I just returned from the US. An American man asked my family "Does Sherwood forest really exist?" Last time it was "What part of London are you guys from?" The UK being only comprised of London, Liverpool and Scotland of course
I still cannot understand what the problem is - the whole healthcare plan sounds like it makes perfect sense to me! And all this "i'm here for God" sh*t some of those idiots are spouting... they really need a reality check!
The entire reason the US was formed was to get away from government control. I don't care how the healthcare is run in the UK, Canada or anywhere else.
The council Obama is setting up to decide whether or not you deserve treatment is a group of Czars headed by Ezekiel Emmanuel who is Obama's "Special Adviser for Health Policy."
I want to get something clear here. I don't disagree with creating a new healthcare system. I think it should be overhauled, but this bill is not the one we need!
Originally posted by UrbanMonk Everything Obama's tried to do thus far all involve the government getting more control over people's lives. That's the definition of Communism. http://www.google.com/search?q=define%3A+communism
A definition. That doesn't necessarily say that the definition is correct. And why Communism specifically as opposed to generic socialism?
Originally posted by UrbanMonk The new health care bill has something called "End of Life Counseling" which is basically this. If a person decided to be inadequate to live, instead of getting health care they will be taken to a counselor instead who "prepares them for death."
Originally posted by UrbanMonk I don't want all our hospital's ran by the government. My dad is a commander in the US coast guard and I've been to government run hospitals. They tried to force my mother to take birth control pills. They treat you like a number not a person. All of our private hospitals treat you the same regardless of gender, race or status/wealth as well. They don't care how much money you have. They are just there to treat you. So that argument is impertinent.
This runs under the assumption that all government-run hospitals are and will be the same as each other, and the same as these particular situations, which is not necessarily true. There are regular, non-government hospitals like this as well, I would think. How can you say all private hospitals? Have you been to all of them? Again, you're making hasty generalizations based on arguably few experiences. I've seen plenty of stories on the news about private hospitals not caring about their patients.
Originally posted by UrbanMonk Also they want to store all the medical records in a giant database. More government control means less freedom! yay! Read it in the bill here: http://www.eagleforum.org/links/pdf/HouseDemHealth.pdf#page=58
Oh yeah, and this isn't optional. If anything is requested of you about you for your medical record you MUST give them the information.
How is this government control? What are they controlling exactly, besides controlling you to get your info. It isn't like it hurts me in any way, does it?
Originally posted by UrbanMonk The poor only get poorer because they don't want to work. The one's that can't work get a check from the government already, food stamps, free education, ect.
This isn't necessarily true. They can work all they want but if someone else works harder than them then they get the money, or whatever. This leaves them behind. To be able to compete then they will need assistance and I'm not sure where I was going with this. Not all poor people don't want to work, people just don't like giving poor people jobs.
He's right even if he does kinda stereotype liberals.
Mmm... Yeah, no. This isn't exclusively Obamacare, so don't say that it explains Obamacare. It isn't like you'll suddenly be unable to go to non-government hospitals you know.
Originally posted by UrbanMonk Another reason to dislike the obamacare bill. Forced Vaccinations for children.
http://www.eagleforum.org/links/pdf/HouseDemHealth.pdf#page=838
But which vaccinations are forced? Also I'm not sure where it says that. I think you're citing the wrong pages or something.
Originally posted by UrbanMonk I only assumed you were like most lib's. At least the one's in my family. My fathers brother completely refuses to work. My father has tried getting him a job a couple of times, but he always eventually quits and finds him a girlfriend who will support him. You do realize that under the new healthcare plan you'll be paying for him too right?
I'm starting to notice you like to make assumptions based on the few experiences you've had in your life as compared to all possible outcomes. The liberals in your family are not "most liberals". I don't mind paying for this person because it keeps him alive and letting people die sounds weird.
Originally posted by UrbanMonk IF YOU aren't deemed worthy of receiving healthcare then you don't! Regardless of how much Taxes you pay. Sorry sir Kirby, UrbanMonk is more useful to us so he's getting brain surgery while your left to die. It's in our "Complete lives system" we never told you about! Have a nice day!
If you aren't deemed as worthy as another to receive healthcare then you won't receive it as soon as another under one plan. Because every other plan, government or otherwise, does not just disappear because the government starts offering healthcare.
I'm thinking people are taking that out of context. I think that his subject changes from that specific woman to people and health in general, and it's just about the most balanced option in terms of economic viability to health concern. Isn't that what capitalism is about, economically viable decisions? I'm a capitalist. It's fun.
Originally posted by UrbanMonk The US taxes WILL ALSO cover illegal aliens who don't pay taxes at all under this new bill!
I have the page number on the bill where this is located. Check it out here- http://www.eagleforum.org/links/pdf/HouseDemHealth.pdf#page=170
Again, can't find it. Just copy and paste the words and tell me how you interpret them.
Originally posted by UrbanMonk I want to get something clear here. I don't disagree with creating a new healthcare system. I think it should be overhauled, but this bill is not the one we need!
Elaborate then. Oh yeah, how did the Complete Lives thing come in here?
Now I feel like I have to go analyze everyone else's points.
Malaysia has a health care system that gives free health care to my diabetic grandpa, my crippled mother-in-law with damaged kidneys, my high blood pressure mother, my best friend who had a damaged heart, and another friend who got his leg snapped off. Australia, which has a similar size and demographic to the USA has better health care, privatized, but affordable (even though it doesn't cover dentistry). The USA has horrible health support.. you see people selling off their houses to stay alive.
Almost every other country in the world, including the dirt poor ones have a heath care system that works. Americans, with all their money and smart people can't even get a health system that serves people properly. I don't really care about the excuses they make about why it can't work.. why can't they look at another country where it does work? Are they so arrogant that they "don't care how other people do it, even though it works"? If poor countries with huge populations like Indonesia can serve everyone, why does the USA, the world's only superpower, have to pick who gets health care?
But really now, what else are they going to do with the money? Cheaper fuel prices? Tax cuts for the rich (yeah, the last president did that). Weapons research? Maybe it's better spent searching for aliens? Or searching for Osama? Yeah, avenging 10 thousand victims of terrorism is better than giving health care to over 46 million citizens.
Disclaimer: Any sarcasm in my posts will not be mentioned as that would ruin the purpose. It is assumed that the reader is intelligent enough to tell the difference between what is sarcasm and what is not.
I can see you've all had a healthy helping of haterade. I'd jump in, but I've learned there is really no point in arguing about these things here, of all places. It just stirs up negativity between members.
These threads are always bad news, and never ever accomplish anything.
Here are some quotes from that site with my political analysis :
"Page 30: A government committee will decide what treatments and benefits you get (and, unlike an insurer, there will be no appeals process) Barely True: Section 123 establishes a Health Benefits Advisory Committee that makes recommendations on what types of health insurance coverage will be defined as basic, enhanced or premium. The committee will be chaired by the surgeon general, with members appointed by the president, the comptroller general, and representatives of federal agencies. This committee makes recommendations on insurance regulations, so in that sense it does set standards for benefits. But it does not make decisions about treatments for individuals."
Who do you think that committee is?
Obama appointed a bunch of unconstitutional Czars, one of which is Ezekiel Emmanuel.
Ezekiel Emmanuel came up with this plan for deciding who get healthcare - http://www.ncpa.org/pdfs/PIIS0140673609601379.pdf (Yes I've already said this. Someone please prove me wrong)
Next "proof" that I noticed was this-
"Page 50: All non-US citizens, illegal or not, will be provided with free health care services. Pants on Fire! Section 152 includes a generic nondiscrimination clause, which says insurers may not discriminate with regard to "personal characteristics extraneous to the provision of high quality health care or related services." It says nothing about "non-US citizens" or immigrants, legal or otherwise. In fact, the legislation specifically states that undocumented aliens will not be eligible for credits to help them buy health insurance, in Section 246 on page 143."
Isn't this the same thing they said about illegals getting welfare, but yet they still are. If an illegal passes over the border and has a child in the US that child is considered a citizen so they get money for that child from the government. They WILL be able to earn healthcare credits by having a child in the US. There is no where in the bill that show's a system to prevent this. Same as the welfare system.
Thanks for all the (rather long) replies. I'll read the rest later. I have to go cut my lawn.
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The UK being only comprised of London, Liverpool and Scotland of course 
... oh, wait 
Edited by an Administrator
(Yes I've already said this. Someone please prove me wrong)
