's ranking.
"Everytime you use Kazaa, a metallica band member dies a little."
Quote Jonathon Smeby.
" You realize that if Kerry wins the presidential election he's also going to pull the troops out of iraq.
this is going to sound bad but...Vote Bush! "
---This is bullshit. Kerry has no intention of pulling out troops. Kerry is going to hand power over to the U.N., and if anything send more troops. He will futher more build a larger coalition and hopefully apologize to the world for our previous...shitty leader.
Due to US military intelligence, and classified data, I believe that the people running our country are running it in the best possible way.
I don't particularly like Bush, but he has advisors, he has agencies, there are checks and balances. Anyone in his position would be making the same decisions. The reason it may not seem good to us is because we don't get all the information that they get.
I don't care what a 16-year old has to say about politics or world view. He doesn’t have the CIA, NSA, and countless other agencies feeding him information.
The strongest country in the world didn't get it’s power from the whims of stupid leaders. Bush is not running the country, there are many people that run the country, including it‘s citizens.
To the Black Wizard
There are many reasons you can't kill a country's leader and then leave, it would be chaos over there. We don't want to spend our fucking lives and money babysitting Iraq, but they obviously can't control themselves. Did you see the looting on TV? After they looted their government offices, they got angry at the US for not stopping them.
Comparing the US to Nazis? How stupid can you be. Wake up, and quit making puerile comparisons.
Of course we know about the "outbreak/revolution" we live in a free world, and have access to the net. CNN and BBC don't hold anything back, I doubt you have seen CNN or BBC, so keep your mouth shut.
Up until WWII, the USA had taken a separatist stance on the world's problems, we simply didn't want to get involved in your shit. Then the Japanese attacked us.
After we kicked their asses, we had to go help the French, and so on. Now we have to have a big military to keep the peace from countries that don't like us, and countries don't like us because we have a big military.
Ok, now let's say you got your way, and we got rid of all our nukes, and all our troops and ships and planes, threw away all of our military. What would happen?
North Korea would use their nukes, the Mid-East would erupt in warfare, and probably attack the US because we don't have a military, and some other country would take the US's place as the military power.
So quit your bitching and accept it, the USA's military force is necessary until the other countries quit acting like kids. We keep you safe, and until the world is perfect, we need force.
Steve Zissou: Anne-Marie, do all the interns get Glocks?
"I don't care what a 16-year old has to say about politics or world view. He doesn’t have the CIA, NSA, and countless other agencies feeding him information. "
Yeah well you damn well better care cause the 9/11 commission is saying that our security agencies need reform...Obviously if we thought WMD's existed, yet they did not; then theres a problem.
i might not have the CIA, NSA, ect. I have to trust the president. You know what, i as a citizen, am the presidents boss; and if he fucks up I have something to say about it.
I didn't hire him to lie.
And another thing: What if Iraq's gov't collapses. What then. Hmm, ever consider the possibility of more terrorism? I think so. We need international support, but if people are pissed off and don't want to help us then we can't say Fuckoff and call them enemies. Thats there democratic choice.
The 9/11 commission? What a joke, how do you know they aren’t lying to you too? And I have to listen to 16 year old politics because the commission said our security agencies need reforming? You had nothing to do with that.
You didn't hire him to lie? You hired him to do his job, and he cant do it if he has to explain every little step to people. Liberalism works in theory, but not in real life.
What if the government collapses??? Are you stupid or what? That’s exactly why we are in Iraq, to make sure their government will some day be able to take care and govern it's own people.
And no one said "Fuck off" and called anyone enemies, metaphor or no metaphor, it's the other countries choice if they want to help us.
"That’s there democratic choice" Who's democratic choice? WTF are you talking about? first of all it is THEIR, secondly, what the hell are you talking about?
Steve Zissou: Anne-Marie, do all the interns get Glocks?
I think that no country should pull out its troops in the middle of a war. The usa could probably sort out this mess single handed but the uk wont ever pull out now we have made a commitment, we owe a lot to the usa.
the real problem is that now there is no real control in iraq, suicide bombers and other fanatics are trying to cause the most damage as they can to the coalition and this will hinder the attempts to set up a government and handing over power back to iraq.
pulling out now would be stupid. Not attacking saddam a year ago would have been better.
"The 9/11 commission? What a joke, how do you know they aren’t lying to you too? And I have to listen to 16 year old politics because the commission said our security agencies need reforming? You had nothing to do with that. "
Im telling you they need reforming because George tenet said there were stockpiles of Weapons of Mass Destruction. So, how about those weapons?
"Liberalism works in theory, but not in real life. "
Thats the stupidest thing I've ever heard. I think you've been reading to much ann coulter.
Yeah, and conservatism is great if you want to waste money. The fact of the matter is, not one of the Republican presidents in the last 50 years has raised money for the gov't. They've spent and spent. the Democratic Presidents however, have raised money.
Im not liberal by any means. Im independant.
I may have said enemies, but what I really meant was we pissed people off. We ought to not do that.
All I have to say is its good to get all your opinions sorted out with each other, but if you really feel strongly about them, why not try to bring them up to someone that can actually do something about it? I mean, I'm not trying to be all like "call someone who cares" but yeah, I'm all for descussion, but if your just bringing it up here and getting all heated about it, but not really taking any action with your ideas, then I guess your no different than anyone like me or others like me that say, I really don't care.
But yeah, the leaders could use a little work with what they are doing, and I don't think it's fair for anyone to blame the soldiers. The fact is, some of you people complain about bush, and all those other so called leaders, but you have to think, will other people do a much better job? Granted the world is in shambles, but it could be much much worse. We could have a leader so retarded that he would try to attack France and Spain and all those other countries that aren't "helping".
But in my opinion, I hate polotics, and government, I could careless to vote, so therefore I won't complain about what happens. I'd say we should have an anarchy, but people are too stupid for that to work. All I know is that there are alot of things that we problably will never fix, so we all should just sit back and relax for awhile. And if you want to get all huffy and start yelling, piss off, sit down and get a punching bag or something, sheesh.
Gosh do I ever read what I write? I should save some of this garbage for english class.
i think the ideal thing would be for the world to be united. Some could say it´s better to be separated in countries. Some know there are too many things that strongly block the posibility of the world to erase countries frontiers.
When we talk about countries here we dont talk about the ppl who live in, even if each person always defends their own country. But you are not your country, and you dont make the decitions your president makes, and ppl usually hate their own president. Sometimes the presidents steal from their own country, sometimes they are just puppets.
Well yes, alot of people hate their leaders, but alot like their leaders. Dogzer, your idea of taking away borders in the world is great, but that would be an anarchy by itself. You got to think, if there was some sort of government to govern the whole world, who would do the job? Alot of contries don't believe in voting, and it would be hard,and virtually impossible to "rule the world". And If we did get rid of all the borders and just had anarchy, it would be a complete waste of time. Everyone would rule them selves, and eventually people will come together in groups, then form their own areas to keep themselves protected, kind of like mideval times. And after awhile, we'll get territories with there own leaders, and then as soon as we know it, we'll have borders again.
You all have to rememeber that people are all retarded. I'm retarded, your retarded. Your mom is retarded. We let people who go crazy with power get power. We let the greedy have all the money. We let immoral things be legal and moral things become illiegal. We've changed survival of the fittest to survival of the dude with the best gun. But unfortunatly, there is nothing we all can do about it except wait.
It's very important to debate this point and to defend your beliefs passionately because I sense that the people with real influence on the Iraqi situation are just sitting around waiting for someone here to be named Winner of The Very Important Argument so they can adjust their foreign policy accordingly.
Defenestrator: Hilarious. But I am not here because I think Bush is hanging around in the TDC waiting for advice, I'm here because it feels good to voice your opinion. And crushing an opponent with words gives me a euphoria that is incomparable to drugs.
Again, I am coming up with a big post, but right now I have green shit flowing freely out of my nostrils.
Steve Zissou: Anne-Marie, do all the interns get Glocks?
Meanwhile I hate people who are against Iraq so they can be "controversial". It isn't an invasion, it's solidarity. We are staying in Iraq to show them how to govern a country. We are saving so many lives.
JP: Hey how do you know Im 16? Hey you don't! Oh man, that was so good. You got the "short reply" and everything! So sassy of you. I bet you felt so good when you typed that in. Or as you call it a "Euphoria". Awesome. Short response, yay.
So you doing some research in your little ann coulter book or what ?
(quote)
"...we got rid of all our nukes..."
-I don't think we should get rid of all the nukes. But, because we have enough to destroy the planet 3 times over we should really limit ourselves to say maybe 50. I think 50 is more than enough to win any war. I think we should continue to build up our armies. I think we should build the first robot army so that we would have 0 casualties in the next war. That would be cool.
Man, Ann coulter is dumb.
(quote)
"Meanwhile I hate people who are against Iraq so they can be "controversial". It isn't an invasion, it's solidarity. We are staying in Iraq to show them how to govern a country. We are saving so many lives."
If you think Im doing this to be controversial your wrong. Im doing this cause it's what I believe in.
I think it's great that we are freeing the Iraqi people. Great, why did we say there were WMD's there? Furthermore, were is the connection between Al-Queda and Saddam Hussein?
Why doesn't Bush just say he fucked up, is it so hard?
By the way, didn't anyone think that we might be creating more terrorsim in Iraq then were eliminating?
Terrorism doesn't take the form of a country. You can't attack Iraq and say "HEY, it's gone; the terrorsim is gone!".
And as for the lives we are saving? The U.S. had a trade embargo on Iraq the last decade and we didn't send them any medicine so thousands of baby's died. It's estimated that since we didn't take out Saddam in 91 some 1 million people have died as a result. Yeah, lots of lives saved.
Lets get one thing straight. Im not for terrorism. Im not for saddam hussein. Im for freeing Iraq. I don't think this administration is doing enough to counter terrorism. I don't think the way to eliminate terrorism is by going into Iraq though. Thats a liberating mission, which if that had been the primary cause of the Iraqi war; with more planning, I would've been OKAY with! What we need to do is strengthen our borders, defense. The best offense is a good defense.
Why am I so pissed though? After all we are freeing the Iraqi people? We created Iraq. We Created Al-Queda. Do your homework. You'll find we had huge rolls in creating both. Know, however; President Bush is only offering contracts to primarily U.S. companies. The U.S. is facing all the deaths. Were stealing oil from the Iraqi people. We are too close with the Saudis. We rushed in, without plans. It's a mess.
One last thing. Bob Woodwards book. Pres. Bush and John Kerry both said to read it. Funny thing is, Pres. Bush said read it and his administration said "but, this and this and this...is not true." The rest is real!
(sigh) I was hoping to stay outta this, but oh well... time to voice MY opinion.
1. War is almost always bad. The loser suffers HUGE economic problems and the 'winner' still suffers. The only time war was ever good is when some country assimilates another completely, like um... ancient China.
2. STOP LISTENING TO THE GODDAMN MEDIA, YOU DAMN IDIOTS! Everything they say supports whatever the government does, right or wrong. Those that attempt to go unbiased (e.g. BBC, get bashed like HELL).
3. I once thought 50% of the world were blind sheep, but now I think it's more like 80%. Like a wise person once said, "No one make conscious decisions anymore and I hate it!" Most people are either scared of peer pressure or just plain naive. It's far worse in the real world than it is here in the DC. Thing is, only smart people bother to make games and it sickens me to see how so few people here realise that they're smarter than the rest of the world.
4. Liberalism doesn't work in theory. Democracy doesn't work. Socialism doesn't work. Monarchy doesn't work. No goverment system EVER works the way it's meant to. The only goverment system that would work is if INTELLIGENT people were candidates and weren't elected by gullible fools.
5. There's no such thing as good and evil. "Good" is whatever we are. "Evil" is whatever opposes us. America thinks terrorists are evil. Terrorists think America is evil. The only people who would admit to being "evil" are immature punks who think it's cool to be mean.
6. "We are staying in Iraq to show them how to govern a country. We are saving so many lives."
No offense, Teapot, but that's just what pisses me off most about western nations. They think they're perfect while the little 3rd-world countries are primitive. The western media always hides the civilian casualties, though Asian newspapers often try to dig up every single civilian loss (kids with bullets in their heads, lost arms, etc).
7. Don't take it so hard on the world leaders. No matter what they do, someone will complain. Human nature. People tend to grab every word and either twist it against them or towards them. Don't believe me? Look at the comments on most of the articles I wrote recently .
As for the pulling out thing, I support it all the way. They can't do a thing for people who won't listen. They destroyed hospitals with those stupid so-called accurate cruise missiles and 'smart bombs'. You leave people there... soldiers and civilians die. You take them out, civilians die. Either way, someone dies. Best hope is to pull out and hope that the Iraqis kill each other or move to another country. They'll get bored eventually and elect another Saddam. Anarchy never lasts.
Disclaimer: Any sarcasm in my posts will not be mentioned as that would ruin the purpose. It is assumed that the reader is intelligent enough to tell the difference between what is sarcasm and what is not.
Disclaimer: Any sarcasm in my posts will not be mentioned as that would ruin the purpose. It is assumed that the reader is intelligent enough to tell the difference between what is sarcasm and what is not.
OK DEC, you first. My rebuttals in chronological order to your posts.
4/29/2004
DEC: " 'Liberalism works in theory, but not in real life.' That’s the stupidest thing I've ever heard. I think you've been reading to much Ann coulter."
I don't think you know what Liberalism is, so here is a definition for you:
"A political theory founded on the natural goodness of humans and the autonomy of the individual and favoring civil and political liberties, government by law with the consent of the governed, and protection from arbitrary authority."
Because that has some big words in it, let me break it down for you: Liberalism's based on people. Why it wont work? Because people (you) are stupid. Therefore we need the select few to run the country, people we vote in that have our best interest in mind.
Ann Coulter? Never heard of her, nor read anything she has written. And I bet neither have you, your hate and ignorance of her probably stems from your short sightedness, and intolerance of people with different views.
DEC: "Yeah, and conservatism is great if you want to waste money.
I don't think you know what conservatism is. Conservatives want to keep the best in society and oppose radical changes. You have to spend money to make money.
Ok so your an independent, who gives a rip? And if your an independent, why are you advocating democrats?
And for the last time DEC, you do NOT VOTE, and I know your NOT above 18. How do I know? Because your account was created on 7/7/2003, and your profile says your 16. So quit the bullshit.
Referring to your last post:
DEC: " So you doing some research in your little Ann coulter book or what ?
(quote)
'...we got rid of all our nukes...'
-I don't think we should get rid of all the nukes. But, because we have enough to destroy the planet 3 times over we should really limit ourselves to say maybe 50. I think 50 is more than enough to win any war. I think we should continue to build up our armies. I think we should build the first robot army so that we would have 0 casualties in the next war. That would be cool.
Man, Ann coulter is dumb. "
So you take it automatically that when I am quiet for a while I start to read books by an author that I never heard of, and that you brought up?
Until this post I had never heard of her, so shut your trap.
Also, it would be good if you could say who you are quoting, because you are making it look like I said all that stuff, and also put quotation marks around ALL of the quote, because I don't know when the quotes end, and your stupid comments begin.
Jesus tap-dancing Christ, your inept argument continues:
DEC: " Great, why did we say there were WMD's there? Furthermore, were is the connection between Al-Queda and Saddam Hussein? "
That’s an easy one, THERE ISNT! The only thing they have in common is that they are terrorists. This is a war on terror.
DEC: "Why doesn't Bush just say he fucked up, is it so hard? "
The same reason you don't say you fucked up, he believes that he is doing the right thing, and I will side with him because he is smarter, and has more resources than you.
DEC: "By the way, didn't anyone think that we might be creating more terrorism in Iraq then were eliminating? "
What? By making other countries hate us? Sure, but we win in the long run, after we eliminate terrorism. Your short sightedness angers me. Saying that republicans haven't raised money for the government? The terms are only 4-years, at most they can have 2 terms. Hardly enough time to reap in benefits from long term investments, which the Democrats have been getting the rewards of.
DEC: "terrorism doesn't take the form of a country. You can't attack Iraq and say 'HEY, it's gone; the terrorism is gone!".
I guess you don’t understand why we are in Iraq
“And as for the lives we are saving? The U.S. had a trade embargo on Iraq the last decade and we didn't send them any medicine so thousands of baby's died. It's estimated that since we didn't take out Saddam in 91 some 1 million people have died as a result. Yeah, lots of lives saved.”
A lot more lives saved than if we hadn’t, good thing BUSH had the mind to take out Saddam.
DEC: “Why am I so pissed though? After all we are freeing the Iraqi people? We created Iraq. We Created Al-Queda. Do your homework. You'll find we had huge rolls in creating both. Know, however; President Bush is only offering contracts to primarily U.S. companies. The U.S. is facing all the deaths. Were stealing oil from the Iraqi people. We are too close with the Saudis. We rushed in, without plans. It's a mess.”
You seem so hypocritical, Bush didn’t create Al-Queda, you seem to displacing all your anger on Bush. The country is using our president as a scapegoat, and that isn’t right. Just because you don’t understand some of his moves doesn’t make him wrong. You only see 1/3 of the chessboard.
Defenestrator: Grow up will you? You are on a site whose major population is under 21, yet I see that your 28. It is pitiful to see a 30 year old MAN making spiteful comments to teenage boys.
Defenestrator: “The funny thing is that half of you tools probably aren't old enough to vote. The other half probably aren't smart enough, but I guess that never stopped anybody.”
What you have to get is, your 30! Act like an adult, I have seen 13 year olds on TDC making more sophisticated comments than you. Stop making your crude comments and get married or something.
And when did ego become a bad thing, I hate all these yogi’s, hippies, and new-age Christians telling everybody that ego is bad, ego improves self-esteem.
And coming from you Defenestrator, one who almost perfectly crafted a sarcastic reply, I would think you would see when others exaggerate.
Muz: I agree with you Muz, war is inefficient, and should be eliminated. But, I think we had better clean up the mess we started in Iraq before we start the War on War.
Steve Zissou: Anne-Marie, do all the interns get Glocks?
War would be strange without all these guns and missiles and camels, don't you think?
Anyways, yeah, Muz you like totally like rocked the crap out of this place with that speech and yes that is quite alot of yelling, but we could use smore, and I think JP like totally ownes you right now DEC, what with the figuring out your a kid and all and the niceness of his argument and all.
BTW Muz, THANK YOU! for saying something about the media! Way back in the day, we all could just go up and meet the people we are going to elect, not just shake his hand. Sometimes it was even like your best friend or something. Now all of them hide behind the cameras with the news crews giving soundbites to make a scandal or somthing, so your not getting to know the offical, really, but the newscaster. So it's kind of pointless to watch the news (News and Tabloids have become one!)
And sorry, I haven't made any games since I've been here, but I've been busy and I keep getting confused and starting over so na! Anyways...
I actually don't think the media casts a good light on the War or Bush. Every time I turn it on it's about "3more soldiers died today", or "still no WMD", and "99% of everyone hates Bush". And frankly, I get sick of the war, sick of Bush, sick of Kobe, MJ, Martha, and I just don't watch CNN anymore.
Gilgamesh: I’m glad you saw that I was trying to hold back my comments about DEC as a person. I found myself deleting slanderous comments about him, although I think a few slipped in the final draft.
Steve Zissou: Anne-Marie, do all the interns get Glocks?
JP:
You can't defeat terrorism by defeating a country. Killing terrorists is like killing smart ants. You bomb the hive, they'll breed somewhere else. You nuke the queen, they'll get a new one. If you destroy the house they live in, it certainly doesn't mean that the ants are gone.
Only difference is that ants don't know the meaning of revenge. The more civilians you kill in a war, the more people are convinced that America (and it's allies) is evil. The more people will think that terrorism is right. However, I think that if Spain pulls their guys outta Iraq, it'll breed more terrorism... coz then the terrorists know that terrorism really works.
Yeah, I stand corrected on the media thing though. They don't go for what the government does. They just get news that people want to hear.
Disclaimer: Any sarcasm in my posts will not be mentioned as that would ruin the purpose. It is assumed that the reader is intelligent enough to tell the difference between what is sarcasm and what is not.
Now, don't think that all media is against the government, some of it is for it. And how do we know that the media isn't just working for the government and the government is all, hey lets first make someone look good, then make him look bad, then when the next guy takes over, he'll look twice as good. Well we may never know but, ah, it's not all that much to worry about.
Terrorism doesn't work. Terrorism is basically just giving someone an opinion or ideal by force. It's nearly impossible to force your opinion on someone. No matter if they say they do, they still don't have to believe it. Anyone can just say something, it takes alot more to believe it. As you can see, after 9/11, america didn't change. People are still just as stupid. But who knows, maybe it's all just a bunch of mish mosh that we shouldn't be messing with.
Sorry this isn't a very strong argument, and I need some sleep. Good night TDC!
I don't think I mentioned a country, but my stance is like this: I think that we have to treat Iraq like a child, and restrain the disobedient brat until he is old enough to compile, vocalize, and think rationally.
We have come very far in a short amount of time, and yet have barely scratched the surface. The problem is people, and even though we still have problems in the USA, it is nothing like the problems in the world.
The problem is compartmentalized information, resources, and lifestyle. We are still separated by physical boundaries, by big expanses of water.
It is inevitable that one day we will all have assimilated into one race. And when race isn’t an issue anymore, hopefully we won’t find something else to bicker about.
Evolution takes time, the dinosaurs had been around way longer than us, but they hadn’t created cars or computers. We have a long way to go, and the first step is to help developing countries contribute to the world.
Steve Zissou: Anne-Marie, do all the interns get Glocks?
Terrorism doesn't work. Terrorism is basically just giving someone an opinion or ideal by force. It's nearly impossible to force your opinion on someone. No matter if they say they do, they still don't have to believe it.
Terrorism is a form of war. As with all wars, it's about forcing people to do what you want. It doesn't matter whether or not you believe in the opinion. And as evolution goes, the people will get bored of resisting and just give in.
I think that we have to treat Iraq like a child, and restrain the disobedient brat until he is old enough to compile, vocalize, and think rationally.
Iraq's like a disobedient brat that's played too much GTA and Counter-Strike and got a free AK-47 from a friend. Sure, you can try to restrain and reason with it, but it's not easy when that child's trying to kill you every time you try to talk with it.
Besides, the fact that the USA blew up hospitals and civilians and stuff doesn't help.
Disclaimer: Any sarcasm in my posts will not be mentioned as that would ruin the purpose. It is assumed that the reader is intelligent enough to tell the difference between what is sarcasm and what is not.
"I don't think you know what Liberalism is, so here is a definition for you:
"A political theory founded on the natural goodness of humans and the autonomy of the individual and favoring civil and political liberties, government by law with the consent of the governed, and protection from arbitrary authority." " Theres what you said. Liberalism. Supposedly it doesn't work according to you.
Oh man, I have never seen a sack of shit this big. I agree with you when you say " people we vote in that have our best interest in mind. ". What if the people are too stupid to choose the better candidate?
The fact of the matter is in order for Liberalism to work you have to be educated, something this country is beginning to lack. If you don't educate the people, then how can we even expect them to elect who we want? We can't. People (you) need to know who they are electing, and the media needs to be unbiased in it's broadcasts so it's solely upto the people.
As for ann coulter. You believe in a lot of what she does and she's a radical bitch. Maybe you need to read that.
Heres a quote by (JP):
"The same reason you don't say you fucked up, he believes that he is doing the right thing, and I will side with him because he is smarter, and has more resources than you. "
Referring to a Mr. George W. Bush. Hey now, c'mon. It wasn't so hard for Bill Clinton to admit he fucked up. Then again, he did lie first. But thats not anything George W. hasn't done! I think He could gain more support by admiitting it, to tell you the truth. His administration is just hellbent on mainting this image that they are always right, which is ridiculous.
Heres another quote by JP:
"What? By making other countries hate us? Sure, but we win in the long run, after we eliminate terrorism."
Yeah, were gonna eliminate worldwide terrorism by attacking one country and acting diplomatically on a few others. What a sack of shit. Terrorism is everywhere, and in case you haven't noticed we have one in the U.S. . It's called the KKK, they tend to hide this, but since the beginning of america they have been bombing, looting , killing, lynching, and more. The KKK has plotted to blow up powerplants before. Why don't we end this? Perhaps because we have former KKK'ers in the gov't, or perhaps cause we don't feel it's a damn threat.
You can't eliminate terrorism in my opinion. Impossible; At least the way were doing it. Read up, the U.S. has aided Osama Bin Laden in the past. Republican President Ronald Reagan aided Saddam Hussien. What the hell were we thinking? We weren't. We've helped grow terrorism at times in this country. Yet all the sudden it's like everyone is afraid of it. Afraid of what? Getting attacked again? By airplanes this time, or a chemical cloud. Notice: the only way to attack America is from the inside. We are attacking terrorist outside.
Why not take the better road and build more security here, at home. Then reform the CIA and FBI, ect. So we can track down terrorists worldwide. We could've even invaded Iraq, no problem. But with a little more than 5 british troops and a japanese to help us. And without all the contracts going to a select few countries. Thats what Im really pissed off about.
(JP)"Your short sightedness angers me. Saying that republicans haven't raised money for the government? The terms are only 4-years, at most they can have 2 terms. Hardly enough time to reap in benefits from long term investments, which the Democrats have been getting the rewards of. "
Yeah. Your saying all the republicans make all the money in investments that just so happen to bloom under democrats terms. Right...
(JP)"I guess you don’t understand why we are in Iraq "
I guess the Iraqis don't either. Most of them tought it was for oil, or to take over. Personally I think it's Georgys little way of doing what his father never did. I understand why. It was to get the WMD's, free the Iraqi people, and rid the WORLD of terrorism. I don't like the way we didn't plan, I don't like the way we've made so many mistakes and are unwilling to admit any.
(JP) "You seem so hypocritical, Bush didn’t create Al-Queda, you seem to displacing all your anger on Bush. The country is using our president as a scapegoat, and that isn’t right. Just because you don’t understand some of his moves doesn’t make him wrong. You only see 1/3 of the chessboard. "
Read Bob Woodwards book. Hey, maybe I can see the entire chessboard for some of the Presidents moves. How about lending contracts to a select for companies including Halliburton? Did I not see President Bush make his move when he said there was lots of WMD's in Iraq? Did I miss something when the Bush Administration said so wonderfully how quick of a war this would be, and how great everything would be.
Look, if your gonna be the President, you ought to be able to back up shit you say. Your suggesting that President Bush can't say somethings cause there classified, or because it's not in the best interest of the country. What could the President be hiding that would disallow me the board? The fact that there are a shitload of terrorists out there? Maybe it's just where the terrorists are.
What your suggesting is idiotic. Maybe I can't see 10% of the board. Maybe thats the most important part. But what the hell could be hiding there? I don't think much more than what we have already seen. I don't think this little war is anything more than how I see it.
How old are you JP? Are you in the OK range to be on this site? By the way, what is that range? Are you just the right age to voice your opinion? Defenestrator has a right to say what he wants regardless of age.
(JP)-"And when did ego become a bad thing, I hate all these yogi’s, hippies, and new-age Christians telling everybody that ego is bad, ego improves self-esteem. "
The problem with ego is when you have to much, you can't tell. People like you.
(JP)"I agree with you Muz, war is inefficient, and should be eliminated. But, I think we had better clean up the mess we started in Iraq before we start the War on War. "
Damn straight. We have to clean it up. But why should I be expected to say how great it was and everything while we do that? I think it should be cleaned up, but why do I have to be FOR bush, or FOR the war that the U.S. is primarily waging? Change the war a little. I can't stress this enough. Internation...INternational...Internation, More Diverse contracts, More control to the IRaqis. Thats it.
(Giglamesh...something or other)
"JP like totally ownes you right now DEC"
-Gayness- No one Owns anyone. Whoever came up with that "owned" thing is gay. I hate them.
JP I don't think what you and I think is so much different. Except the fact that I'm for Democrats, your for Republicans and it's probably always going to be that way. We both want the war in Iraq, just in different ways. We both don't kinda like Bush, but im not sure what you mean.
(JP) "I found myself deleting slanderous comments about him, although I think a few slipped in the final draft."
I suck with words, unless im writing a paper, or have it well thought out. I don't have the time here. A lot of the things Im trying to say are based on evidence, which I can't remember the details of. Im not doing a final draft on any of this. As a matter of fact, I don't even give a damn. I could go all out and spend hours typing in this forum, but truthfully it's a waste of time. And it's a waste of yours.
If you don't care what a 16 year old thinks, then why are you responding?
Nah, Im done with this post. It's to confusing. Too many topics covered, and not enough time. Im gonna go focus on 1 thing like how pissed off I am about there being Former KKK klansmen in our Gov't.
Muz : "Terrorism is a form of war. As with all wars, it's about forcing people to do what you want. It doesn't matter whether or not you believe in the opinion. And as evolution goes, the people will get bored of resisting and just give in."
You know what? Yes!
DEC: "How old are you JP? Are you in the OK range to be on this site? By the way, what is that range? Are you just the right age to voice your opinion? Defenestrator has a right to say what he wants regardless of age. "
I'd say hes in the range, considering there is no range on this site, and seeing as how this is supposed to be considered a family site. So swearing your little head off isn't really helping your views, seeing as though it is against the site rules, and how it makes you look even more like a sniveling litte teenager.
DEC: "The problem with ego is when you have to much, you can't tell. People like you."
Judging by how your speaking, seeing as how your doing it to JP, It sounds like you have more of an ego.
DEC: "-Gayness- No one Owns anyone. Whoever came up with that "owned" thing is gay. I hate them. "
Don't get mad because he ownes you! It really doesn't help calling it gay either, and the founder gay as well. In fact, now I'm forced to believe you are way younger than 16, because calling everything gay is something I'd expect from a 6th grader.
DEC again: "I suck with words, unless im writing a paper, or have it well thought out. I don't have the time here. A lot of the things Im trying to say are based on evidence, which I can't remember the details of. Im not doing a final draft on any of this. As a matter of fact, I don't even give a damn. I could go all out and spend hours typing in this forum, but truthfully it's a waste of time. And it's a waste of yours."
My ol' history teacher has many proverbs that he likes to use. One in particular I'd like to recite for you...
Ahem, "DEC, first you must think before you say something."
It continues
"And then, don't say it"
You see, usually when you try to convince someone that you are correct, you must know what your talking about. If you say, "Oh I know something, your opinions are all wrong" Then they're just sort of going to laugh at you. Kind of like now. And if you don't have the time to be typing up speaches, then why are you trying to convince us that we are wrong in the first place. I'll I've been hearing from you is "Your wrong because of somthing, And I said so too" But you need to be like "Your wrong because of this fact, this and this."
And if your in such a rush to go nowhere, why are you here?
DEC: "If you don't care what a 16 year old thinks, then why are you responding?"
Because we older people have to teach you youngins a lesson.
Uh-oh... Jp's fighting mad and if you cross him, he's going to... look at your user profile and make scathing comments about your age! Ahh!
Okay, so listen: it's obvious from the time and energy you put into this asinine conversation how much you care about impressing upon everyone how brilliant you are, so don't act as though your ridiculous comment about how much enjoyment you get out of it is just some kind of high-minded sarcasm that I'm incapable of following. It's not sarcasm; it's just sad. If you spent half as much time trying to get along with people as you do trying to criticize and intimidate them with what you feel is a superior intellect, you'd be a thousand times better off.
My advice would be to maybe get out a little more and learn to develop a personality based on something other than letting everyone around you know why you're the singular, all-knowing authority on everything. Even if you knew what the hell you were talking about, which you don't, it would still only make you an abrasive jackass. As it stands, you're an ignorant abrasive jackass, which is fine, I guess, if that's what you want to be. You've certainly got plenty of company, but I like to imagine you could probably get a little more out of life than that. Or, I guess you could just sit in your room and bitch on your computer some more about how you're right and cool and know everything about everything.
Hey defenstrator, you are obviously an idiot, because this is an argument. Thats kind of what this general chat if for, for random things and expressing your views and lots of other stuff, smart guy. In fact, everyone should be glad that we actually have an interesting topic on this website. And don't even say anything about JP going into DEC's Profile, he has every right to, just as much as you or me do. It's a thing called "credibility". Showing that DEC is only 16, severly deminishes DEC's "crediblity".
You are sitting there calling all of these people here know it alls! How about you shut the fuck up!? I'm tired of people going around judging people because of stuff they say on things like this! You obviously don't know any of these people well enough to judge any of them like that, and you sure as hell don't know anything about me! Sorry about yelling so much, but that entire post was totally bogus! Calling people ignorant like that.
And Dustin, I believe that Muz said, "Yeah, I stand corrected on the media thing though. They don't go for what the government does. They just get news that people want to hear." Please read before you go and try to bash someone. And you obviously didn't get what we ment by government controlling the media. Please read the part where I stated, "And how do we know that the media isn't just working for the government and the government is all, hey lets first make someone look good, then make him look bad, then when the next guy takes over, he'll look twice as good. Well we may never know but, ah, it's not all that much to worry about." Granted, it's a little far fetched, but how can we all be sure.
Of course Georgey made a mistake with the WMD excuse. He thought that people would still be scared after September 11. He would have been best to go for the liberation theme, but then people would say "Why now? Why not earlier".
Overall it was a war one and a war that changed a country for the better.
And a war that might change the rest of the world for the worse...? Daddy Bush should've got rid of Saddam last time, then we wouldn't have this problem. I mean, soldiers don't do peacekeeping, it was doomed from the start - our soldiers would be known as the oppressors, not the liberators. I can only hope that the number of suicide bombers that enlist from all the crap that happened in Iraq is relatively small...
And what makes this such a moronic topic Dustin? Would you care to tell us? How is it that you can tell that this is a moronic topic without even reading it? Exactly.
Defenestrator, you should practice what you preach. Everything you wrote as an insult to me applies directly to yourself, the difference is that you don't know me, were separated by 2,500 miles of ocean at minimum. I think your post is showing your true character, often what you hate about others is really what you hate about yourself.
"obvious from the time and energy you put into this asinine conversation how much you care about impressing upon everyone how brilliant you are
I don't need to impress anyone, and I sure as hell don't try, we were having a debate.
This comment applies directly to you, except you don't put any time and energy into it. You post pointless shit and think it's funny and witty, but it's not, and everyone is starting to hate you.
If you spent half as much time trying to get along with people as you do trying to criticize and intimidate them with what you feel is a superior intellect, you'd be a thousand times better off
You should try that. I get along fine with the people at TDC, maybe you got the wrong impression between me and DEC because we were debating, but when that’s over, everyone is cool with everyone.
"ignorant abrasive jackass"
Once again, you don't know me or what kind of personality I have, and don't ever call me ignorant. I am pretty damn open minded to anyone’s ideas.
And strangely enough "ignorant abrasive jackass" is exactly how I would describe you.
Your picture of me is strange and distorted, and I think you have some good advice for yourself in that post. You never address the fact that you make short immature posts with no content and a negative tone. It seems to me that you are trying to impress and scare teenage kids with your sarcastic and biting remarks.
Noting the age you "claim" to be, 28, you are very immature, and you certainly get very worked up about what just a couple of kids say. I don't think I should have to be explaining to a person almost twice my age (I'm 16) that he is acting like an unsophisticated jerk. Maybe you lied about your age, so no one would treat you as a kid, but you act like a kid, so it's backfiring.
Now a final piece of advice if you ever want to barge into a forum again.
"If you don't like baseball, get the hell out of the stadium."
So it's up to you, are you going to write a callow reply defending yourself and calling me names, are you going to ignore this message, or are you going to shape up?
Steve Zissou: Anne-Marie, do all the interns get Glocks?
I hope nobody minds, but somebody from the historical preservation society came by and asked if I could make sort of a graphical respresentation of the most boring, inane conversation on the entire freaking internet so that future generations wouldn't have to read this crap in order to understand that nobody here has any purpose in life. Here's what I came up with:
n/a
Pete Nattress Cheesy Bits img src/uploads/sccheesegif
Registered 23/09/2002
Points 4811
4th May, 2004 at 14:13:32 -
Administrative Message: This topic has been locked.
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ill probably be voting in this referendum before the local elections take place. Tony blair makes me laugh but as a PM he's not bad. but labour is crap vote conservative 
Edited by the Author.
