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Post Oekaki

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OMC What a goofball Registered 21/05/2007 Points 3516	19th September, 2009 at 18:06:17 - All the better for that sarcastic analogy. What you all see of America is our pop culture and media... and let me tell you it is vulgar. There are certainly selfish stupid people in our country, but you can't expect all of America to be like what the news and TV put out, or what you see in places like New York, California, and Florida. I'm just as disgusted with that as anyone else... Edited by OMC
KetchupMaster! Registered 03/04/2007 Points 9	19th September, 2009 at 18:15:32 - "45,000 deaths a year because people can't afford health insurance. Anyone care to justify that?" You should be the one trying to justify the 45,000 deaths, because with public option we will have even more deaths. I'm the one saying that we had a good healthcare system before, so we should look at it what caused the problems and go back to how we were before. The great economist Ludwig von Mises once said that government institutions create unintended consequences that lead to calls for further integration, and so on into a destructive spiral of more and more government control. As I stated before, we used to have a wonderful healthcare system until the government started getting involved. In the 60s congress excluded health insurance from taxation when purchased by employers, but not when purchased by an individual. This removed money out of the hands of the consumers, and health insurance was paid for by third parties (the employers). So when consumers bought health insurance they didn't look at costs, because they didn't care....their employer was going to pay for it so it didn't matter as much. As a result, doctors started charging higher prices. Congress saw this and they thought they needed to fix this so they created the HMO system, which made things even worse. Now congress wants to intervene yet again to address the problems caused by the HMOs, but just like all the other times it's not going to work. It will just cause a greater market distortion, and the costs of healthcare will go up even more, because the consumers will become even more removed from the money going into the system. Edited by KetchupMaster! n/a
UrbanMonk BRING BACK MITCH Registered 07/07/2008 Points 49567	19th September, 2009 at 18:34:32 - Originally Posted by Yami So who else thinks James just got pwned? You're starting to sound like those congressmen who say that BS about the Consitution being a living document. You can't blame James for what he thinks. Thank his media for his view on this. He's just repeating what they've told him over and over. He's just spitting it back out. So you have to make a decision James, either we're right or your wrong. KetchupMaster is exactly right on all the point's he's brought out. It's not something you can have an opinion on. It's facts plain and simple. Obama's pretty slick, I'll give him that, he's got even the UK fooled. n/a
OMC What a goofball Registered 21/05/2007 Points 3516	19th September, 2009 at 18:40:46 - I'm all for helping out those in need. And don't pretend we're the only ones who have been lied to, anyone and everyone will be fed lies in this day and age, and frankly any day and age! Bottom line: It's none of the government's darned business. The more we clamor for it to control, the less we can do without it, and the more lost we are when it collapses. And it will collapse, if only because the rest of the world is so intent on it happening. Now quit crapping on my country. Edited by OMC
KetchupMaster! Registered 03/04/2007 Points 9	19th September, 2009 at 18:54:38 - Originally Posted by marky_2 Everyone deserves free health care. There is no such thing as free health care (besides doctors doing charity work). Any system run by the government is going to be paid for by the people one way or another. Either higher taxes, higher inflation, or higher deficits. Edited by KetchupMaster! n/a
markno2 Registered 06/06/2006 Points 865	19th September, 2009 at 20:18:28 - Originally Posted by UrbanMonk Originally Posted by Yami So who else thinks James just got pwned? You're starting to sound like those congressmen who say that BS about the Consitution being a living document. You can't blame James for what he thinks. Thank his media for his view on this. He's just repeating what they've told him over and over. He's just spitting it back out. So you have to make a decision James, either we're right or your wrong. See? Typical American arrogance. Why waste time rationalizing with them when you're just going to get shot back at with responses like this, anyway? Discarded pizza boxes are an indispensable source of cheese.
UrbanMonk BRING BACK MITCH Registered 07/07/2008 Points 49567	19th September, 2009 at 20:29:00 - Yes that was a bit low of me to attack James on a personal level. I just get upset when so many people believe what Obama is saying. I sometimes wonder if Obama even believes these things himself or if he really isn't coming up with these ideas. I'm all for changing the healthcare system, but by change I mean getting rid of Goverment interference with or exchange of goods and services. Which includes healthcare. There was a time when prices for healthcare was low as KetchupMaster said: "The system we have today in the US is no doubt highly flawed...but why? You have to look at the simple economics of the situation. The government caused the problems in the 70s when they created the system of HMOs and corporate medicine that we have today. This caused health care costs to spiral out of control by removing control over the money going into health care from consumers. This gave people no incentive to look at costs when choosing healthcare so the costs went up and are still going up. If the government gets more involved, prices will increase even more and quality will decrease more. The healthcare system that we have is NOT the result of capitalism, it is the result of government policy." The Government needs to get out of the healthcare business before they screw even more things up. n/a
Ski TDC is my stress ball Registered 13/03/2005 Points 10130	19th September, 2009 at 20:29:13 - you're And this is clearly turning into a "my country is better than yours" war, which is dumb considering all countries have major positives and flaws. Such a waste of time, it's not going to get us anywhere. Oh and by the way "Obama's pretty slick, I'll give him that, he's got even the UK fooled." A lot of Americans thought Tony Blair was a nice guy But yeah, no point in these kinds of arguments Edited by Ski* n/a
UrbanMonk BRING BACK MITCH Registered 07/07/2008 Points 49567	19th September, 2009 at 20:33:06 - Originally Posted by -Adam- *you're And this is clearly turning into a "my country is better than yours" war, which is dumb considering all countries have major positives and flaws. Such a waste of time, it's not going to get us anywhere. Exactly, Thanks Adam. I'm glad we all agree on this point. We need not look at what's going on in the US and think it's the same situation that we're in. Just because a nationalized healthcare system works somewhere else doesn't mean it works in the US. And vice versa. n/a
OMC What a goofball Registered 21/05/2007 Points 3516	19th September, 2009 at 20:41:28 - Originally Posted by marky_2 See? Typical American arrogance. This coming from someone who just called an entire country's worth of people greedy and evil? My foot. Adam is right, all countries have positives and flaws. All people are selfish to a degree, no matter where they live. If I were to start saying such things about other countries I'd be considered a huge bigot. But hey, since we're all on the America Sucks wagon, we can say what we want about it. Who's-More-Arrogant arguments are positively absurd and hilariously hypocritical, but you've got to realize how that sounded. What would you say if I told you your entire country sucked and was stupid and there was no hope for it? Ok, so now I've expressed my frustration at the irrelevant and unfair portion of this discussion, I think I'll butt out again. I have tater tots to make. Edited by OMC
UrbanMonk BRING BACK MITCH Registered 07/07/2008 Points 49567	19th September, 2009 at 20:47:41 - Originally Posted by marky_2 All Americans are greedy and evil, all they do is hate each other. America is sliding backwards and becoming a third world country. I somehow don't believe he actually meant that. He might have just been being sarcastic. That's what I got out of it anyway. So I wouldn't take that to heart. n/a
OMC What a goofball Registered 21/05/2007 Points 3516	19th September, 2009 at 20:50:33 - I thought he was at first too, (Hence the monocle comment. The monocomlement) but now I think it was more of a trap. Regardless, my previous post is directed at everyone who just jumped in to hate on America. For the record, I do think America needs help and a lot of people have a selfish problem. It's just that I'd prefer we weren't all condemned at once. Also, I might like to add that I'm not trying to be a stubborn fart or offend anyone. This is why I hate these threads. Because I get pulled in and feel like I'm being mean. Edited by OMC
KetchupMaster! Registered 03/04/2007 Points 9	19th September, 2009 at 21:00:20 - I think the selfishness is also part an issue of government being involved. People think, "oh we don't need to donate to charities, cause the government will take care of the poor people". If the government wasn't going to try to take care poor people and the government didn't tax us so excessively, people would probably feel more obligated to donate to private charities. n/a
OMC What a goofball Registered 21/05/2007 Points 3516	19th September, 2009 at 21:12:20 - Selfishness is what causes us to want the government to take care of everything for us, (and also for people in power to want to expand the government) I wouldn't say it's the other way around. Though they do kind of egg each other on. Like the electric and magnetic fields that make up light. Selfishness is just the product of selfishness. It's a trait that we all share, and something that a lot of people haven't learned to ignore as best they can. What caused THAT is a whole different explosion of opinions and yadda yadda bla bla bla I had a lot typed out addressing things brought up about universal health care. I don't want to plague you all with it, (that and I'm ready to go about doing more useful things than watching this thread) but really what it comes down to is not that we don't want to help people that need help, it's that we don't want to not have the choice whether to do so, especially under the direction of the government. And even more especially so if some of it is spent on self-inflicted health issues due to purposeful negligence or just plain... stupidity. Edited by OMC
Ski TDC is my stress ball Registered 13/03/2005 Points 10130	19th September, 2009 at 21:29:30 - Can a Canadian or Australian please lock this thread? n/a

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