I'm sorry but your healthcare is not the best in the world. You've been told that by your media and since you've never experienced American hospitals you believe it.
My aunt is a missionary to Guiana and they also think they have the best hospital treatment in the world. Don't kid yourself, your not alone in your deception.
I don't want all our hospital's ran by the government. My dad is a commander in the US coast guard and I've been to government run hospitals. They tried to force my mother to take birth control pills. They treat you like a number not a person.
All of our private hospitals treat you the same regardless of gender, race or status/wealth as well. They don't care how much money you have. They are just there to treat you. So that argument is impertinent.
The poor only get poorer because they don't want to work. The one's that can't work get a check from the government already, food stamps, free education, ect.
We have far more than two parties, the dem's and rep's are the only ones that are publicized.
EDIT: Oh yeah something else I forgot to mention, Norway is a whole lot smaller than the US by a long shot. Your population is about that of Massachusetts, so it can hardly be an example.
Like I said in my Edit Norway is a whole lot smaller than the US by a long shot. Your population is about that of Massachusetts, so it can hardly be an example.
Actually about 4/6 of Massachusetts.
Also Norways birth rate is very low. The healthcare system doesn't have to pay for nearly as much as we do. Before you compare yourself to us think on these things.
Well.. If it is actually not comaprable because we're a small clumb of nations, then I guess I do not know.. I can only speak of my own personal experience that it can be a good thing. That looking out for eachother, even the poorest and weakest can be a fullfiling thing. Having empathy towards eachother and everybody working with the same means to a better and more solidary nation is in my head only a good thing.
Alright, I did a little more research into your healthcare, and it seems you are right about it.
Also remember your healthcare system is not obamacare, and it would only work for your country. Remember the USA is a melting pot of many different ethnicity's. And like I said hardly any population growth.
Also concerning your comment about the US no longer being blessed by God. You are absolutely right. America has turned their back on God. We were blessed in the past because we were a predominantly Christan nation.
The one's in control of such a system will always end up being the richest because of human nature. After they are rich then they want control. You'll notice whenever anyone is very rich their next step is to get into politics.
And speaking of government corruption has anyone seen the latest dirt on ACORN, the organization that was supposed to receive something to the number of 5.2 million dollars of bailout money? Well Obama's pet group just got exposed.
Two undercover young reporters took these videos in ACORN offices, the census bureau has broke ties to ACORN and a bill has been passed that won't allow government money to be given to ACORN. Also they are being investigated. Obama used to work for these people.
just because a predominant sector of a country believes in god, it doesnt mean it is blessed by him, or even if he exists. you've got a twisted rhetoric there, and you've got no reason to defend your argument so aggresively... no point in convincing anyone. if you care to argue against this, i'll answer "i agree with you entirely" beforehand.
I know a lot of people for Canada. Never talked about their healthcare to them though.
I wonder.
Besides all of the comparisons to Canada though, and just reading the bill OUR president is trying to pass should give you enough information to formulate an opinion on it.
UrbanMonk, I'm replying against my better judgment, because I know you're probably set in your opinions. But I like to argue, so here goes:
I'm married and own a home. No kids yet. I'm 22 years old and still a full-time student, and work 40 hours a week as an assistant manager at a 17-screen movie theater. Right now I'm making $10.50 an hour. My wife also works 30 hours a week at a major retailer making $7.50 an hour and does about 10 hours of babysitting on the side for a friend and her brother respectively.
Our Combined Income: (40 hours x 52 weeks x $10.50) + (30 hours x 52 weeks x $7.50) + $60 a week x 52 weeks = $36,660 (I live in the mid-west, so this isn't that bad)
Our health and dental insurance: $284 a month x 12 months = $3408 (my math was a little off, but it's 9.2% of our before-tax income). Add to that co-pays, and $1000 deductible each if we get sick, and it's getting expensive.
As for paying more in taxes, I'd be glad to if it meant everyone had access to health insurance equivalent to what I'm already paying for. We're healthy, don't smoke, and aren't fat. Imagine how much worse it is for others to get good insurance.
As for this talk of death panels, I suggest you read the bill. Actually read the pages that talk about the end-of-life counseling. There is ABSOLUTELY NO LANGUAGE that states medical treatment will be given only to those in good health. If I'm wrong, then give me a quote, page number, and a link to the bill so I can read it. I know you haven't.
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You're correct. Obama isn't pulling the troops out fast enough. I certainly don't worship the man just because I agree with most of his politics. The only war we've had any business fighting since World War 2 is the one we're fighting right now in Afghanistan. No country should attack unless in retaliation to attack. Period. Diplomacy should be the only tactic used to police the world. We have far too many problems domestically to be worrying about other countries.
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Regarding GM receiving bailout money. AGREED, BUT they accepted it, so nobody has any right to bitch about how big scary socialist government wants to see it spent.
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Regarding your stance on cap-and-trade: There was a lot of interest being generated in developing alternative fuel sources when gas was $4.00+ a gallon. Miraculously, the oil companies dropped the prices once they saw it coming, and now the demand for alts has dropped off. Maybe the same demand would be generated thanks to cap-and-trade tax. If nothing else, it would help spur conservation, which is a good thing since the planet's resources are depleting at an alarming rate.
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You talk about health care being bad, but new taxes being worse. This is where we have a fundamental difference in philosophy. I would gladly pay double what I currently do in taxes if it meant a better life for not only myself, but all other citizens of our country. I would love to see public health care. I would love to see free or further subsidized college-education and better public schools. I would love to see our infrastructure improved and rebuilt. I would love to see public-access internet (wastes less paper if all business can be conducted online, and does wonders for access to information and collaboration). All of these things benefit the greater good. An educated and connected populace is essential to a thriving society.
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I certainly am not looking for a free ride. I'm looking for a shared ride that is twice as good as any that we're currently on. I'm going to school so that I can do well not only for myself but also for anyone that benefits from my success. Just because one is successful doesn't mean they must also be selfish. By each of his ability to each of his need, or something like that.
--- TO ADDRESS SOME OF YOUR OTHER POSTS AFTER THE ONE DIRECTED AT ME ---
"The poor only get poorer because they don't want to work." :
Really? I take it you didn't notice the widening gap between the salaries of CEO's and the salaries of workers? I take it you also didn't notice that we're still behind the curve when it comes to minimum wage versus inflation and rising cost-of-living?
I agree that those who aren't willing to work don't deserve a penny. But I also agree with the notion that no American that works 40 hours a week should live in poverty. I read a study that showed that people living in New Orleans shortly after Katrina would have to work 130 HOURS A WEEK in order to afford a 2-bedroom rental unit and have an acceptable standard of living.
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"We have far more than two parties" - Technically, yes. But it hardly counts if none of the others can get into power, and at best play spoiler. Although we might have three soon if the Goldwater republicans finally figure out that the Christian-extremist-neo-con right is running the party and their once-noble-if-ultimately-flawed ideals into the ground.
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"Also concerning your comment about the US no longer being blessed by God. You are absolutely right. America has turned their back on God. We were blessed in the past because we were a predominantly Christan nation." :
There is no God. The only people who believe are either too stupid to understand science that completely undermine their fairy-tale beliefs, or are too brainwashed with dogma and fear to escape the church's teachings.
America is still made up of mostly Christian citizens (about 80%). That said, it has NEVER BEEN A CHRISTIAN NATION. The 1st amendment to the constitution clearly states that no law can establish a religion of any kind. (Which we already trample on by printing 'in god we trust' on our money and having the words 'one nation under god' in our constitution).
The Christian-right would have you believe that without God the country will spiral into chaos and sodomy. It's a crock. I'm an atheist (in case you couldn't tell), and I feel like I'm a pretty ethical, upstanding person that looks out for the better good of mankind. It doesn't take an invisible man in the sky to elicit good behavior.
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I don't even want to get into it about ACORN. It's just one of many attempts by radicals within the republican party to delegitimatize Obama's presidency. It holds about as much credence as the birthers (read: none).
ACORN is a very relevant investigation for these resons:
You do realize that Obama wanted to give them 5.2 million dollars of the bailout money don't you? That's the reason people were upset about it. It has nothing to do with people trying to demoralize Obama. Some are using that against Obama because he used to work for them as their lawyer, and he also got a lot of money from them to fund his campaign.
And regarding your comment about God, and being atheist. I'm friends with many "atheists," I put it in quotes because most are not really atheists, they are actually agnostic. You can't make the statement that there is no God because it is impossible to prove a universal negative. Science tells us this. I'll respect a man who says they don't know if there is a God. That being said most atheists are good people, at least the one's I know, but there are people that don't care one way or another about others, and any form of religion that has good morals keeps them in check. ALSO if there was a Christian/"Insert any other religion here" running for president and a atheist running against him/her has better ideas I'm of course going to vote the one with better ideas!
Thanks for your well thought out reply, I'll respond to the rest of it later.
Originally Posted by CGmonkey I have a Bachelor in Computer Graphics at one of the top 3 Universities in Sweden. I recieved around 500$ monthly to do so. No tuition, no scholarship. Sweden payed me to study -- now that's something you can't argue aginst. I'm paying back to society by PAYING TAXES so other people might enjoy the same perks as I've had in University.
I didn't see this edit till today CGmonkey! I also have my tuition completely paid for! Books, Room, Food, ect. The school itself is paying for it. I could've went to many other colleges in the area as well because they all offered me scholarships! At the end of the semester I can sell the books they bought me back to them and get about 250$
That being said how's the immigration laws in Norway. If Obama screws us up I want somewhere to move to.
EDIT: For anyone wondering I'm not a Republican. I'm independent because I vote for whoever has the best ideas. I didn't like McCain either.
While it's true that it is impossible to prove a universal negative, the burden of proof is one the one claiming that something unprovable exists. It's like me walking up to you and saying "I have an invisible pet pig and it can fly!" and then telling you that you're wrong because you can't prove that my flying pig doesn't exist, and insisting that I'm right without being able to provide any empirical evidence to support my claim. Sure, I can't say with 100% certainty that there isn't a god, but there is certainly no evidence to support his existence, and there is a lot of scientific theory to contradict the Bible. Not to mention the internal inconsistencies within the text itself.
Anyway, I look forward to the rest of your reply. I'm busy most of the day, but I'll try to respond in a timely manner once you post it.
I pretty much agree with everything UrbanMonk has said so far and would rather have a smaller government than a bigger one. We can't use the same type of thinking that has got us into this mess to get us out. So throwing money at the situation is not solving anything, but rather delaying the inevitable. I believe that if I earned my money then I should be able to have a say on where it goes and quite frankly giving it to the lower class does nothing, but make the people dependent on the government to bail them out and reinforce the idea that they can continue the same path, not work, and get hand outs. A good example is welfare. I believe the people who do pay their taxes, the hard working middle class, should be rewarded and get some of their money back instead of it being sent off to the people who do not work or pay their taxes.
Government spending needs to be cut back by A LOT. When you are in debt you do not want to make it worse and keep digging yourself in where you can not pay it off. You cut back and if anything stop the bleeding. The unemployment rate was said to reach 8% percent if the stimulus package wasn't passed. It then was passed and based on August the unemployment rate is now at 9.7%. Now I would say that it is not working, but to give the benifit of doubt to those who believe otherwise I will not make a final judgement until the end of the year. With that said, most Americans do not want anymore of the money put into the system, because it is only creating inflation which can be seen by the worth of the dollar decreasing.
As far as a creating more competition for healthcare, the only idea that I have heard and seen as a good idea is having the option to buy healthcare across state borders which can not be done right now. Which means more competition with no need for a government runned healthcare plan, which is always a good thing because anytime the government is involved they seem to mess something up AND it means no raising of taxes in order for the system to be run. Which would have to be done in order for Obamacare to work, and even so, we do not have the money for that and it is possible that it could be the very thing that pushes the country into bankruptcy.
With that said, I believe that the country should be run by the people with the government's involvement being as little as possible. I am not a child nor do I need the government to baby my every need. If you do what you are suppose to do at work and in school, anything is possible and I truly believe that. People who say otherwise also tend to play the main role behind their unfortunate circumstances; however at that point they are in too deep to see the source of their problems being in the mirror.
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Edited by UrbanMonk
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