I haven't really followed much of this as I'm not American - but isn't what he is trying to do similar to the health care system here in the UK? As far as I'm aware, children are made to have vaccinations here too. I don't understand what is so wrong with that?
People seem to be trying to come up with any excuses just because they don't want such a big change - you do have enough money, and it will help a hell of a lot of people get the health care they need. Just watch this video and you'll see that the majority of the people protesting don't even know what they're protesting about or why they're doing it.
Also I'm one of those folks who think vaccinations can be bad for children.
(I mean like routine ones, like if there's a plague going around then sure, everybody should get vaccinated.)
yeah I can't spell. I don't think mandatory vaccines would be all that bad. Would be nice to go to school and not be worried about someone else making me sick.
Lots of people/companies/governments have debt - it doesn't mean they have no money.
Also in the UK we just get vaccines for things that spread easily in schools or whatever - you don't get forced to have a vaccine for everything.
Originally Posted by UrbanMonk The poor only get poorer because they don't want to work.
So the reason all those American people who have been laid off and are poor is because they're lazy? How about the fact capitalism exploits the worker and lays him/her off to save on cost effect... It's come to a point where 'change' will have to be practically forced. I say this in the sense that it's the rich companies that pretty much control the world and it's the rich companies that are causing all sorts of problems, particularly that of the environment. Moreover, it's the rich companies that don't give a DAMN about the populace of the world they rely so heavily on. I'm with Kirby Smith on this one.
This century's going to show something big happen; without change the world will certainly take a turn for the worse. By 2030 (although it's been heavily speculated--and in some cases proven--to be even earlier than that!) it is believed that the abundance of fossil fuels will have peaked. In other words, we will have used up over 50% of the worlds fossil fuels. Not only is it terrible for the environment, but the way fossil fuels have been used can easily be considered to be a HUGE waste of such a valuable finite resource. There ARE alternative ways, many of them in fact, of which save us in wasting gas and oils high energy return for other endeavors. Regardless, gas prices will be rising within the next few years. We need to APPLY THE PRESSURE to look for alternative resources and expenditure methods since, as we have seen, rich companies do not particularly support any type of change that will take away from their precious profit. Too many people think short term, you've gotta think long term man. LONG TERM.
Also, I believe your term of communism needs to be rethought out. There is a difference between it's theory and principles rather than the shit examples history has shown us so far or the warped statements people spew out in fear.
First I want to apologize to Kirby for my incorrect judgment of him.
It was wrong of me to make those assumptions of you, and I respect you alot more for telling me all that.
Once you get out of college though I'm sure you'll be making alot more!
I know a couple in the same situation as you. They are both full time students, and they are having to work small jobs to make ends meet. Once he and his wife graduate and he sets up his dental office he'll be living the American dream!
I only assumed you were like most lib's. At least the one's in my family. My fathers brother completely refuses to work. My father has tried getting him a job a couple of times, but he always eventually quits and finds him a girlfriend who will support him. You do realize that under the new healthcare plan you'll be paying for him too right?
Regarding the "Death Panels" I mentioned: You are technically right, "Death Panels" are not mentioned in the bill; however, the council Obama is setting up to decide whether or not you deserve treatment is a group of Czars headed by Ezekiel Emmanuel, Rahm Emmanuel's brother, who is Obama's "Special Adviser for Health Policy"
Basically the amount of care someone recieves follows these guide lines:
Treating People Equally
1. Lottery
2. First-come, first served
Prioritarianism
1. Sickest first
2. Youngest first
Utilitarianism
1. Saving the most lives
2. Saving the most life-years
3. Saving the most socially useful
4. Reciprocity (paying back people who have "contributed", such as organ donors)
IF YOU aren't deemed worthy of receiving healthcare then you don't! Regardless of how much Taxes you pay. Sorry sir Kirby, UrbanMonk is more useful to us so he's getting brain surgery while your left to die. It's in our "Complete lives system" we never told you about! Have a nice day!
You don't have to take my word for it though. Google away!
The VERY fact that Obama is hiding(and I say hiding because these points are too important not to tell) all this from us should make everyone suspicious.
First off the proposed system is one that mimics the UK system. Which works phenomenally well because it encapsulates both options-
If you can't afford to or just choose not to pay for healthcare then you get it funded by the government (in turn funded by taxes). It's not always free either, but it means prescription medicine can be very cheap (£7 for anything that a chemist can supply). If you choose to have cosmetic surgery or non-life threatening elective surgery then you jolly well can! You just have to wait.
OR (and this is the big thing a few Americans don't get)
You go private. With a benefit under this system; due to the "free" nature of our healthcare private healthcare companies are forced to charge less than US counterparts. Competition from a free alternative brings costs down across the board. Nobody is going to be left dying on the street because the whole system will be exactly the same! Infact these people you seem to dislike will die out under what you believe UHC will bring. You and the people you do like will all have paid health insurance so nothing will change there.
"The American dream?"
Oh please. The American system is so fudged up and so benefitial to the people stealing money from hardworking people that when a president comes along who wants to change this whole system to benefit more than the upper nobilities it causes all this fuss. Doctors who are used to charging exorbitant fees along with lawyers and all that.
As for required vaccinations show me a peer-reviewed paper that says they are bad.
Fuel prices getting high in America? Come to Europe. Again this is just America used to having the easy option and now, due to socioeconomic and environmental factors this way of life can no longer be supported.
And just a sidenote. I've been hearing a lot of people saying that access to healthcare is not a "God given" right. Yet they believe it is their right to own guns. Go figure.
Couldn't agree more with you James - thankfully a lot of the Americans who voted for Obama actually understand what he's trying to do. I'm all for people having their opinions - it just annoys me when people base their opinions on lies and facts they don't even understand. Fox News doesn't help by manipulating people to follow their opinions by spreading lies. The people who didn't vote for Obama seem to be trying to come up with all kinds of excuses.
That YouTube video just shows you what the majority of these protestors are like - I personally find it disgusting.
Heh, every country has a real health care system. It most countries, health is a right. In Australia, they actually take good care of sick people, and those same people contribute a lot to society. In America, you only get health care if you have money.
The education system is also ridiculous. It's sad that so many Americans are dropping out of school or making the decision that they can make more money by never going to college. The student loan system is even sadder... it borders into plain usury and I hate that there are guides into getting federal loans.
For the richest country in the world, it sure is cheap. I'm from a third world country and education and health is a right. It keeps sticking to the word 'communism' like it's a bad word. Australia is a highly socialist, very democratic country, and it's excellent here. America is a highly capitalist country and it just fails when it comes to human rights. Ridiculous living prices, low wage, killer interest, high homelessness, high violent crime rates, I don't really see how it could get worse.
Disclaimer: Any sarcasm in my posts will not be mentioned as that would ruin the purpose. It is assumed that the reader is intelligent enough to tell the difference between what is sarcasm and what is not.
The worst I could imagine is an all-out collapse of the US of A, just like the Soviet Union and the Roman Empire did. Yup, they have all the patterns right there, xenophobia, massive rich-poor gap, poor treatment of the lower middle class, more enemies than friends, too much % of budget spent on military, and finally, a war that they can't win.
I find it a little sad that people are complaining when the govt decides to spend a huge portion of the treasury on literally saving lives. A lot of people try to act smart about this stuff, but really, President Obama is a very smart man. The White House has a lot of smart people. They know what they're doing. It's pretty silly to say that they're wrong when most people know nothing about the budget, the govt's spending, or have several years governing a state/country.
Disclaimer: Any sarcasm in my posts will not be mentioned as that would ruin the purpose. It is assumed that the reader is intelligent enough to tell the difference between what is sarcasm and what is not.
It doesn't take a genious to see why the us is still so backwards in many aspects in comparison with most europe countries, canada and so on.
See the people protesting ?
They are all middle to upper class people. I'm pretty sure any of them can afford a health insurance, so they don't need a public health care system, so for them the country's money should be spent elsewhere, in something that would be better suited for their own interests.
There are many families living in awful conditions who can barely afford to get food on the table, let alone buy a health insurance. If any of them gets sick or is a victim of a work accident, the whole family is pretty much done for, and will only survive thanks to the charity of neighbors and associations.
The america dream is a lie, the us isn't heaven, far from it. Being of american ancestry myself I'm ashamed when I see protests like those. They aren't there fighting for the country's interests, they are lynching mob, while some are fighting for their own interests (and not the country's), most people don't even know why they are there. And to the people saying it has nothing to do with Obama being black, that's bullshit.
US has no money for a public health system ?
That's completely ridiculous, where did the money for the iraq invasion, "peace keeping" operations in Iraq and Afghanistan and many other operations we will never hear of come from ?
So there is money for war but not for a public health care system ?
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